Storm Defenders any valid reason for their secondary power nurf

[DrRocket]

It occurs to me why Defenders secondary is 50% nurfed in teams?

 

I can very poorly understand why the defenders were treated so poorly in the damage department at first in live. After all the view of the developers was that somebody had to be buffing and healing the melees since they were up on the face of the baddies and it would not pay that they instead of playing nurses and water boys they would be blasting away while the melee's got killed. So I can in a very sick way understand why their attacks got nurfed.

 

Also to enforce the servitude of the support defender their primary powers could not help them, thus making as dependent on others as possible. Of course the damage nurf and not usable primary for defenders while soloing became a major issue.

 

So ok, I get it, I think its utterly stupid it does not change the fact that it is what it is.

 

The problem that I am truly bringing up is not all defenders are in the heal and buff arena, there are those that focus on the enemy debuff area. Take for instance a Storm defender their primary is set to debuff the enemy and are useless in the heal and buff areas, then add dark and you have the makings of a tremendous support character that renders the teams enemies essentially helpless due to lack of accuracy. Given this why would their dark damage be nurfed, what is the reason, would you want this character to provide as much support as possible?

 

ALso with IOs and Incarnate, does the melee truly needs support at all? My tricked-out tanks and brutes demolished +4 TFs without any support assistance and at no risk, so the model of the tank needing support to survive is long busted, so why not let the defenders get their full damage? Its not like they are needed to "support" anymore.

 

Just a thought...

[SwitchFade]

What's a nurf? 😁

[MTeague]

A dark blasting defender can still provide plenty of support by applying to-hit debuffs against the teams foes.

 

And it's not that a defender's damage output is nerfed on a team, is that it's boosted when they're solo. 

On a team, you go back to the "normal" for a defender.

 

Should this be changed? Arguable. If they boost a Defenders team damage too much, that really undercuts Corruptors.

 

Maybe there's a happy middle?  but on my Storm/Sonic, I've never felt useless on a team. Smart Ragdoll physicis (particularly with KB-to-KD's) and and application of large -RES debuffs is still plenty welcome, whether or not my personal damage count is high. And don't entirely neglect O2 Boost.  It's not super strong but its a fast cast spot heal and comes with a nice End Drain resist and can break a teammate out of some mezzes.  Plus, if you're using the rest of your powers to ragdoll well, you probably don't NEED to be applying tons of big heals.

[Oubliette_Red]

I think of my Support characters as Masterminds with 7 'pets' when on a full team that I can buff to the hilt, while I debuff the enemies so my 'pets' can melt them.

[Grouchybeast]

3 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I think of my Support characters as Masterminds with 7 'pets' when on a full team that I can buff to the hilt, while I debuff the enemies so my 'pets' can melt them.

The pet AI can be really bad, though.

[Black Zot]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

The pet AI can be really bad, though.

 

And that's different from any game/class with minions how exactly?

[AgentForest]

On 3/15/2020 at 12:57 AM, MTeague said:

And it's not that a defender's damage output is nerfed on a team, is that it's boosted when they're solo. 

On a team, you go back to the "normal" for a defender.

 

Should this be changed? Arguable. If they boost a Defenders team damage too much, that really undercuts Corruptors.

There it is.

Defenders are a specialized roll, not a jack of all trades.  They are the strongest support in the game, and their blast sets exchange damage for stronger secondary effects.  For example, Sonic Blast debuffs enemy resistance FAR more on a Defender than on a Blaster or Corrupter.  I think it's actually double the Blaster strength, with Corrupter being somewhere in between, but closer to Blasters.  This is because their job is specialized.  They facilitate a team's ability to win.

In order to make them at least capable of soloing, they gain a damage buff when without teammates.  Not a DEBUFF when on teams, but buff when NOT on teams.  If you want greater damage in a team environment as a support, play a Corrupter.  That's literally their job.  They are a hybrid class.  They support, but they get better base damage, and get crits the lower enemy HP gets.  They are MADE to both support and deal damage.  To make Defenders deal more damage on teams would be to essentially make the Corrupter an obsolete class.

[Burnt Toast]

On 3/14/2020 at 12:57 PM, DrRocket said:

It occurs to me why Defenders secondary is 50% nurfed in teams?

 

I can very poorly understand why the defenders were treated so poorly in the damage department at first in live. After all the view of the developers was that somebody had to be buffing and healing the melees since they were up on the face of the baddies and it would not pay that they instead of playing nurses and water boys they would be blasting away while the melee's got killed. So I can in a very sick way understand why their attacks got nurfed.

 

Also to enforce the servitude of the support defender their primary powers could not help them, thus making as dependent on others as possible. Of course the damage nurf and not usable primary for defenders while soloing became a major issue.

 

So ok, I get it, I think its utterly stupid it does not change the fact that it is what it is.

 

The problem that I am truly bringing up is not all defenders are in the heal and buff arena, there are those that focus on the enemy debuff area. Take for instance a Storm defender their primary is set to debuff the enemy and are useless in the heal and buff areas, then add dark and you have the makings of a tremendous support character that renders the teams enemies essentially helpless due to lack of accuracy. Given this why would their dark damage be nurfed, what is the reason, would you want this character to provide as much support as possible?

 

ALso with IOs and Incarnate, does the melee truly needs support at all? My tricked-out tanks and brutes demolished +4 TFs without any support assistance and at no risk, so the model of the tank needing support to survive is long busted, so why not let the defenders get their full damage? Its not like they are needed to "support" anymore.

 

Just a thought...

You realize Defenders don't just help tanks right? The role of a Defender is still important in many team makeups - especially in TFs. Each Defender primary serves a purpose that if used correctly can help a team - through buffs/debuffs. As for damage... while Defenders have the lowest damage modifier in the game that does not mean that their attacks don't contribute to taking down enemies. It is through their primary and secondary powers that Defenders can turn a mediocre team into true super heroes. 

 

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

while Defenders have the lowest damage modifier in the game

one of - it's higher than Controllers and MMs.