Energy Melee - Does not need

[Super Atom]

6 minutes ago, Troo said:

Allow me to take this one

 

@Super Atom When someone says they don't like something, it is not an invitation to get talked into it.

 

Some folks love gimmicks some don't, neither is wrong.

Adding a gimmick to a set that doesn't have one could be wrong.

So what you're saying is, people can tell me my opinion is wrong and bad but i cannot reply in defense of it because "Thats their opinion"?

 

I've never once said your opinion is bad and you should feel bad, I have only ever defended my position or commented on someones concern about my position. I've even welcomed change in my own opinion when presented with a strong counter arguement of why they wouldn't like it, i commented exactly "You make a strong point , i can understand that". If you don't like people opposing your opinion or don't want to engage someone in their opinion, don't quote or comment on it.

 

I've also said many times I was open to any and all changes to be tried and discussed.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Super Atom

[Monos King]

11 minutes ago, Troo said:

When someone says they don't like something, it is not an invitation to get talked into it.

Don't know about that one boss. I mean, as a general rule of thumb sure, but not so much on the suggestions and feedback forum where discussion is entirely the purpose. Pretty sure in regards to proposals, talking someone into liking or disliking a thing is what's on most peoples minds when they engage an opposing view. 

 

This isn't like "I don't like chocolate ice cream, and don't try and change my mind." I like something = I think it's a good idea here, and from rallying support from the players to outright convincing the devs, persuasion has a big role here.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Monos King
Typo

[Troo]

@Monos King This is exactly "I don't like chocolate ice cream". In this case, a step further: We tried it, don't like it and had a allergic reaction. (sets with mechanics)

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Troo
removed off topic bit

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Monos King This is exactly "I don't like chocolate ice cream". In this case, a step further: We tried it, don't like it and had a allergic reaction. I'll even got back and make and edit.

 

@Super Atom Tidge wrote nothing addressed to you or your opinion. They get their opinion too, just like you.

They re-posted the same opinion so that the current conversation re-saw their already stated opinion doubling down on mechanics being bad. Inviting pro-mechanics people to engage them to understand/discuss why they don't like them. Just stop dude.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

This is exactly "I don't like chocolate ice cream". In this case, I could take it a step further to say We tried it, don't like it and had a allergic reaction. I'll even got back and make and edit.

But.... You haven't... Tried it.

 

You are dismissing a ghost at the moment.  Who knows what the changes will be, but it would be a shame to prevent yourself from potentially experiencing a positive change and great experience because you are poisoning your own well before it even has any water in it.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Infinitum

[Troo]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

But.... You haven't... Tried it.

 

You are dismissing a ghost at the moment.  Who knows what the changes will be, but it would be a shame to prevent yourself from potentially experiencing a positive change and great experience because you are poisoning your own well before it even has any water in it.

Yeah I can see that out of context. However we're now talking about having tried some combo or sets with mechanics and not liking them.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Yeah I can see that out of context. However we're now talking about having tried some combo or sets with mechanics and not liking them.

You dont like any of them?

[Troo]

Nope.

I really don't like them. Some are truly awful if the player does not leverage the mechanic.

Insta-snipe and insta-assassin strike are about as much as I can stand.

I would love to play Staff but having tried many just the description is a turn off now.

 

If this is the intention for Energy Melee, I just feel that is more than a small adjustment and is no longer Energy Melee but a different set.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Troo

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The difference here is in the recovery. For StJ, you just need any 3 attacks to gain enough meter to unleash a full CU, and even at 2 Meter its pretty darn good if you decide to just let it rip or you weren't paying attention. 

 

With Dual Blades, you do not get that buffer unless you miss the 1st part of any given combo, which is usually a fast attack both in animation and recharge. Any other attack in the chain dropping means you have to attempt the whole combo over again, which sucks. There is no "you still get the combo but it's not as good as it could have been" or "oops, quick use another attack and you can finish it!", its all or nothing. Even Psy Melee at least powers you up a bit while you have insight so even if you don't get to "spend" it properly (GSB misses, or w/e), you still got results.

 

 

Yes, but in the end, the DPS is still the DPS.  The fact that you may not get that added end combo goodness, is purely psychological.

 

You're not always going to get that hold on Crushing Uppercut (and added damage from that third tier combo CU).

 

And having played DB both on live (mained it) and on HC, I never found myself missing the combos all that often.  For those who feel they do, I have to wonder if they just don't have any ACC slotted.

[Galaxy Brain]

15 minutes ago, Troo said:

Nope.

I really don't like them. Some are truly awful if the player does not leverage the mechanic.

Insta-snipe and insta-assassin strike are about as much as I can stand.

I would love to play Staff but having tried many just the description is a turn off now.

 

If this is the intention for Energy Melee, I just feel that is more than a small adjustment and is no longer Energy Melee but a different set.

Staff is literally: Run one of 3 toggles that give you a boost as you attack, and then you can spend the boost on one of 2 powers for AoE or ST goodness if you get the max buff. You can use those 2 powers for "free" if you dont have the max buff as well (and they count towards the max buff!), and after spending the buff you can start earning it again. It is incredibly fluid and something you do not have to think about too much, even less so than StJ.

 

 

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Yes, but in the end, the DPS is still the DPS.  The fact that you may not get that added end combo goodness, is purely psychological.

 

You're not always going to get that hold on Crushing Uppercut (and added damage from that third tier combo CU).

