Statesman back in the LRSF

[Super Atom]

Can we please get Statesman, or at least a version of LRSF added to oro with Statesman in it? It's just not the same without him.

[Lazarillo]

Honestly, the "continuity" in this game was screwed up so damn hard in the last couple of Issues that were released in the old days that there's probably not much need for consistency.

States and Psyche both are just way more "iconic" than Pitstop and nobody, and the LRSF should be nothing if not iconic.

[Super Atom]

Pretty much this. It's easy enough to accept this was before the events of his death. This SF losing Statesman was a big mistake

[Zenex]

Have states back period would be nice

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Pardon me while I gag.

 

But seriously Statesman was the avatar of a vile rapist of a god. Sister Psyche was a body thief. No matter the attempts at portraying them as good and heroic, the fact is both of these characters are better off dead as neither really represents an icon worthy character.

 

You all dont seem to be aware of one of the more common negative nicknames for coh city of sidekicks, it was the over hyped up characters like States and Sis that helped created that sense in some players.

 

Bad enough CCs are now held at the statue of Statesman in KW. Likely why I barely bother to go attend them to see costumes and read bios now days as I cant stomach the sight of that Tyrant State.

[Haijinx]

Whoa.  Take a step back from the ledge there.  Its just a game ..

[CU_Krow]

28 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Pardon me while I gag.

 

But seriously Statesman was the avatar of a vile rapist of a god. Sister Psyche was a body thief. No matter the attempts at portraying them as good and heroic, the fact is both of these characters are better off dead as neither really represents an icon worthy character.

 

You all dont seem to be aware of one of the more common negative nicknames for coh city of sidekicks, it was the over hyped up characters like States and Sis that helped created that sense in some players.

 

Bad enough CCs are now held at the statue of Statesman in KW. Likely why I barely bother to go attend them to see costumes and read bios now days as I cant stomach the sight of that Tyrant State.

How is Statesman a vile rapist of a god? Or are you making up some random info.

 

1 hour ago, Super Atom said:

Can we please get Statesman, or at least a version of LRSF added to oro with Statesman in it? It's just not the same without him.

I vote no. Leave things as they are with storyline content. Bringing Statesman is going to open up a can of worms that I advocate that the Devs shouldn't stress about.

[Menelruin]

I believe he means Zeus was a vile rapist of a god, and Statesman was his avatar/incarnation. 

[Super Atom]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Pardon me while I gag.

 

But seriously Statesman was the avatar of a vile rapist of a god. Sister Psyche was a body thief. No matter the attempts at portraying them as good and heroic, the fact is both of these characters are better off dead as neither really represents an icon worthy character.

 

You all dont seem to be aware of one of the more common negative nicknames for coh city of sidekicks, it was the over hyped up characters like States and Sis that helped created that sense in some players.

 

Bad enough CCs are now held at the statue of Statesman in KW. Likely why I barely bother to go attend them to see costumes and read bios now days as I cant stomach the sight of that Tyrant State.

please. get off that awkward high horse. Fake outrage about fictional characters is weird.

 

Side note, Sister Psyche didn't body snatch anyone, aurora willingly let her inside. You don't even know the lore you're complaining about.

 

Also Also, City of Sidekicks was the nickname for DCUO, because it was literally a city of sidekicks.

 

41 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

How is Statesman a vile rapist of a god? Or are you making up some random info.

 

I vote no. Leave things as they are with storyline content. Bringing Statesman is going to open up a can of worms that I advocate that the Devs shouldn't stress about.

What? That doesn't even make sense. Its just adding an optional version for people who want to experience the content before it was edited. Sister Psyche TF for example is in oro.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Super Atom
addtional information

[Zenex]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Pardon me while I gag.

 

But seriously Statesman was the avatar of a vile rapist of a god. Sister Psyche was a body thief. No matter the attempts at portraying them as good and heroic, the fact is both of these characters are better off dead as neither really represents an icon worthy character.

 

You all dont seem to be aware of one of the more common negative nicknames for coh city of sidekicks, it was the over hyped up characters like States and Sis that helped created that sense in some players.

 

Bad enough CCs are now held at the statue of Statesman in KW. Likely why I barely bother to go attend them to see costumes and read bios now days as I cant stomach the sight of that Tyrant State.

That seems pretty extreme considering marcus cole statesman and zeus were two separate individuals who both share the same powers given by the well nothing more. 

 

I think they were great characters and dcuo was the mmo which made you a sidekick. 

[VileTerror]

I'm in the camp of "leave 'em dead."  And I add "if anyone deserves to be resurrected, it's Malaise."

 

Granted . . . the Lord Recluse Strike Force getting retcon'd to remove Psyche and States -is- weird to me.  Timelines are fubar as it is, why was it important to suggest that the Lord Recluse Strike Force is something which chronologically takes place -AFTER- so much of the late-period lore, when it was originally written near the beginning?  That's the sticking point of strangeness, to me.  Especially since Lord Recluse's motivation back in the day was "sticking it" to Statesman.  Recluse now has -less- motivation for that Strike Force.

