Focused Feedback: New IO Sets (Build 4)

[Parabola]

1 minute ago, The Curator said:

On the next patch, both Power Transfer and Call of the Sandman will be changed to 3 PPM, but will not stack on the same power tick.

Would the proc system be helped if each proc had two PPM values - one that took effect when it was slotted in an aoe and another for single target? No idea whether that's even possible of course but might allow for a bit of fine tuning?

[Bopper]

23 hours ago, The Curator said:

Uh, sure? I would like to get more feedback on this before changing the set yet again.

• Preemptive Optimization
  1. Accuracy / Recharge
  2. Endurance Modification / Endurance Reduction
  3. Endurance Modification / Recharge
  4. Endurance Modification / Accuracy / Range
  5. Endurance Modification / Accuracy / Recharge
  6. Endurance Modification / Recharge / Range
• Post-ED: 68.9% Accuracy, 26.5% Endurance Reduction, 91.78% Recharge, 97.49% Endurance Modification, 25.6% Range.

Looks like you didnt get any feedback for the pros of reducing endurance reduction for range. Hopefully this means you can leave it unchanged. 

[WindDemon21]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:42 PM, Jimmy said:

This is a Focused Feedback Thread

• Please note that Focused Feedback threads are heavily moderated to ensure they remain on topic.
  • Any off-topic posts in these threads will be removed without warning.
  • The thread will be locked when no more feedback is required, but you are more than welcome to continue the discussion in a new thread.
• Changes from the previous build will be listed in green.
• Any changes or fixes that are only relevant to the beta builds (as in, not changes relevant to the live version of the game) will be listed in blue.

 

---

 

New IO Sets

•  Synapse's Shock (Endurance Modification, Rare, 21-50)
  • The first of two new Endurance Modification sets with a damage focus, designed to be useful in endurance-draining attack powers.
  • Enhancements: 
    • Endurance Modification
    • Damage / Recharge
    • Endurance Modification / Recharge
    • Damage / Recharge / Accuracy
    • Damage / Accuracy / Endurance Reduction
    • UNIQUE: Endurance Modification / 15% Increased Run Speed
  • Set Bonuses: 
    • 2: 7.5% Movement Speed
    • 3: 10% Slow Resistance
    • 4: 8% Regeneration
    • 5: 6.25% Recharge
    • 6: 4.5% Energy / Negative Resistance + 7.5% Mez Resistance
•  Preemptive Optimization (Endurance Modification, Uncommon, 21-50)
  • An Endurance Modification set with a focus on ally buff abilities that don't require accuracy or deal damage.
  • Enhancements: 
    • Accuracy / Recharge
    • Endurance Modification / Endurance Reduction
    • Endurance Modification / Recharge
    • Endurance Modification / Accuracy / Endurance Reduction
    • Endurance Modification / Accuracy / Recharge
    • Endurance Modification / Endurance Reduction / Recharge
  • Set Bonuses: 
    • 2: 1.8% Max Endurance
    • 3: 1.5% Max Health
    • 4: 3% Toxic / Psionic Resistance + 5% Mez Resistance
    • 5: 3.75% Recharge
    • 6: 3.75% Ranged Defense + 1.875 Energy / Negative Defense

For the first one, we don't really need just run speed bonuses that much for stuff outside of granite armor. Can this unique PLEASE be changed to an end drain resist unique, like 25%?

 

For the second, it says "An end mod set with a focus on ally buff abilities that DON'T require accuracy or deal damage". Yet the set has multiple accuracy values in it. So if it's made for a power that DOESN'T need accuracy, why does the set have accuracy in it...

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

For the second, it says "An end mod set with a focus on ally buff abilities that DON'T require accuracy or deal damage". Yet the set has multiple accuracy values in it. So if it's made for a power that DOESN'T need accuracy, why does the set have accuracy in it...

I believe that is a copy/paste error from the original version (build 1). Accuracy was added when it proved to be more necessary than range. 

[WindDemon21]

On 3/8/2020 at 4:21 PM, firelightx said:

I'm not sure how necessary the endreduc is, for those sets.  Maybe for the damage themed sets, sure, but any powers meant for boosting Recovery/Endurance already come with dramatically low Endurance costs already.

I actually find there to be a general lack of end reduction on the end mod sets. Only Ea has that one end mod/end redux IO and it's not enough for things like heat loss that have a 15.6 end cost. which when you use it when your end is low is a bit of a big cost to drop you, same issue happens with power sink/power drain in elec and energy armors. I can't think of ONE endurance power though that I'd care to put range in. (or have it be needed, like speed boost, does not need it)

[Major_Decoy]

29 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

For the first one, we don't really need just run speed bonuses that much for stuff outside of granite armor. Can this unique PLEASE be changed to an end drain resist unique, like 25%?

