Energy Melee - Does not need

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, siolfir said:

 

• Dual Blades to 50 (Stalker; played Brute + Scrapper versions to lower levels)

Dual Blades is the one set that legit has a "gimmick". It has a branching combo tree that no other set has where you directly need to string Power A, into B, into C in order to function. Why I call this a gimmick directly is two fold:

 

1) Ironically, it is best to straight up ignore the combos to get the best performance out of DB at high level.

 

2) The combos are very finnicky in that its not *immediately* obvious what strings are what without having to look it up, essentially, and due to RNG combos can be dropped which unfairly punishes DB. 

 

These points combined make the combo mechanic here just... messy in my opinion and it's what I think has stained the idea of combos for a lot of folks.

 

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• Street Justice to 38 (Stalker, for CU crits; I also had a Brute but stopped in the 20s)

StJ is much, much more forgiving and free-form than DB. It's gimmick occurs "naturally" in that you have Builders and Spenders. All your powers (that are not spenders) build up meter to boost your finisher of choice, but there is nothing stopping you from using a finisher right out the gate of youd like aside from it not being "as good".

 

DB attacks can be actively bad of you do not use them in a combo by contrast and it requires precise strings with little wiggle room. StJ plays much like any other melee set with the BONUS ability to power up certain moves. The Build Up power also gives you meter right away, and you can spend meter pretty freely thanks to how fast you can get it back.

 

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• Rad Melee to 50 (Brute, on test with a Stalker)

Id rank this one less a gimmick and more just a mechanic, if that makes sense. Getting Contamination is incredibly easy and even passive once you get your Aura to where you really do not have to think about it. 

 

I don't think mechanics where you dont really have to "plan" for it are worthy of being called a "gimmick".

 

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• Psi Melee to 50 (Stalker)

Sort of in between StJ and Rad Melee, Insight just sort of... happens and boosts a few random powers with DoT except for Greater Psy Blade.

 

This one def leans more on the gimmick side unless you are surrounded by targets to get good odds of proccing insight. You can also use Boggle but like... lol

 

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• Titan Weapons at 35 and 50 (Scrapper on test using insta-leveling, thus "at" vs "to")

TW is faster more often than it is slow, as I've gone in depth about before. Like with Rad Melee, its more of a "natural part of the set" and less of something you have to strictly plan out. Granted, optimizing the momentum window is a thing and two powers are locked behind momentum, but given you are in it for 5/6 attacks on average that isn't too big a hurdle.

 

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Water Blast (here and pre-shutdown),

Like StJ, you can gain and spend Tidal Force very easily and naturally, and have the option to use non boosted powers without much penalty than "i could have boosted it", on top of the ability to max Tidal force on demand.

 

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Beam Rifle (pre-shutdown to mid-30s), and

Beam Rifle's mechanic is not much different than having any set that applies a debuff on a single target for you to exploit. 

 

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Dual Pistols (to 50 twice pre-shutdown on Blaster + Corruptor: Swap Ammo counts, right?); 

Swap ammo does count, and ironically id like if it was *more* "gimmicky" when you swap ammo where say, different powers totally change.

 

As it stands tho, there aren't much changes to your game plan aside from the secondary effects of your attacks when you do swap ammo.

 

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plus the fast-snipe changes on Homecoming mean that you can add Dark Blast, Fire Blast, Dark Assault, and Fiery Assault (I didn't have a build that would get unassisted fast snipes before).

Fast snipe being a gimmick is a hard sell given it is a near global thing now. That's like saying having a self heal is a gimmick in terms of how many characters have access to it.

 

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Up-and-down performance is debated for sets like Super Strength (stacked Rage vs double crashes, is it worth it?), for ATs like Dominators (Domination vs not), or using crashing armor tier 9s instead of building for reliable performance through IO sets. Titan Weapons is slow without Momentum but even then it's still comparable in damage to other sets (seriously, the animations aren't that much slower than Rad Melee's single target chain) and it's such a noted outlier with Momentum that a lot of people put up with it (again, I'm not one of them), but for the most part people build and play to remove these variations from the game.