[Sakura Tenshi]

On the note of "Statesman as the Avatar of a Rapist": Well, okay, technically he unintentionally was if you count mind rape. The Well of Furies is kind of a dick like that but Marcus Cole (nor Recluse) thought that would happen, they were just desperately trying to cure Marcus' Mustard Gas poisoning and sought the Fountain of Zeus. Can you blame a guy for lacking a certain amount of foresight into mystical knowledge and not thinking too clearly as his lungs gradually eroded?

 

Otherwise, funny thing about the 'Incarnate of Zeus' or even the 'Incarnate of any god' aspect about being an Incarnate: the devs once said that how one's powers develope as an incarnate are shaped by mental perception mixed with a bit of coincidence. Statesman as the Incarnate of Zeus because he thought he got his powers from the (apparently erroneously named) Fountain of Zeus and he could shoot a lightning bolt, so he figured "oh, I have the powers of Zeus, I guess?", but today's Incarnate of Zeus' was yesterday's 'Incarnate of Thor' or going back further some proto-indo-European lightning God. If Marcus Cole was Japanese and the locale was in Japan, he might have thought he was the Incarnate of Susanoo (and gotten a kickass theme to go with it) and then we'd be arguing he's a crossdresser and a animal abuser. If Statesman had been Indian, he'd probably think he was the incarnate of Indra. And it goes on.

 

So the truth is: Statesman actually has as much to do with classical Zeus as an electric company naming itself "Zeus Electric", and the only thing he truly becomes an Avatar of is the Well of Furies. Which he did not really want. He just wanted to stock coughing up bits of his lungs.

[Super Atom]

44 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

I'm in the camp of "leave 'em dead."  And I add "if anyone deserves to be resurrected, it's Malaise."

 

Granted . . . the Lord Recluse Strike Force getting retcon'd to remove Psyche and States -is- weird to me.  Timelines are fubar as it is, why was it important to suggest that the Lord Recluse Strike Force is something which chronologically takes place -AFTER- so much of the late-period lore, when it was originally written near the beginning?  That's the sticking point of strangeness, to me.  Especially since Lord Recluse's motivation back in the day was "sticking it" to Statesman.  Recluse now has -less- motivation for that Strike Force.

Re-adding it to oroborus wouldn't change anything timeline wise. They'd still be dead, it'd just offer it to those of us who want to do that version.

[VileTerror]

Hell, I'd almost say put the New Recluse Strike Force in to Ouroboros, and bring the original back.

[Sakura Tenshi]

So, I never have done a Lord Recluse Strike Force, and I'm kind of wondering: who did they replace Statesman and Sister Psyche with? Well, obviously Psyche was replaced by Penelope Yin, but, what? The SF is devoid of one of the bigger challenges it could offer?

 

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

So, I never have done a Lord Recluse Strike Force, and I'm kind of wondering: who did they replace Statesman and Sister Psyche with? Well, obviously Psyche was replaced by Penelope Yin, but, what? The SF is devoid of one of the bigger challenges it could offer?

 

Yes. He's just gone and its terrible.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Yeesh, least they could have done was had positron get an upgrade to get a few rad melee attacks, maybe some 'armor' options and boosted resistances and let him be the tank-fender.

 

[DR_Mechano]

21 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

So, I never have done a Lord Recluse Strike Force, and I'm kind of wondering: who did they replace Statesman and Sister Psyche with? Well, obviously Psyche was replaced by Penelope Yin, but, what? The SF is devoid of one of the bigger challenges it could offer?

 

Sister P is replaced with Penny Yin since she now basically fills the roll of Psi controller for the group but...yeah Statesman just straight up isn't there since his official replacement is Positron...who is already there.

 

As Vile Terror mentions the timeline is already FUBAR anyway especially with the whole Incarnates things (you do the aftermath arcs before you get to do the arcs and trials that lead into said aftermath...) and it is kind of obvious that the LRSF and STF aren't meant to be 'current timeline' so why Statesman and Sister P needed to be removed from the LRSF I'll never know. That would be like removing Mariah Jenkins arc because all the Praetorian signature villains are all either dead, fled or working with other people now (By my count only Praetor White is a major player out of the Praetorians left, Mother Mayhem technically is but actually isn't since it's Aurora back in charge of her own body). We never learn the fate of Praetor Duncan aka Dominatrix who is supposedly consumed by MoT but then so were a lot of heroes throughout that arc and were freed at the end of it (Ice Mistral spent waaaay longer inside Mot and came back) so she just sort of disappears. 

 

Battle Maiden is now working with Malta and was supposed to lead into a new Incarnate improved Malta plus I imagine her female warriors would take the place of the Knives of Artemis in a sub group.  But that was, like much of the stuff before sunset, left unfinished.