 

For the second, it says "An end mod set with a focus on ally buff abilities that DON'T require accuracy or deal damage". Yet the set has multiple accuracy values in it. So if it's made for a power that DOESN'T need accuracy, why does the set have accuracy in it...

We might not need run speed bonuses, but it's definitely thematic for a set named after Synapse and for people who skip travel powers in favor of ninja run or beast run, the run speed bonus is actually appreciated.

[WindDemon21]

14 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

We might not need run speed bonuses, but it's definitely thematic for a set named after Synapse and for people who skip travel powers in favor of ninja run or beast run, the run speed bonus is actually appreciated.

If anything it should at least be a movement speed bonus not just run speed.

 

But also have you ever fought synapse? He likes to use power sink, which is a  end draining ability. Seems to make sense that his IO set would have resistance to that. There are also other means to get run speed bonuses. GOTA alone has a 7.5% run speed (which should also be movement speed also IMO), but there is NO way to get end drain resistance from IOs currently.

[Bopper]

25 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

If anything it should at least be a movement speed bonus not just run speed.

 

But also have you ever fought synapse? He likes to use power sink, which is a  end draining ability. Seems to make sense that his IO set would have resistance to that. There are also other means to get run speed bonuses. GOTA alone has a 7.5% run speed (which should also be movement speed also IMO), but there is NO way to get end drain resistance from IOs currently.

I was excited when it was written as a +15% movement speed, but alas it was a miss-type in the notes. I still like that it is 15% run, which is the hardest thing to cap if you dont take super speed.

[WindDemon21]

On 3/9/2020 at 10:04 AM, Bopper said:

As for 3.75% range defense we typically see, it only shows up in 4 non-ATO sets: a Pet Damage, a Sniper, a Heal, and a Hold. Among the ranged sets (Range Damage and TAoE Damage), currently only Thunderstrike offers ranged defense, and Artillery will do more than Thunderstrike. Offering up 4.0625 Range defense and 3.4375% EN defense.

You're forgetting mako's bite

[WindDemon21]

On 3/9/2020 at 11:17 AM, The Curator said:

When Issue 24 introduced the Procs-Per-Minute system, Call of the Sandman was set to 2 PPM. Because of how PPM works, that means if your AOE takes 30 seconds to recharge, you'll get a 90% chance to hit on every target, making multiple heals extremely likely. This is way too powerful for a single proc. This had not been noticed until now because Call of the Sandman is not a popular set, but Power Transfer brought the problem to light.

 

On the next patch, both Power Transfer and Call of the Sandman will be changed to 3 PPM, but will not stack on the same power tick.

PLEAAASE do not do this for call of the sandman. I can understand the other, but this is the ONLY use for that heal proc for the most part. Almost all sleep powers are aoe except for the single target mind one, and some elec melee attacks. The ONLY use this heal proc in CotS has is in an aoe to have it go off multiple times to heal yourself.

 

Healing only 5% hp every 30 seconds or less on those aoe powers is completely useless.

Edited March 10, 2020 by WindDemon21

[Bopper]

13 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

You're forgetting mako's bite

Thanks. Also forgetting Cloud Senses

[Riverdusk]

Coming in way too late I'm sure, but have to say I'm disappointed neither of the two endurance mod "attack" sets have a damage proc.  Electric blast is known for being sub par on damage, so an extra damage proc would have been very nice.  A run speed boost and a weak heal proc certainly don't excite me any.

[Bopper]

Just now, Riverdusk said:

Coming in way too late I'm sure, but have to say I'm disappointed neither of the two endurance mod "attack" sets have a damage proc.  Electric blast is known for being sub par on damage, so an extra damage proc would have been very nice.  A run speed boost and a weak heal proc certainly don't excite me any.

Keep in mind, this is still an EndMod set that can go into any power (attack, buff, or debuff) that accepts EndMod enhancements. Your proposal would result in some weird interactions if you slot a damage proc in your Stamina, resulting in you randomly taking damage.

 

Instead, you are welcome to only use 5 of the 6 enhancements in the set and use the 6th slot on a damage proc available to one of the damage sets.

[Major_Decoy]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/15984-focused-feedback-new-io-sets-build-2/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-172990

 

Or specifically, a level 50 could grief low level players.

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Major_Decoy said:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/15984-focused-feedback-new-io-sets-build-2/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-172990

 

Or specifically, a level 50 could grief low level players.

Thanks for the link.  Sounds like they did consider it/will consider it for the future.

 

As the dev said, the proc could be set to only trigger on enemies, so that is not really something preventing a damage proc from being in the set.