 

But you don't even need to try a specific set for a "gimmick", since they exist all over the place: just look at the redside inherents. Brutes chase Fury as a minigame (and that variable performance has been changed repeatedly to make it more consistent), Stalkers get some control over their critical hits and have Assassin's Focus, and Corruptors can try to manipulate their attack chains to get Scourge to fire easier, usually with mixed results. Those "bland, boring, just do damage" sets gain those gimmicks for those ATs.

 

I think including inherents is starting to stretch "gimmick" a lot since it becomes more and more universal. 

 

Of the sets you mentioned, I'd really only say DB and Psy are the ones with specific "gimmicks" and most everything else are just perks or mechanics. Of those, many could be mostly ignored and still have great effect aside from stance-change powersets, but even those usually have a "neutral" option and just require you running a toggle.

[Super Atom]

Just now, siolfir said:

How many of them played the old Energy Melee? How many of them know nothing other than the current version and want anything else?

Impossible to tell and I'm uninterested in just assuming, I remember old EM though and it wouldn't fix the set. Not to say things other than a mechanic wouldn't but just a revert won't fix anything.

[siolfir]

17 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Fast snipe being a gimmick is a hard sell given it is a near global thing now. That's like saying having a self heal is a gimmick in terms of how many characters have access to it.

 

I think including inherents is starting to stretch "gimmick" a lot since it becomes more and more universal. 

 

Of the sets you mentioned, I'd really only say DB and Psy are the ones with specific "gimmicks" and most everything else are just perks or mechanics. Of those, many could be mostly ignored and still have great effect aside from stance-change powersets, but even those usually have a "neutral" option and just require you running a toggle.

I was considering "gimmick" and "mechanic" as essentially the same in terminology, since even ones you have little to no control over (such as applying Contamination in Rad Melee) cause variable performance based on the mechanics of the set, and the optimal performance would have you changing targets to a contaminated target to get the extra damage. I feel Insight is actually less obtrusive to my gameplay, with the main difference being when I try to fire GPB off so that its forced lockout corresponds with the normal timeout.

 

I also am aware I was pushing things on the fast snipe, but it is one of those "animation change" issues, and I referred to the inherents just to bring up the point that even a straightforward, no-frills set can still have mechanics (thus, "gimmicks" since I was using them interchangeably) you need to worry about rather than the "push button wee" play that you brought up earlier in the thread, which mostly applies only to Tankers.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Impossible to tell and I'm uninterested in just assuming, I remember old EM though and it wouldn't fix the set. Not to say things other than a mechanic wouldn't but just a revert won't fix anything.

It wouldn't fix the set for you. It would for others. The existence of this thread should indicate that to you, meaning you're trying to state your opinion as fact.

[Monos King]

20 minutes ago, siolfir said:

It wouldn't fix the set for you. It would for others. The existence of this thread should indicate that to you, meaning you're trying to state your opinion as fact.

I mean, there are others that share his opinion too. He's just stating his case really. It's sorta how the discussion/debate gets rolling.

 

Don't mind me, my only contribution is that if EM gets ported to scrappers Total Focus gets to crit fully, instead of how stalkers only crits for like 20% dmg or something. In fact, I'd like theirs to also crit fully.

[Troo]

4 hours ago, Super Atom said:

@Troo you keep using imaginary people to support your dislike of a change that you haven't played.

Oh stop.

You've either not read them (even in this thread), you're blind to them, or you simply don't know of what you speak regarding other folks who would like old ET back.

Maybe see the first couple pages of 'Weekly Discussion 68: Energy Melee' or a slew of other threads.

 

If you're asking if I've played Energy Assault, I have. I don't need to say if it's good or bad to be able to say it is not Energy Melee.

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Troo

[BrandX]

I have to disagree on DB's combo system being so terrible.  Yes, the best DPS doesn't even require combos, but it also requires a whole lot of Recharge.

 

Blinding Feint > Attack Vitals Combo > Repeat is easily obtained and good DPS.  Enough so, it allowed me to solo ITF without Incarnate abilities.

 

Yes.  Miss an attack and you lose the combo.  Doesn't matter.  The average DPS still amounts to the average DPS of the set.  Really, losing the end combo extra, just means some people feel bad.  😛

 

Take StJ, people still, for best DPS, use a specific string of attacks.  They don't change them up.  If you miss an attack in the build up, that means that Crushing Uppercut isn't going to be maxed out when you use it, but yet, you'll still use it, as using another builder is just going to mess with the DPS.

