Melee AT Roles

[MunkiLord]

33 minutes ago, phocks said:

The majority of Dominator playstyles will intermix melee and range, jumping in and out. Overall though, I think their damage is competitive in most scenarios, but they get a whole bonus control powerset for absolutely free! Or, at least, that's how it's felt in my experience so far. A lot of teams seem to move faster than the need for control could reasonably be appreciated. Might just be mid-level woes, since everything I've heard suggests Doms shift into a 13th gear once you really start factoring in set bonuses.

 

I think Soldiers and Widows are more interesting to compare to, though. I haven't taken any to 50 on HC yet but from my memory, playing a Night Widow was just Stalker But Better (before Stalkers were buffed to the stars, anyway.)

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Yeah Doms don't get shift in to gear until you really get Perma-Dom on them...which can be quite the expense but, apparently, once they hit perma-dom they're basically death dealing machines so I'm told. Admittedly the highest I've got a Dom is level 7...

Yes, with Perma-Dom they can very much be death dealing machines. @nihilii(I think) posted a time with a Fire/Fire Dom in the Pylon thread that is up there with most top end Blasters and Scrappers.

[jubakumbi]

Unlike many of the ATs, the Dominator can play both parts of the 'hold them down while I arrest them' combo...where the Tank might play one Role and the Stalker another...

Perma-dom and boom, no more headshots.

 

Since many of the best attacks are melee, with perma-dom, it's like being a Controller to get the party started, then a Scrapper/Blapper to rip through them.

It almost feels like cheating, TBH.

[Haijinx]

No dispute that dominators, nor blasters are awesome

 

And both definitely belong in melee.

 

But they aren't Melee ATs, and they don't "scrap" 

 

I'd say they Blast.   The Dominator's attack set is basically akin to a sampling of Blaster's Primary/Secondary attacks.

 

 

 

 

[macskull]

3 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Their melee modifier is 1.05 and Scrapper is 1.125, but I don't know how that compares to Blasters or even Stalkers. Dominators can put up big melee numbers, but obviously have less melee attacks compared to the melee ATs. Seismic Smash can do over 1100 damage if all my procs hit. 

Blasters and Stalkers both have 1.0 melee modifiers so Dominators have them beat at a base level, but Blasters get (usually) Aim/BU and Defiance, and Stalkers get BU and crits.

[Snarky]

I had perma doms on live. Still havent got one on Homecoming. Highest was around 30.  Then i alted of course.  Its what i do.  I have 3 built out 50s at this point i am not breaking down.  Invul/dark tank. Ss/invul Brute and Dark/Dark Brute.  When i say built out i mean like near perfect builds.  Which is where you have to go with a Dom. Part of the reason i have not built one is i have learned i know crap about the class and powersets and just joyuosly ran a perma grav/nrg on live as a crazy sometimes useful teammate

[MunkiLord]

12 minutes ago, macskull said:

Blasters and Stalkers both have 1.0 melee modifiers so Dominators have them beat at a base level, but Blasters get (usually) Aim/BU and Defiance, and Stalkers get BU and crits.

Blasters doesn't surprise me, but I had always just assumed Stalkers had a modifier closer to Scrappers. Though I do see how that could cause obvious balance issues.

[Haijinx]

25 minutes ago, macskull said:

Blasters and Stalkers both have 1.0 melee modifiers so Dominators have them beat at a base level, but Blasters get (usually) Aim/BU and Defiance, and Stalkers get BU and crits.

 bu, crit, crit, bu, bu, crit, crit, bu bu .... 

 

Blasters do so more damage than Stalkers.  

 

But stalkers Build Up is not the same as anyone else's. 

 

 

[SwitchFade]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:30 PM, Replacement said:

I would suggest folks consider the difference between roles and methods.  Everyone understands that Scrappers, Blasters, and Stalkers all fill the role of applying the "very dead" status effect to enemies, but they do so differently.  

 

This is fine.  So is hybridization and blurring of the lines.  This is the sort of thing, in fact, that you really cannot get out of any game with a "party finder" mechanism, where you queue for a role and you're expected to only perform in that role. 

 

Short version: I suggest not getting lost in the weeds of labeling, or accusing others of labeling.  We all intuitively know all of this.

Broadly true, but there's something to be said about the degree of this comparison.  Let's say we were to rate the different ATs on a 10 point scale.  The following is made-up numbers to illustrate a mathematical concept.  It is not true or indicative of the real world.

Tanking:

Stalker 2, Scrapper 5, Brute 9, Tanker 10

Damage:

Stalker 10, Scrapper 7, Brute 6, Tanker 2

 

In both cases, the Brute technically falls in line, but the gap between them and the neighboring ATs is distorted.  They should be a 7 for tanking and a 5 in Damage (again, just for this mathematical model that has nothing to do with real performance).

 

General consensus seems to be that while Stalkers and Scrappers can marginally outperform Brutes in damage output, it's broadly not equivalent to the amount of survivability they give up to gain this edge.

 

Cheers

 

 

Method?

 

I prefer the Socratic Method.

 

And cheesecake. I definitely prefer cheesecake.