[csr]

On 3/9/2020 at 8:17 AM, The Curator said:

 

The original AOE Chance for Heal Self proc (Call of the Sandman) had only a 10% chance to trigger. Slotting it in an AOE that hit 16 enemies meant you had 16 individual 1/10 chances to be healed. Triggering multiple heals from a single power activation was rare.

 

When Issue 24 introduced the Procs-Per-Minute system, Call of the Sandman was set to 2 PPM. Because of how PPM works, that means if your AOE takes 30 seconds to recharge, you'll get a 90% chance to hit on every target, making multiple heals extremely likely. This is way too powerful for a single proc. This had not been noticed until now because Call of the Sandman is not a popular set, but Power Transfer brought the problem to light.

 

On the next patch, both Power Transfer and Call of the Sandman will be changed to 3 PPM, but will not stack on the same power tick.

Wait... doesn't the chance to proc get divided by the Area Factor?

 

[Edit:]  Looking over my builds in Mids' the change results in exactly one CotS being left in my 140+ character builds.  Paired with an Entropic Chaos in Mesmerize for a Mind/TA Controller build.

Edited March 13, 2020 by csr

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, csr said:

Wait... doesn't the chance to proc get divided by the Area Factor?

It would. It will require a higher base recharge and assume no recharge in the Sleep power to achieve 90% probability. Assuming a 15 ft radius spherical AoE (modified area factor of 2.6875) and 1s activation time, it would require a base recharge of 72s or greater (assuming no enhanced recharge)

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Bopper

[csr]

44 minutes ago, Bopper said:

It would. It will require a higher base recharge and assume no recharge in the Sleep power to achieve 90% probability. Assuming a 15 ft radius spherical AoE (area factor of 2.6875) and 1s activation time, it would require a base recharge of 72s or greater (assuming no enhanced recharge)

 

 

And the power most likely to have a Heal proc in it (Mass Hypnosis) has a 25' radius.  By my calculation with 5-slotted CotS you'll have about 50% slotted recharge (47.7% in my builds), giving a cycle time of 33s or so with the activation and a 4.75 AF [Edit: This should be 3.8125].  So the proc chance would actually be about 23% [Edit: should be 29%], not 90%.  To achieve 90% the PPM would have to be 8, not 2.  So it's not firing 10 or 11 times (I'm assuming it isn't always hitting 16 targets), but about 3.  Which matches my experience.

 

[Edit:  I believe the AF for a 15' sphere is 3.25.]

Edited March 13, 2020 by csr

[Bopper]

16 minutes ago, csr said:

Edit:  I believe the AF for a 15' sphere is 3.25

I think you quoted me before my edit. I specified modified AF, which applies a 0.75x weight to the actual AF.

 

As for Sleep Powers, I dont know enough by name to even look it up. I was thinking the concern applies more for Electric powers, Like Ball Lightning in Epics, which I believe is 15 ft sphere and 32s recharge. I think that has a 24.6% chance on each target if no recharge enhancements are slotted.

[csr]

17 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I think you quoted me before my edit. I specified modified AF, which applies a 0.75x weight to the actual AF.

 

As for Sleep Powers, I dont know enough by name to even look it up. I was thinking the concern applies more for Electric powers, Like Ball Lightning in Epics, which I believe is 15 ft sphere and 32s recharge. I think that has a 24.6% chance on each target if no recharge enhancements are slotted.

OK... I took a minute to read your post on the PPM mechanics.  I didn't know about the linear adjustment to AF for PPM mechanics (I'd been using ParagonWiki's page).  So Mass Hypnosis would be 4.75 * 0.75 + 0.25 = 3.8125 and the proc chance I had above 29% instead of 23%.

 

So the Call of the Sandman proc will be 50% better for ST and roughly 2 to 4 times worse for AoE.  I can't help feeling the top non-Purple Sleep set is now pretty darn weak.  Which is insult to injury given how little value AoE Sleep has in the current game environment.

Edited March 13, 2020 by csr

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, csr said:

OK... I took a minute to read your post on the PPM mechanics.  I didn't know about the linear adjustment to AF for PPM mechanics (I'd been using ParagonWiki's page).  So Mass Hypnosis would be 4.75 * 0.75 + 0.25 = 3.8125 and the proc chance I had above 29% instead of 23%.

 

So the Call of the Sandman proc will be 50% better for ST and roughly 2 to 4 times worse for AoE.  I can't help feeling the top non-Purple Sleep set is now pretty darn weak.  Which is insult to injury given how little value AoE Sleep has in the current game environment.

Yeah, Sleep is basically a solo build power at this point. With all the damage AoE in the game, I can't find a use for sleep anywhere. The proc might have been the only reason why people would take a sleep power in a team build, but who knows. I honestly never noticed the potential of exploiting a 5% heal until the devs mentioned it. I was clamoring for it to not be unique, even.