 

Now, the part that sucks about DB's combo system, is that it's first two combo's are wasted later on.  That's the terrible part of the set.  Granted, I'm sure they didn't want to give you the best combo early on (they could have!), but it's what makes the set feel meh.

 

Sure, one could take the early combo's for exemping purposes, but you're likely wasting slots/power picks for that.  

[Super Atom]

57 minutes ago, Troo said:

Oh stop.

You've either not read them (even in this thread), you're blind to them, or you simply don't know of what you speak regarding other folks who would like old ET back.

Maybe see the first couple pages of 'Weekly Discussion 68: Energy Melee' or a slew of other threads.

 

If you're asking if I've played Energy Assault, I have. I don't need to say if it's good or bad to be able to say it's not Energy Melee.

 

Not you on EF, the other person who made the dev time comment. 

 

Also, I see the opposition here and everywhere else, even so vocal minority.

 

3 hours ago, siolfir said:

I was considering "gimmick" and "mechanic" as essentially the same in terminology, since even ones you have little to no control over (such as applying Contamination in Rad Melee) cause variable performance based on the mechanics of the set, and the optimal performance would have you changing targets to a contaminated target to get the extra damage. I feel Insight is actually less obtrusive to my gameplay, with the main difference being when I try to fire GPB off so that its forced lockout corresponds with the normal timeout.

 

I also am aware I was pushing things on the fast snipe, but it is one of those "animation change" issues, and I referred to the inherents just to bring up the point that even a straightforward, no-frills set can still have mechanics (thus, "gimmicks" since I was using them interchangeably) you need to worry about rather than the "push button wee" play that you brought up earlier in the thread, which mostly applies only to Tankers.

 

 

It wouldn't fix the set for you. It would for others. The existence of this thread should indicate that to you, meaning you're trying to state your opinion as fact.

It wouldn't fix the set to a lot of people, which is a fact yes. Just like how it would fix it for you is a fact. That's how personal opinions work. What it wouldn't fix objectively is it being out classes in ST and AoE still.

[Troo]

10 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Not you on EF, the other person who made the dev time comment. 

 

Also, I see the opposition here and everywhere else, even so vocal minority.

Ah okay.

 

But opposition? The folks who want to keep a power set are now the opposition..

 

I'd bet that there are more than you think. I would be willing to wager this months Homecoming finances that there are more than regularly active in PVP. Energy Melee was popular.

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Troo

[Super Atom]

40 minutes ago, Troo said:

Ah okay.

 

But opposition? The folks who want to keep a power set are now the opposition..

 

I'd bet that there are more than you think. I would be willing to wager this months Homecoming finances that there are more than regularly active in PVP. Energy Melee was popular.

 

I meant the opposition to my opinion no disrespect. Just as I'm apart of the opposition to your opinion. Yeah of course there is many people who don't comment on all sides. Hence what I mean by vocal minorty. Cant speak on behalf of everyone no matter what.

[Super Atom]

I take issue with the term "purist" because just simply by playing the current version of CoH you're already too far detached to be an actual purist of anything, everything without exception has changed dramatically since launch.

 

I also take issue with "You're forcing your opinions on people" on the forum literally meant for you to push your ideas on people. Theres a correct way to do it, inviting discussion and accepting criticism and a wrong way to do it, yelling at clouds about people not knowing anything and making assumptions about what they do and do not play. I made one of these mistakes earlier and apologized for it myself so it does happen and can be corrected.

[Golden Azrael]

On 9/18/2020 at 8:59 PM, siolfir said:

A decision I despised then, as well. At least Street Justice didn't require as much micromanaging as Dual Blades, but both tried to dictate what order you activated powers to get the best performance out of an unrelated power. Why can't a set have powers that all work well on their own merits? I don't find that idea stale or regressive nearly as much as I find the "add a gimmick to it!" attitude repetitive and bland.

'Despise?'  I guess I don't like Titan Weapons.  A bit like fighting with a giant kipper.