 

Unfortunately it was the case that the writer who was doing all the Praetorian stuff left the company and people were just "meh, tired of Praetorians, moving on..." with tons of threads left hanging which had no real lead in to the next batch of Incarnate trials. You see this all over the game with threads left often hanging with no satsifying conclusion because the devs moved onto the 'new hotness'.

 

Heck thanks to the shutdown we have TONS of unfinished story arcs that lead nowhere. The Council/5th Column war is clearly building up with Requiem, Reichsman and all the wacky nazi stuff (like Warwolves and Vampyri) on one side and the Council with all their Nictus allies and Praetorian tech on the other (this is what I feel like the war was going to lead up to in order to make the Council and the 5th Column more distinct from each other).

 

Lets be honest most of the devs (if you go back and read their AMA answers after sunset) had a SERIOUS hate on for all of old Jacks characters and used 'who will die' to kill them off and basically strip them out of the game as much as they could, sometimes, in the case of the LRSF unreasonably so.

 

Say what you will at the WoW timeline but at least it's sort of consistent in that as long as you know you're going back in time to Cataclysm, back further in time to Burning Crusade, then slightly forward in the time line to Wrath of the Lich king with a linear time progression from there. In CoH it's like doing Battle For Azeroth when suddenly you're back in Burning Crusade for just one quest and then back to normal again once it's finished.

Edited February 7, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Sakura Tenshi]

and thus, it falls to our new volunteer dev team to try to make sense of it all.

 

Heck a major plotpoint introduced all the way back in issue 12 was Requiem mentioning Cimerora was not his only temporal stronghold, implying he had more throughout history, but that's never brought up.

 

As an aside note, I feel Penelope Yin replacing Sister Psyche in TF terms was okay since Penelope's TF is distinct. Though ironically it does downgrade in one respect by removing the unique Noise Tanks from Psyche's TF.

 

[VileTerror]

Well, it could also fall to -us- to volunteer our time to try and hash out the timeline, as a community.
We just need to come to some consensus on things like "what year is it now?"

[Sakura Tenshi]

35 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

Well, it could also fall to -us- to volunteer our time to try and hash out the timeline, as a community.
We just need to come to some consensus on things like "what year is it now?"

Well, yes that is true too. That said, that last question is an important one. I’d like to find the answers.

[Haijinx]

It was always kind of anachronistic in COH .. look at the cars ... and the cell phones. 

[Chris24601]

At least the HC devs made the New Praetorians aftermath arc available all the way to 50 (I believe on test at shutdown it was to be 35-40) so you don’t HAVE to do it before the Incarnate Trials.

 

This is also why I’d really like to see the “Who Will Die?” arc streamlined into a single arc in the early 40s and a story arc version of the Incarnate Trials done for level 50 with the “New Praetorians” arc unlocked after its completion.

 

In the level band equals passage of time aspect you’d kick off 40 with Statesman and Sister Psyche’s dying and the Freedom Phalanx in disarray. This also puts RularuuWade in the same band that the Shadow Shard is found.

 

If you haven’t already, Tina McIntyre then introduces you to the Praetorian threat in the 40-45 range which continues into Maria Jenkins arc in 45-50 then the Praetorian War arc for incarnates (with the opening contacts for the Excalibur quest and Dark Astoria being introduced at the appropriate points).

 

Completing that arc unlocks the New Praetorians and Last Bastion arcs which effectively close out the Praetorian story.

 

Then combine the Pandora’s Box SSA into a normally accessed arc and make it into the launching pad for any new incarnate content as the Box and the Well are clearly connected and as was said at the end, that energy is now out there in the world so it will eventually pool into new incarnate threats.

 

The Battalion don’t HAVE to be as game shatteringly powerful as intended (i.e. eat the wells of entire civilizations) in this new universe and we can leave concepts

like The Dimensionless out entirely); still a threat, just not one that actually requires creating an Omega slot and essentially saying after we blow up the Dimensionless it’s time to just start over with a CoH2 like the original devs suggested.

 

The point being; the LRSF and MLTF as level 50 events would fit as occurring after States and Sister Psyche died in that case.

 

One thing that I think slightly hampers CoH in this regard is that while it was live they bucked the usual MMO tread by keeping the level cap at 50 and then sending PCs back to interact with things in the older zones meant to represent the past. Then backfilling content that clearly happens AFTER other content to all level bands instead of just as new content at a new top tier.

 

For example, if “Who Will Die?” and the replacement Yin and Miss Liberty TFs and Maria Jenkins arcs were introduced as level 50-60 content in the new Kallisti Wharf zone with all mission doors in the KF zone the progression of events would feel more intuitive I think. Instead its peppered throughout the existing 1-50 climb and zones and even cancels out older events you need to understand the replacement.

[Super Atom]

Timelines aside, this is only a request to add it back to at least oroborus.

[Haijinx]

Just now, Super Atom said:

Timelines aside, this is only a request to add it back to at least oroborus.

This has been suggested before and it seemed popular then.

 

As long as its not some major chore, then why not?

 

Its not like they are dead in all ouro timelines.