Revisiting KM to try countering its flaws V2

[Sovera]

This is a continuation from here. I've decided to move away from Energy Armor to Bio Armor. While Bio is not as strong on a Stalker as on other ATs it is still a nice secondary with two heals, easy endurance management tools, an accuracy boost, a 25% damage boost, and a decent-ish T9.

 

To my surprise I managed to create a Bio framework that manages to reach 40%-ish defense without touching the primary and still have a second Aoe, Afterburner, Parasitic Aura, and d ecent (but not great) Hasten times at 142 seconds. This open possibilities to enhance builds from different primaries with multiple damage procs or seek more recharge.

 

 

 

So basically this is the same as the previous thread. KM has quick attacks but lacks heavy hitters. Taking KM on a Stalker helps with this. KM's light attacks can then be further enhanced with multiple damage procs (at least three, and Smashing Blow has four), and /Bio further pushes this with yet another 25% damage boost. Stalker also has a standard Build-Up allowing for burst attacks unlike Power Siphon that the other ATs get.

 

The crowning piece of the set is definitely Burst who will auto-crit from Stealth. Be it solo or following the Tanker bidding our time and popping BU with Gaussian + Burst on top of the ball of enemies that they created is a great way to kill most minions. The best follow-up, I found, is not to use AS immediately after but to do a standard rotation waiting from Burst to recharge, and only then use AS. This is because there is a very good chance the first use of AS once we have traveled from one pack to the other will trigger Hide which would be better used by Burst if still in an AoE situation.

 

I have been a lazy hog and not yet taken the build to a pylon to test its metrics, but for regular play it has been pleasing mixing fast attacks and multiple damage procs to be a nuisance 'killstealing' from team mates while they swing at corpses.

 

Bio lacks resistances so it is squishy, but two heals, one of them a shield, plus a properly slotted T9, plus carrying a few oranges, is enough on a Stalker who sheds agro like water from a duck's back.

 

 

This is not a leveling build, but if there is interest I can whip one up:

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Stalker
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Quick Strike -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), TchofDth-Dam%(3), GldStr-%Dam(5), ExpStr-Dam%(5), FrcFdb-Rechg%(7)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Body Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg(7), GldStr-%Dam(9), Mk'Bit-Dam%(9), TchofDth-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- GldStr-Acc/Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Hct-Dam%(13), GldStr-%Dam(13), TchofDth-Dam%(15), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15)
Level 6: Assassin's Strike -- SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(A), TchofDth-Dam%(17), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(21)
Level 8: Hardened Carapace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(21), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23), UnbGrd-ResDam(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Hover -- Rct-ResDam%(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 12: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(29), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 16: Adaptation
Level 18: Burst -- Erd-%Dam(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(33), FrcFdb-Rechg%(33)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), GssSynFr--Build%(34), RctRtc-ToHit(34), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 28: Boundless Energy -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-EndMod(39), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(39)
Level 30: DNA Siphon -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(40), Rct-Def(40)
Level 35: Mu Bolts -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(50)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(43), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(43), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(45), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(45)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Parasitic Aura -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(50), Prv-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(27)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Defensive Adaptation
Level 44: Efficient Adaptation
Level 44: Offensive Adaptation
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

Hmm, reminds me I had one of these builds worked up for a friend last year, interesting how close the end numbers ended up between yours and what I had. Wouldn't take more than a quick flip of a couple IO's to put the procs in either. I rarely poke into the Stalker forum so I never saw the previous iteration of what you were working towards, but to share a build that doesn't utilize the flight pool:

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Sun' Ukon: Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Quick Strike -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(17), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 2: Body Blow -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(19), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(34)
Level 4: Hardened Carapace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7)
Level 6: Boundless Energy -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(9), PrfShf-End%(11)
Level 8: Assassin's Strike -- SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Mk'Bit-Dam%(37)
Level 10: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 12: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(13), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(13), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 16: Adaptation
Level 18: Burst -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Dmg(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 20: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal(21)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27)
Level 26: Focused Burst -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: DNA Siphon -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(33), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Water Spout -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(A), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(42), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(48), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(48), Ann-ResDeb%(48)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(39), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Mystic Flight -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(29)
Level 16: Defensive Adaptation
Level 16: Efficient Adaptation
Level 16: Offensive Adaptation
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Rebirth Core Epiphany
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Storm Elemental Core Superior Ally
Level 1: Quick Form
------------

 

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Concentrated Strike was in there for style points if I remember correctly (they wanted it), but obviously could easily be flipped for Smashing Blow. I don't remember what the end ST performance was but it was geared towards taking down targets quick and the person didn't end up liking it because it wasn't "fast enough" for them (but it was still around like 2:00 I think? This was back in ... September '19).

[Sovera]

I've been wondering about my slotting and examplaring and the worth of +5 IOs.

 

Once we exemplar down the stats of a IO are clamped down to 42% to begin with and only then suffer the gradual lowering of stats.