 

Yeah.  EM is a bit bland and repetitive.

 

Dual Blades.  Great set.  Love the combo mechanics.

 

Azrael.

[Mystic_Cross]

On 5/17/2020 at 11:59 AM, Troo said:

Energy Melee - Does not need more multi-target attacks (Aura, Cones, AoE, etc).

Energy Melee - Does not need a combo system or mechanic.

Energy Melee - Does not need to be re-envisioned.

 

A single target AT on SOs that can put out the same amount of damage as a proc'd out incarnate, also not needed.

 

I am getting a little nervous about the 'update' turning into changes or more.

 

My ask has always been singular: Revert the Energy Transfer nerf. Simple and quick.

I disagree with point 1 because I feel that Stun would make an excellent candidate for a 2nd AoE. Whether simply an AoE stun with little-to-no damage or a damaging AoE with a stun component doesn't really make a difference to me personally. An already stun-heavy ST focused set doesn't need another ST power that -only- stuns, but even a stun-only AoE power could be useful in -some- builds and open up additional synergies with other sets at the very least. A largely ST focused set by itself could also largely benefit from having decent AoE crowd control while maintaining minimal AoE damage. It would be a unique niche setting it apart from other ST focused sets without interfering with or changing the focus of the set to an AoE oriented one. Has the added side-benefit of not really mattering one way or the other in PvP too, if I'm not mistaken. (I -could- be very well mistaken though, as I don't PvP)

 

For point 2, stun is EM's mechanic... though somewhat unreliable to the point that most simply forsake it completely to focus on damage, point 1 above would make it reliable as an alternative and frankly, I'd rather not lose EM's unique mechanic. Rather I'd try to build upon it to make it more reliable without compromising the current structure and appeal of the set as a whole. However I'd take your meaning to be that it doesn't need any additional mechanics beyond what it already has, and it definitely doesn't need any kind of combo system or oddball mechanics. If that is your meaning, then point agreed.

 

Point 3 is a bit contentious for me, because if the set is being looked at then there's a good chance that it's already been decided that more than one power needs changing. Nothing you, I or anyone else is going to say will likely change that viewpoint, unless the vast majority agrees that it shouldn't change at all. So far as I can tell, that isn't the case... which means that the best thing we can do going forward is to present a solution that is acceptable to most, if not all parties. There is already a great chance that it's being re-envisioned as we speak, so leaning on the side of outright refusal will likely only end in disappointment. The best option then, is to submit to making a compromise and hope we can come out the other side with what is most desired. Personally I think a little bit of re-envisioning can go a long way, and could be done without compromising the "core" of what makes EM.... well, EM. Personally I'd prefer those who know it best be the ones contributing reasonable ideas for a rework to, well, you know... others who aren't quite as familiar with it.

 

Sorry if that all sounds preachy or whatever... it's late and I'm overtired so hopefully it doesn't come off as d*ck-ish. Not my intent. I'm curious though, how some of you other long-time players of EM would "re-envision" it?.... aside from the quite obvious "revert the ET nerf", which I take is an unmoving pre-requisite above anything else? Assuming that particular change was solidified, what else, if anything would you suggest to tweak or change about EM if you knew the entire set was also going to be overhauled?

 

also, agreed on point 4. 😉 nothing should be that strong on SOs

[Troo]

3 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

Yeah.  EM is a bit bland and repetitive.

 

Dual Blades.  Great set.  Love the combo mechanics.

I'm glad you like the combo moves. This is why it's good to have a variety of sets. There are folks who loathe the predetermined combos in favor on their own patterns which can vary situationally.

 

3 hours ago, Mystic_Cross said:

Spoiler

 

I disagree with point 1 because I feel that Stun would make an excellent candidate for a 2nd AoE. Whether simply an AoE stun with little-to-no damage or a damaging AoE with a stun component doesn't really make a difference to me personally. An already stun-heavy ST focused set doesn't need another ST power that -only- stuns, but even a stun-only AoE power could be useful in -some- builds and open up additional synergies with other sets at the very least. A largely ST focused set by itself could also largely benefit from having decent AoE crowd control while maintaining minimal AoE damage. It would be a unique niche setting it apart from other ST focused sets without interfering with or changing the focus of the set to an AoE oriented one. Has the added side-benefit of not really mattering one way or the other in PvP too, if I'm not mistaken. (I -could- be very well mistaken though, as I don't PvP)

