TIER1 immobilize usefullness

[Lazarus]

I want to talk about the general usefulness of the tier1 immobilize skill.

For the most part almost no one has them in their posted builds, and while I agree that for average play tier 1'S are of LITTLE use.

However,..when talking bout AV'S and GM'S immobilize then become ALOT more useful, especially where "PTOD" is concerned.

SO if you plan on tackling the big boys do you take the tier 1,..do you PROC. it out?

THOUGHTS? 

[oedipus_tex]

It's not a bad idea to take the T1 while leveling up and spec out of it later.

 

The TI1 has the same Recharge and Damage as the T2 Hold. In most but not all cases it does animate faster, so technically it deals more DPA. Just not in most cases enough to justify taking it over the Hold power which is a) a Hold and b) accepts much better slotting. 

 

 

[DorkPhoenix]

I’ve always just seen it as a damaging power, so I always tended to slot it as such. I guess respecing out of it later could be an option but I never saw it as any big drain and the dots can become quite nice with proper enhancements. But then I’m really bot big on number crunching and min maxing. I came to play a hero simulator not a math simulator 😆

[oedipus_tex]

Just now, GeminiJ said:

I’ve always just seen it as a damaging power, so I always tended to slot it as such. I guess respecing out of it later could be an option but I never saw it as any big drain and the dots can become quite nice with proper enhancements. But then I’m really bot big on number crunching and min maxing. I came to play a hero simulator not a math simulator 😆

 

The main reason to take it early is to make a better attack chain, cycling between the Hold and Immobilize. Once you fill that out with better powers and more Recharge to fill in the gaps, jettisoning the Immobilize just makes sense. 

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

The TI1 has the same Recharge and Damage as the T2 Hold.

The overall damage is the same, but the recharge of the immob is half the hold's.

[oedipus_tex]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

The overall damage is the same, but the recharge of the immob is half the hold's.

 

Fair point. I should have caught that, but its been so long since I really messed with it.

 

That gets back to the reasoning of why it's not a bad power to take while leveling up. Later on the Hold recharges so fast and you have other attacks to cycle in there, not to mention your AoEs and other Controller-y duties.

[Riverdusk]

Yep, I always take it on a controller for the damage more than anything.  On a dom I skip them.

[Lazarus]

THX for the replies ,..but without an immobilize,. How do u set up containment on an AV or GM.

IN a long drawn out fight is it worth tanking the tier 1 single target VS the AOE immobilize.

IF so with the 4 second recharge, is it worth slotting proc.'s for damage,...

IF its not worth taking,. then what a power pool attack instead.

 

thx 

[Vanden]

28 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

THX for the replies ,..but without an immobilize,. How do u set up containment on an AV or GM.

The AoE immobs work fine for that, they easily recharge fast enough to get the 2 stacks needed, and they also set up Containment on groups for your APP AoE attacks.

[Coyote]

It depends on the animation time. With procs, my Dark Controller gets about 190 damage out of it... I could do slightly better from an epic blast or Arcane Bolt, but I wouldn't get the Containment, Immobilize, 4 second recharge, etc. Plus, for Dark, the -ToHit, although the other attacks would have some useful secondary effect. So it's worth taking and slotting.

 

Same for Fire, it's a fast animation with good damage, even though it takes 1 fewer damage proc. Chillblain from Ice is fast animation, and takes the Slow damage proc. Entangle and Crush are also reasonably fast, although Plant has such good use for Roots that you might just stick with that, and Gravity has better options for single-target damage. The ones from Electric and Earth are slower, so... I would still take them due to some benefits like being available early and faster recharge, but I can see using Arcane Bolt, Project Will, or an epic blast instead of them.

[Uun]

I like them and take them on all my controllers and dominators. Sets up containment, mag 4 immobilize will stop a boss or AV in one shot, and I believe all of them have -fly (which the ST holds do not). I generally slot them for damage.

[Camel]

I think they are incredibly important on Controllers. They’re available very early and are, in a lot of cases ,  one of your better ST attacks. Sometimes I’ll drop it for an APP ST ranged attack, but they typically do the same damage, don’t immobilize, and are not available immediately.

Edited January 31, 2020 by cazden121

[Erydanus]

The immobilize is Mag 4. It's instant containment on routine bosses while leveling. I simply slot them for damage + procs if applicable and consider them a blast with a great bonus. The damage is on par with the single target epic blast in some pools (some are better). It's a good bread & butter power to have at all levels, though I agree some builds may just not have a need for them.

[Frosticus]

generally take them on my troller, rarely if ever on doms.

I vote for more of their damage to be front loaded though. Often times a huge portion of their damage is wasted and in teams their is little reason outside of AVs to cast them. 

 

edit - except gravity. I dont take it on my grav trollers. Singy will immob them when it matters. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Frosticus

[Coyote]

I use just 1 Thunderstrike in Shadowy Binds, and 4 damage procs. It does more damage, and the great majority of it is front-loaded and doesn't care about Containment. For other Immobs, not all can take that many procs, but if they can... use them. I also hate waiting for the DoT 😞

[Erydanus]

DoTs in general do more damage than direct attacks (in all games and powers not just single target immobs) but there is the tradeoff of waiting for them to finish their sequence. If you overwrite dots, you lose out. But, that disadvantage usually means more damage.

 

Here - not really. Single target immobs do the same damage as single target holds, and they recycle faster. Which means you're actually wasting endurance/potential damage if you spam them on the same target. If you're really good about Immob A Hold B Immob B Hold A type target cycling, you get the max benefit. If you don't … you lose out. Coyote's comment about front loading them with procs makes a lot of sense, even if you're not heavily proccing your build.