 

And having played DB both on live (mained it) and on HC, I never found myself missing the combos all that often.  For those who feel they do, I have to wonder if they just don't have any ACC slotted.

 

Even with max accuracy / hit chance, there is always a 5% chance that you randomly miss, and within a 3-hit combo there are ~2 chances to just drop it for no reason if you don't count the 1st hit missing. That part stinks just sort of in general before you get to a point where you can just start ignoring combos, but as you level and such it can make it a bit akward.

[siolfir]

8 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Your ST output with activation time removed on EM doesn't change a whole lot at the end of the day.

Actually it changes its relative performance by quite a bit, but somehow that's being ignored to push something different, that as myself and others have stated (albeit not recently in my case), could just as easily go into a different melee powerset while still leaving the "build up {insert totally-unique-really-I-mean-it-nothing-else-does-this-gimmick "mechanic" tracking stat name here} and discharge it through {insert power name or names here}" out of a set that has never had it for the people that don't want them.

 

Also, I didn't add Kinetic Melee to my list of "gimmick" sets that I've played, but since it was brought up as one then I've played it to 50 on a Brute and Stalker pre-shutdown. I don't consider it a gimmick set any more than Claws, Dark Melee, or Super Strength just for having an alternate to Build Up.

[Super Atom]

9 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Actually it changes its relative performance by quite a bit, but somehow that's being ignored to push something different, that as myself and others have stated (albeit not recently in my case), could just as easily go into a different melee powerset while still leaving the "build up {insert totally-unique-really-I-mean-it-nothing-else-does-this-gimmick "mechanic" tracking stat name here} and discharge it through {insert power name or names here}" out of a set that has never had it for the people that don't want them.

You're increasing it's burst damage sure, on a single target. While this could be a first-step in a fix that doesn't involve a mechanic it wouldn't / shouldn't be the final step. Undoing the nerf does not fix the under-preforming issue. It's still a terrible set for AoE , a terrible utility set, and just in general a complete underwhelming set when compared to the other choices. Stun still sucks, whirling hands still sucks, it's side-mechanic of % stun still sucks. It'll still suck.

 

On a side note, I'm basically done arguing about the mechanic not existing previously and those who don't want it changed. To me, that is no longer something -worth- arguing about as it's a personal flavor opinion. If you have issue with the specifics of the mechanic or alternative routes involving buffs/etc I'm game to talk.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Super Atom

[ScarySai]

I find the double standard from the OP to be mildly amusing, given past discussions about game balance.

[tidge]

37 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Staff is literally: Run one of 3 toggles that give you a boost as you attack, and then you can spend the boost on one of 2 powers for AoE or ST goodness if you get the max buff. You can use those 2 powers for "free" if you dont have the max buff as well (and they count towards the max buff!), and after spending the buff you can start earning it again. It is incredibly fluid and something you do not have to think about too much, even less so than StJ.

Energy  Melee is literally: "Punch"... and sometimes "Whirl".

[Galaxy Brain]

Just now, tidge said:

Energy  Melee is literally: "Punch"... and sometimes "Whirl".

EM has the gimmick of a power that drains your own HP

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Nope.

I really don't like them. Some are truly awful if the player does not leverage the mechanic.

Insta-snipe and insta-assassin strike are about as much as I can stand.

I would love to play Staff but having tried many just the description is a turn off now.

 

If this is the intention for Energy Melee, I just feel that is more than a small adjustment and is no longer Energy Melee but a different set.

Unless, of course it plays the same, is improved, has the glowing maglight hands of death - and most importantly is titled Energy Melee  then it will still be Energy Melee. 

[Troo]

52 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

EM has the gimmick of a power that drains your own HP

yeah.. that's a stretch. But you are right the game is filled with gimmicks.

 

The mechanic aspect where play must do x to be able to do y is my least favorite especially if it is less obvious.

 

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Staff is literally: Run one of 3 toggles that give you a boost as you attack, and then you can spend the boost on one of 2 powers for AoE or ST goodness if you get the max buff. You can use those 2 powers for "free" if you dont have the max buff as well (and they count towards the max buff!), and after spending the buff you can start earning it again. It is incredibly fluid and something you do not have to think about too much, even less so than StJ.

As described, that is not fun for everyone.  [edit] While totally respecting that some really like those types of sets.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Troo

[Galaxy Brain]

Not sure what to say to that at this point, as if you boil that down then applying literally any power before using another is about as complex if not more so and we have had that since day 1.

[Troo]

42 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I find the double standard from the OP to be mildly amusing, given past discussions about game balance.

pics or it isn't troo.

 

@ScarySai Point some out and I'd be happy to discuss.

(this is not a challenge to all to try and show my many mistakes or instances of perceived hypocrisy (we all surely have them))

[Infinitum]

 

Now that's self damage.

[Super Atom]

The post that made this register as a "Hot topic" was a train crashing. What a phenomenal metaphor for the suggestion board.

[GM Tock]

Trains, Energy Melee, what's the connection again?

 

Let's get back on track. 😁

[Super Atom]

Just now, GM Tahquitz said:

Trains, Energy Melee, what's the connection again?

 

Let's get back on track. 😁

Energy melee use to hit like a train and doesn't anymore?

 

>_>;

[GM Tock]

That's a start!

[Infinitum]

Just now, GM Tahquitz said:

Trains, Energy Melee, what's the connection again?

 

Let's get back on track. 😁

To be precise it was a train wreck which is where the thread was heading.  lol