 

For point 2, stun is EM's mechanic... though somewhat unreliable to the point that most simply forsake it completely to focus on damage, point 1 above would make it reliable as an alternative and frankly, I'd rather not lose EM's unique mechanic. Rather I'd try to build upon it to make it more reliable without compromising the current structure and appeal of the set as a whole. However I'd take your meaning to be that it doesn't need any additional mechanics beyond what it already has, and it definitely doesn't need any kind of combo system or oddball mechanics. If that is your meaning, then point agreed.

 

Point 3 is a bit contentious for me, because if the set is being looked at then there's a good chance that it's already been decided that more than one power needs changing. Nothing you, I or anyone else is going to say will likely change that viewpoint, unless the vast majority agrees that it shouldn't change at all. So far as I can tell, that isn't the case... which means that the best thing we can do going forward is to present a solution that is acceptable to most, if not all parties. There is already a great chance that it's being re-envisioned as we speak, so leaning on the side of outright refusal will likely only end in disappointment. The best option then, is to submit to making a compromise and hope we can come out the other side with what is most desired. Personally I think a little bit of re-envisioning can go a long way, and could be done without compromising the "core" of what makes EM.... well, EM. Personally I'd prefer those who know it best be the ones contributing reasonable ideas for a rework to, well, you know... others who aren't quite as familiar with it.

 

Sorry if that all sounds preachy or whatever... it's late and I'm overtired so hopefully it doesn't come off as d*ck-ish. Not my intent. I'm curious though, how some of you other long-time players of EM would "re-envision" it?.... aside from the quite obvious "revert the ET nerf", which I take is an unmoving pre-requisite above anything else? Assuming that particular change was solidified, what else, if anything would you suggest to tweak or change about EM if you knew the entire set was also going to be overhauled?

 

also, agreed on point 4. 😉 nothing should be that strong on SOs

 

 

This is great and appreciate your take even if we disagree.

One thing you may be failing to take into account: Energy Melee was formerly an excellent top tier power set.

 

[Troo]

17 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I don't think mechanics where you dont really have to "plan" for it are worthy of being called a "gimmick".

This is pretty spot on.

 

Thoughts on Kinetic Melee?

[HelBlaiz]

As someone who only ever got to play EM post nerf, I would love the opportunity to play the pre nerf version. I think the devs should revert the nerfs, which seem like relatively quick changes (alter timing on ET to work with Power Thrust's animation and make TF a mag 4 stun again if I understand correctly), then let it loose on the beta server for about a month. Let the numbers and simulations guys do their thing, see how people like the feel of that, THEN look into tweaking everything else, including adding a mechanic if deemed necessary, if/when the set still proves to be underperformed still.

[Super Atom]

7 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

As someone who only ever got to play EM post nerf, I would love the opportunity to play the pre nerf version. I think the devs should revert the nerfs, which seem like relatively quick changes (alter timing on ET to work with Power Thrust's animation and make TF a mag 4 stun again if I understand correctly), then let it loose on the beta server for about a month. Let the numbers and simulations guys do their thing, see how people like the feel of that, THEN look into tweaking everything else, including adding a mechanic if deemed necessary, if/when the set still proves to be underperformed still.

A  part of the set under-preforming isn't about the ST damage in the first place. Your ST output with activation time removed on EM doesn't change a whole lot at the end of the day. The utility part of the set is the main problem. Whirling hands is god awful and stun doesn't do anything worth while. So the set even if changed would literally be Energy Transfer > Total Focus and everything else sucks. EM's utility is stun and it only works on one guy which in a team centric game and even solo play is pretty underwhelming. So if you just reverted ET you'd still have issues with your utility under preforming and your AoE also being bad. 2 bads and 1 good is still bad.

 

A good example is probably Electric Melee. It does AoE amazingly and does -end pretty ok. Even though -end is a widely debated debuff, it still does it pretty well. It's ST isn't the strongest but it's still ok. So you have AoE Amazing / Utility good / ST good.