 

 

I did a quick and dirty test using Stutter's TF since it exemps down to 40.

 

 

- With a ACC/DMG IO and a normal damage IO I had 68%, Exemplaring did not change this.

 

- With a +5 ACC/DMG IO and a normal damage IO I had 75% damage. When exemplaring I got 74%.

 

- With a +5 ADD/DMG IO and a purple damage IO I got 84%. When examplared down I got 74%.

 

-  With a +5 ACC/DMG IO and a +5 purple damage IO I got 94%.  When examplared down I got 83%

 

 

So +5 stuff seems useful still. But. With Musculature T4 there is no point in +5 the purple damage IO since we'll be into red ED territory

[Sovera]

One thing I had noticed in the past but attributed to lack of proper slotting is how useless Parasitic Aura is. I am sure that in spreadsheet terms it has value, but in practical in-game terms I have yet to use it and notice it did anything noticeable for my survival.

 

Things such as:

 

- Doing Maria Jenkin's arc against those annoying robots. They do some sort of debuff and stack DoTs. Seeing my HP at half I use Parasitic Aura only to see the shield devoured in seconds and me dying anyway.

- Jumping into the middle of the ambush atop the hill in the first ITF mission. Using Parasitic agroed everything and they all turned on me and I died in seconds.

- Fighting the last boss of the ITF and using Parasitic during the first moments of the fight to it hit the last boss and all his Nictus. It did nothing measurable since the auto-hits chewed through the shield and the regen didn't even recoup my HP noticeably.

 

Basically the squishyness of Bio is stark. Barrier is the real panic button flooding us with resistances and defenses to survive when things get sour.

 

This brings me back to thinking about using /Ice. The loss of the 25% damage is unpalatable but Icy Bastion is a *real* T9 with 30 seconds uptime and one minute downtime that maxes resistances *and* super charges regen without the need for targets.

 

But with Barrier taking the role of T9 (so to speak) Bio is durable and there is no need to lose on the 25% damage.

[Sovera]

Aaaand I finally copied the character to the Brainstorm server to do a pylon test. 2:30 was the average.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sovera

[Force Redux]

I have a Spines/Bio at 50+3, and it's solid. But as I'm already dealing with some long-ish animations on Lunge, etc, as well as Lethal damage, I was curious to try a Kin/Bio, or perhaps a Kin/NRG. Performance aside, Kin's animations are fun to look at (unlike spines, which I find rather uninspired). So I'm reading up and looking forward to your continued observations!

 

If I have time today, I might get my own Kinetic stalker created today. 

[Force Redux]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

Aaaand I finally copied the character to the Brainstorm server to do a pylon test. 2:30 was the average.

May I ask how does this compare to your other stalkers?

[Force Redux]

Parasitic is a very lackluster T9. When solo I find it sleeps the occasional minion, but it has no real impact, as those minions are usually of no threat anyway. Also, being spines, I tend to wake up sleeping minions in short order.

 

I think it might be (marginally) more useful in a ST set. I wish it kept the -damage debuffcomponent. Then it would add value in many more scenarios. Even in group play.

 

As it is, I'll likely drop it from the build next respec and grab another power with more use. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Force Redux

[Sovera]

7 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

May I ask how does this compare to your other stalkers?

About the same. I have a 2:30 wall that my Ice/, Staff/, and now KM/, have all hit on. But to put it in perspective people have talked about 2 minutes with their Ice/ and /Staff so I'm doing something wrong.

 

I confess I expected more from this. With the damage maxed the crits should be hitting for as much as they can and then have triple procs added, then +25% damage from /Bio. 2.30 is just ok. 2:00 would be good, and under 2:00 would be great.

 

1 minute ago, Force Redux said:

Parasitic is a very lackluster T9. When solo I find it sleeps the occasional minion, but it has no real impact, as those minions are usually of no threat anyway. Also, being spines, I tend to wake up sleeping minions in short order.

 

I think it might be (marginally) more useful in a ST set. I wish it kept the -damage debuffcomponent. Then it would add value in many more scenarios. Even in group play.

 

As it is, I'll likely drop it from the build next respect and grab another power with more use. 

I believe you're thinking of Genetic Corruption. I skip it for the reasons you're mentioned.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sovera

[Force Redux]

Thanks Sovera. So even with procs, it's just a middle of the road set, per the testing. I can live with that myself if I can live with the animations. Maybe. Greater Psi Sword is still calling my name... I'm trying to ignore her. But that damage ...

[Sovera]

6 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

Thanks Sovera. So even with procs, it's just a middle of the road set, per the testing. I can live with that myself if I can live with the animations. Maybe. Greater Psi Sword is still calling my name... I'm trying to ignore her. But that damage ...

I felt too squishy with the character to be enjoyable. I'm pondering a DM/Ice Stalker next, keep the triple proc approach. Ice has a great T9 that actually *does* function as a life saving button, Hoarfrost for tankyness. Siphon Life to help top life.