 

Nerf Regen. And brutes. 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

10 hours ago, Snarky said:

I had perma doms on live. Still havent got one on Homecoming. Highest was around 30.  Then i alted of course.  Its what i do.  I have 3 built out 50s at this point i am not breaking down.  Invul/dark tank. Ss/invul Brute and Dark/Dark Brute.  When i say built out i mean like near perfect builds.  Which is where you have to go with a Dom. Part of the reason i have not built one is i have learned i know crap about the class and powersets and just joyuosly ran a perma grav/nrg on live as a crazy sometimes useful teammate

So last night on everlasting I was on a PI radio team and there was this brute snarky on the team, who face planted more then my dark/bio scrapper, or the battle axe/shield scrapper leading the party, This wasnt one of your near perfect brutes was it? I was Llewellyn Blackwell. BTW if you ever want an ingame mentor for advice look me up;).

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

19 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

The keeping aggro part I find difficult with my Blasters. That's because things either die so fast it doesn't matter, or some lame Brute or Tank steals the aggro. Scrappers do it too, but Scrappers are never lame and everyone wants to be a Scrapper. My Archery/Temp Blaster has Provoke and outside of an all Blaster ITF I ran, Provoke has been pretty useless for me.

Open with a nuke, very hard for even the best tankers to pull aggro off a blasters nuke. Then anything left living you unload your single target rotation which should hit even harder and only maybe a stalker can hit hard enough to steal your aggro typically.

 

Granted a blasters main job is mass minion murder I leave the bosses to the stalkers and scrappers when in fast murder mode. move fast hit hard, and dont look back, if the team is keeping up good, if not even better as it means you are the team and they are the cheer leaders;)

[Crysis]

I’ve never really understood “roles” in this game.  In other MMO’s, there are fairly defined roles and overlap is limited.  In this game, that’s never been the case.  I’ve seen Tankers with high defense and the Medicine pool healing others mid-battle.  That’s definitely NOT their “role” in most other games, but here its entirely possible (and even thematically plausible).  

 

No matter the melee AT I’m playing, my job is to wade into the spawn and hit stuff.  I can almost do it with my eyes closed by simply hitting Tab+Follow keys.  That’s my role.  To wade in and punch stuff.

 

I do the same on my Blasters and Sentinels as well.  

 

 

[Coyote]

30 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I do the same on my Blasters and Sentinels as well.

 

There is a persistent rumor going about, that Sentinels have better ranged than melee attacks. I'm glad to see that it's merely a rumor 😁

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So last night on everlasting I was on a PI radio team and there was this brute snarky on the team, who face planted more then my dark/bio scrapper, or the battle axe/shield scrapper leading the party, This wasnt one of your near perfect brutes was it? I was Llewellyn Blackwell. BTW if you ever want an ingame mentor for advice look me up;).

Oh my!!!!  Yes.  I brand new unslotted SS/Will Brute i alted on. Had a rough day yesterday and just wanted to kick off a new alt. Thanks to that team and one more DFB after i left it was at 17 when i parked it.  
 

since we are in the melee AT thread i would suggest (beg) anyone with ideas on Build concepts for SS/Will to look at the thread i started in Brutes. I talk there a little about what i an thinking and how it will differ from my SS/Invul. (Which Hyperstrike designed, most of my Brute and Tank builds are really mods of his core design. Havent found his Will template yet lol)

[SwitchFade]

24 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Oh my!!!!  Yes.  I brand new unslotted SS/Will Brute i alted on. Had a rough day yesterday and just wanted to kick off a new alt. Thanks to that team and one more DFB after i left it was at 17 when i parked it.  
 

since we are in the melee AT thread i would suggest (beg) anyone with ideas on Build concepts for SS/Will to look at the thread i started in Brutes. I talk there a little about what i an thinking and how it will differ from my SS/Invul. (Which Hyperstrike designed, most of my Brute and Tank builds are really mods of his core design. Havent found his Will template yet lol)

Nerf Snarky. And brutes.

 

Nerf Snarkybrutes. Twice!

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

There is a persistent rumor going about, that Sentinels have better ranged than melee attacks. I'm glad to see that it's merely a rumor 😁

Technically true, but range is so short on Sentinel powers its more like “point blank” range half the time.

[SwitchFade]

9 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Technically true, but range is so short on Sentinel powers its more like “point blank” range half the time.

Let's play a game called...

 

Never have I ever.

 

Here, I'll start,

 

Never have I ever... Point blanked my Sentinel, unless invited.

[Crysis]

12 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Let's play a game called...

 

Never have I ever.

 

Here, I'll start,

 

Never have I ever... Point blanked my Sentinel, unless invited.

I confess I don't know what you are saying here, but on my Fire/Rad/Fire Sentinel, my primary attack chain each spawn is Aim (self buff) + Ground Zero (PbAOE) + Inferno (PbAOE) + Fire Sword Circle (PbAOE).  Fireball, Blazing Blast and Blaze....those are cleanup attacks, usually fired at point blank range against targets that survive the alpha chain.  

 

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

15 hours ago, Snarky said:

Oh my!!!!  Yes.  I brand new unslotted SS/Will Brute i alted on. Had a rough day yesterday and just wanted to kick off a new alt. Thanks to that team and one more DFB after i left it was at 17 when i parked it.  
 

since we are in the melee AT thread i would suggest (beg) anyone with ideas on Build concepts for SS/Will to look at the thread i started in Brutes. I talk there a little about what i an thinking and how it will differ from my SS/Invul. (Which Hyperstrike designed, most of my Brute and Tank builds are really mods of his core design. Havent found his Will template yet lol)

No worries your baby brute was very useful to the team as veng bait;)