[Galaxy Brain]

14 hours ago, BrandX said:

Yes.  Miss an attack and you lose the combo.  Doesn't matter.  The average DPS still amounts to the average DPS of the set.  Really, losing the end combo extra, just means some people feel bad.  😛

 

Take StJ, people still, for best DPS, use a specific string of attacks.  They don't change them up.  If you miss an attack in the build up, that means that Crushing Uppercut isn't going to be maxed out when you use it, but yet, you'll still use it, as using another builder is just going to mess with the DPS.

The difference here is in the recovery. For StJ, you just need any 3 attacks to gain enough meter to unleash a full CU, and even at 2 Meter its pretty darn good if you decide to just let it rip or you weren't paying attention. 

 

With Dual Blades, you do not get that buffer unless you miss the 1st part of any given combo, which is usually a fast attack both in animation and recharge. Any other attack in the chain dropping means you have to attempt the whole combo over again, which sucks. There is no "you still get the combo but it's not as good as it could have been" or "oops, quick use another attack and you can finish it!", its all or nothing. Even Psy Melee at least powers you up a bit while you have insight so even if you don't get to "spend" it properly (GSB misses, or w/e), you still got results.

 

2 hours ago, Troo said:

This is pretty spot on.

 

Thoughts on Kinetic Melee?

KM needs help, but its "gimmick" has a decent enough skeleton, the meat just needs work.

 

Spoiler for the next round of melee results, but KM is still bottom of the barrel.  The main issue is how the Stacks of power siphon "work" with the set itself. You have 3 actually great attacks that all animate incredibly fast to build up max stacks in about ~5 seconds, but then all the other attacks are incredibly slow animating to where using them at max stacks means you actually lose stacks by the time its used. So on its own, you end up having to build up damage over time with weak attacks, and then lose the bonus when you try and use your "big" attacks for not much of a benefit that you'd imagine.

 

Compared to a set with Build Up, you get 100% damage right away and then 10 seconds to use it at full effect. Kinetic unfortunately has to not only build up that damage over time, eating into the buff a bit, but then the big attacks you want to be boosted end up not being as spectacular as you'd imagine.

 

What id rather see is either/or:

 

A) Power Siphon stacks last much much longer so once you do build them up, maintaining max stacks is sort of trivial.

 

B) Perhaps different powers give different stacks. Like 1 stack per ~0.5 s of animation or something. 

 

3) The "big" powers get more benefit from PS stacks, sort of like Street Justice where there base stats go up a bit, but having to specifically build up power under the effects of another power would allow you to let them rip one after the other.

[HelBlaiz]

3 hours ago, Super Atom said:

A  part of the set under-preforming isn't about the ST damage in the first place. Your ST output with activation time removed on EM doesn't change a whole lot at the end of the day. The utility part of the set is the main problem. Whirling hands is god awful and stun doesn't do anything worth while. So the set even if changed would literally be Energy Transfer > Total Focus and everything else sucks. EM's utility is stun and it only works on one guy which in a team centric game and even solo play is pretty underwhelming. So if you just reverted ET you'd still have issues with your utility under preforming and your AoE also being bad. 2 bads and 1 good is still bad.

 

A good example is probably Electric Melee. It does AoE amazingly and does -end pretty ok. Even though -end is a widely debated debuff, it still does it pretty well. It's ST isn't the strongest but it's still ok. So you have AoE Amazing / Utility good / ST good.

Then, after the one month of unnerfed EM, we can talk about additional changes.

[tidge]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, tidge said:

Energy Melee simply needs to be the premier single-target attack set. NO GIMMICKS!

 

 

Unless we decide to replace Stun with something else completely (like a valuable toggle, think Conserve Power from the Energy Mastery Epic pool).

 

In many ways it was Stun that caused the Nerf, because of its effect in PVP.

Just quoting myself because my opinions hasn't changed.

 

I've played several of the combo/gimmick sets, and the only one that I regularly go back to is Street Justice... and that's because that's the one I've played that I can basically ignore the combo effect for the entire life of the character (lvl 1 and up). I don't object to other players enjoying the gimmick sets, but in general I don't like having to think about the gimmicks while a character is leveling up (or playing at lower levels).