 

But I don't know it if is going to be an improvement on this character. To be truthful nothing really lives up to my Claws/Bio Scrapper standards.

[Chrome]

I have seen alot of posts suggesting Bio T9 is useless and i disagree 100% i just believe that people are not using it to there advantage and are waiting to use it as some kind of emergency cool down...i do not believe it should be used this way, when stacked with dna siphon and ablative carapace you have capped regen and capped recovery and even def in 30% range and ressit in the 40% range will allow you to survive long enough for ablative and dna siphon to recharge. the outlier being mobs that tank your recharge, these are what bio is truly weak against.

 

TLDR: bio is not a reactive set it is a proactive set, hitting all three bio clickies on cd makes for the best survivability in my honest opinion, and this is what i think a lot of people are missing with bio armor.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Chrome said:

I have seen alot of posts suggesting Bio T9 is useless and i disagree 100% i just believe that people are not using it to there advantage and are waiting to use it as some kind of emergency cool down...i do not believe it should be used this way, when stacked with dna siphon and ablative carapace you have capped regen and capped recovery and even def in 30% range and ressit in the 40% range will allow you to survive long enough for ablative and dna siphon to recharge. the outlier being mobs that tank your recharge, these are what bio is truly weak against.

 

TLDR: bio is not a reactive set it is a proactive set, hitting all three bio clickies on cd makes for the best survivability in my honest opinion, and this is what i think a lot of people are missing with bio armor.

Well, I've given different examples where using Parasitic Aura did nothing. I've used it proactively (as in, full HP and as an opening move when surrounded by enemies) and the results are the same. The 'maxed regen' happens if we hit 10 mobs but it does very little. We just seem to have had different experiences.

 

As for the recharge it's not a problem. Unlike DDR we can use IOs to patch recharge debuffs. This build has 90% resistance to them, for example. I believe the cap is 95%.

[Brutal Justice]

50 minutes ago, Chrome said:

I have seen alot of posts suggesting Bio T9 is useless and i disagree 100% i just believe that people are not using it to there advantage and are waiting to use it as some kind of emergency cool down...i do not believe it should be used this way, when stacked with dna siphon and ablative carapace you have capped regen and capped recovery and even def in 30% range and ressit in the 40% range will allow you to survive long enough for ablative and dna siphon to recharge. the outlier being mobs that tank your recharge, these are what bio is truly weak against.

 

TLDR: bio is not a reactive set it is a proactive set, hitting all three bio clickies on cd makes for the best survivability in my honest opinion, and this is what i think a lot of people are missing with bio armor.

I feel regen works in the same way and people don’t always understand how that works.  Reconstruction is a reactive power but dull pain is sort of a hybrid or even a trap.  Dull pain has a large heal that can be used reactively, but it has a rather significant delay on the heal.  I believe this happens because it applies the +hp first, then heals you.  This delay, plus the long recharge, make dull pain a lesser reactive power.  

 

One weakness  regen has is spike damage.  Dull pain gives a large amount of +hp and has a fairly long duration.  On a regen you get much more mileage out of that long duration +hp than you do the one time heal.  Not only does it make you less susceptible to spike damage but it also greatly increases you hp/s regen, increasing your sustain.  

 

Instant healing is also much better at sustaining you than clicking as a reaction in an attempt to save yourself.  People think regen is too click heavy and a dps killer.  Most of the time the only click you should be using during dps times is reconstruction.  If all you’re doing is reacting, you’re likely not doing very well.  Even MoG is best used proactively.  Use it before you take the alpha, not after.  

[Chrome]

1 hour ago, Brutal Justice said:

I feel regen works in the same way and people don’t always understand how that works.  Reconstruction is a reactive power but dull pain is sort of a hybrid or even a trap.  Dull pain has a large heal that can be used reactively, but it has a rather significant delay on the heal.  I believe this happens because it applies the +hp first, then heals you.  This delay, plus the long recharge, make dull pain a lesser reactive power.  

 

One weakness  regen has is spike damage.  Dull pain gives a large amount of +hp and has a fairly long duration.  On a regen you get much more mileage out of that long duration +hp than you do the one time heal.  Not only does it make you less susceptible to spike damage but it also greatly increases you hp/s regen, increasing your sustain.  

 

Instant healing is also much better at sustaining you than clicking as a reaction in an attempt to save yourself.  People think regen is too click heavy and a dps killer.  Most of the time the only click you should be using during dps times is reconstruction.  If all you’re doing is reacting, you’re likely not doing very well.  Even MoG is best used proactively.  Use it before you take the alpha, not after.  

exactly this , and as i said you shouldn't be using parasitic aura by itself you should always be clicking dna siphon and ablative to maintain the absorb buffer and the +regen flowing.

 

to be clear BIO isnt immortal, at times things happen that cause a cascade of failures, but for most things it is damn strong