 

I can definitely see the appeal of a perfectly constructed attack chain on a level 50, even if it still works when exemplared down. I'd like to have a well-performing, simple no gimmick set... like Energy Melee used to be.

[Super Atom]

12 minutes ago, tidge said:

Just quoting myself because my opinions hasn't changed.

 

I've played several of the combo/gimmick sets, and the only one that I regularly go back to is Street Justice... and that's because that's the one I've played that I can basically ignore the combo effect for the entire life of the character (lvl 1 and up). I don't object to other players enjoying the gimmick sets, but in general I don't like having to think about the gimmicks while a character is leveling up (or playing at lower levels).

 

I can definitely see the appeal of a perfectly constructed attack chain on a level 50, even if it still works when exemplared down. I'd like to have a well-performing, simple no gimmick set... like Energy Melee used to be.

It was actually stalkers, AS > ET = dead

 

Also i'm not sure where this gripe about mechanics comes from. Most "Mechanic" sets don't punish you for mindless play, though a guy above already went through and explain that. You'd think coh mechanics were this big mandatory strict thing instead of a off-thing you kinda follow / babies first rotation priority.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Super Atom

[tidge]

10 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Also i'm not sure where this gripe about mechanics comes from. Most "Mechanic" sets don't punish you for mindless play, though a guy above already went through and explain that. You'd think coh mechanics were this big mandatory strict thing instead of a off-thing you kinda follow / babies first rotation priority.

You should feel free to continue to minimize my objections, but my general objections to the mechanic sets include (1) trying to understand the mechanic and (2) getting distracted by the rings around the powers and the extra icons which appear to help me keep track of the mechanic.

 

Energy Melee already has a mechanic (%Stun), but it is nice, quiet, and is playing along without bothering me.... at least not since the Invulnerability set rooted my Inv/EM tank to a single spot while stunned enemies madly dashed all over creation.

[Super Atom]

47 minutes ago, tidge said:

You should feel free to continue to minimize my objections, but my general objections to the mechanic sets include (1) trying to understand the mechanic and (2) getting distracted by the rings around the powers and the extra icons which appear to help me keep track of the mechanic.

 

Energy Melee already has a mechanic (%Stun), but it is nice, quiet, and is playing along without bothering me.... at least not since the Invulnerability set rooted my Inv/EM tank to a single spot while stunned enemies madly dashed all over creation.

I'm not trying to minimize your objection, I'd like to understand it better and to be honest if it's just because you don't want to side eye your buff bar to see if you have enough fun bucks to use a specific power, understandable but as the other posts before me have said, That's not the case with most sets bar Savage/Water/Street/Staff.

 

Using EF as an example, It's a passive thing that can activate randomly when using specific powers or instantly when using TF. It's not something you have to pay attention to, it just kind of happens and you benefit from it.

 

Also quick edit; you don't really have to watch your bar either. When you do trigger the mechanic on -most- sets with a gimmick, your powers highlight.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Super Atom

[tidge]

"Just because you can minimize someone's objections doesn't mean their objections are minimal."

[Super Atom]

Objections

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(1) trying to understand the mechanic

This isn't really something that can be addressed. This is entirely on you to read a quick explanation of a ultra simple mechanic like the ones featured in city of heroes.

 

Quote

(2) getting distracted by the rings around the powers and the extra icons which appear to help me keep track of the mechanic.

EM's purposed Mechanic does not feature any of this, even if you do not see the buff that appears it will just work, there is no multi layering to the buff to keep track of. It appears and it gets used and regardless of what it is used on you benefit from its use.

 

Beyond this i cannot defend the mechanic any further, i cannot answer any concerns you may have. If those answers are not good enough for you, then it is not good enough for you and you owe no further explanation of it not being good enough for you. Discussion is a take and give you can't really let it be a personal insult when someone disagrees with you because they may just be trying to explain their point of view since you have offered yours, when the difference in opinion is clearly a loop though, the only thing left to do is move on.

 

[Troo]

Allow me to take this one

 

@Super Atom When someone says they don't like something, it is not an invitation to get talked into it.

 

Some folks love gimmicks some don't, neither is wrong.

Adding a gimmick to a set that doesn't have one could be wrong.