P2W Vendor - Block Common Salvage

[Icecomet]

Thanks everybody for the input, we had some good points on both sides, but in summary, I would say this:

 

1.  People like me who delete stacks without selling will continue to do so until we can just block it (and those that just sell to an NPC vendor will likely also continue to do so)

2.  People who need the inf or don't mind being bothered with the auction house will also continue to sell their salvage because they need the influence or just want to be a good citizen and supply the market.

3. People have suggested a way to automatically sell all salvage in some automated sense to the auction house, though I think this would require extensive development?  I personally still wouldn't bother because the inf gain is minimal at best.

4. The one point that really wasn't addressed I think is that even IF the market supply took a hit and prices went up for people buying, they seem to be missing the point that those same people would also MAKE MORE inf when they sell salvage they don't need, thereby balancing that equation.

 

From my perspective, I don't see anything changing really other than providing a good quality of life change that's available to anybody that wants to spend some inf to enable an option to block it at the p2w vendor.

 

Thanks again everybody, I appreciate the supporters and value the input of the opponents, I hope the devs take this suggestion and give it proper consideration for a near future quality of life enhancement to the game.

 

Icecomet

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Icecomet

[Xanatos]

There is no decent argument against this. The market doesn't need players to post white salvage. They are seeded at 10k. That's absolute peanuts.

[gameboy1234]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:31 AM, MunkiLord said:

What I would like to see instead is a quick way to post all salvage of a certain rarity for a particular price. Make it super quick and easy to dump all my salvage on the market and I'll never delete another piece again.

Personally I think the whole salvage system is broken with relatively low numbers of people playing.  We could:

 

1) Automatically seed the AH with salvage for each player (like it never even shows up in inventory, just send it straight to the AH) or even just give players some sort of universal coupon that substitutes for any salvage at all.  Then we don't even have to do the AH thing, just make whatever recipes or IO sets you want.

 

2) Dump the salvage/recipe system altogether and just seed the AH with Common IOs and IO Set Enhancements.  Basically a cheaper version of reward merits, people get Common Merits (or something) for cheap IOs just for playing regular content, or convert Common Merits to Reward Merits to allow for the more expensive stuff.  Somebody would need to data mine this for drop rates but I'd like to see all slots fillable at level 25 with common IOs plus one or two of the more expensive IO Enh.  Drop rates for Common Merits should allow for slowly IOing out your character up through level 50.  Possibly drop the costs for the current Reward Merits so people can just buy IO Sets they want, this will compensate for the fact that salvage to make those sets no longer drops.

 

The idea that people were going to stand around East Commons Atlas Park auctioning off the salvage and drops they got to other players was a good idea, but something went really wrong with the implementation, and I'm not sure what.  Maybe just the balance, that IOs were balanced around needing to be a money sink for advanced players.  Or just the fact that the whole crafting mechanism is tedious to deal with.  Either way, I think some simplification for current players is needed.

 

(Aside: don't forget that the current AH is seeded with an infinite supply of common salvage, just at prices no one really wants to pay.  (Common salvage caps at, what, 10k?  Around there.)  So turning off salvage drops will NOT result in people going wanting, it just means they'll have to pay more.  Drop the max rate at the AH for salvage and the problem goes away.  Or just dispense with the need for salvage at all and the problem goes away too.)

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by gameboy1234

[gameboy1234]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:48 PM, Xanatos said:

My view is that asking players to pay 10K for common salvage is better than not letting them block common salvage drops. 10k for common salvage is really low, anyway.

If the devs allow players to block invention salvage, I'd be all for dropping the auto-buy price in the AH down to 1k for common salvage, and about 5k for uncommon and around 50k-100k for rare.

[gameboy1234]

4 hours ago, Icecomet said:

4. The one point that really wasn't addressed I think is that even IF the market supply took a hit and prices went up for people buying, they seem to be missing the point that those same people would also MAKE MORE inf when they sell salvage they don't need, thereby balancing that equation.

This is a great point.  One addition I have would be that if blocking is implemented, that the devs should at the same time eliminate level tiers of salvage, so that all salvage drops for everyone.  (What I mean is the level ranges where some salvage no longer drops.  Not tiers as in common, uncommon and rare.)  This would help supply all levels of players, and would also mean that lowbies who might need the money could sell to higher level players who are better able to pay the higher prices.

 

The bit I quoted from you is also a good counter-argument to what I posted above about dropping the auto-buy price.  I think now the devs should try letting the market float before tying to intervene too strongly.  (But dropping the auto-buy price should be reserved for a last option.)

 

[Icecomet]

Thanks gameboy1234 for some additional points and alternatives to consider, again, this was a good conversation thread and I hope it can receive some due consideration from the development team.

 

Thanks again to everybody that contributed their view point, only with good discussion and hearing all valid concerns and input can the best decision be made!

 

Icecomet

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Icecomet

[Chance Jackson]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:57 PM, Xanatos said:

There is no decent argument against this. The market doesn't need players to post white salvage. They are seeded at 10k. That's absolute peanuts.

10k is an absolutely absurd price for white salvage, that's like 10x the price of yellow salvage

[Chance Jackson]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:09 PM, gameboy1234 said:

This is a great point.  One addition I have would be that if blocking is implemented, that the devs should at the same time eliminate level tiers of salvage, so that all salvage drops for everyone.  (What I mean is the level ranges where some salvage no longer drops.  Not tiers as in common, uncommon and rare.)  This would help supply all levels of players, and would also mean that lowbies who might need the money could sell to higher level players who are better able to pay the higher prices.

 

The bit I quoted from you is also a good counter-argument to what I posted above about dropping the auto-buy price.  I think now the devs should try letting the market float before tying to intervene too strongly.  (But dropping the auto-buy price should be reserved for a last option.)

 

I'm pretty sure all white salvage purchased, is backed by all white salvage put up for auction; so that the low level vs high level salvage distinction no longer matters as far as selling is concerned

[ShardWarrior]

On 7/11/2020 at 11:32 AM, Icecomet said:

3. People have suggested a way to automatically sell all salvage in some automated sense to the auction house, though I think this would require extensive development?  I personally still wouldn't bother because the inf gain is minimal at best.

In the example provided, this would be a one and done deal.  There would be nothing else for you to do except collect the occasional inf from the auction house.  Your white salvage drops are not going into your personal storage, so no clutter.  You are getting inf, not having white salvage take up personal inventory space and the market continues to get a supply. 

[AerialAssault]

10k inf sounds like a lot but I remember Luck Charms on Live.

 

Oh boy, do I remember Luck Charms.

[Xanatos]

37 minutes ago, Chance Jackson said:

10k is an absolutely absurd price for white salvage, that's like 10x the price of yellow salvage

 

Mood:

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Xanatos

[Chance Jackson]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:30 PM, AerialAssault said:

10k inf sounds like a lot but I remember Luck Charms on Live.

 

Oh boy, do I remember Luck Charms.

Live market was a nightmare, "The Last Conversion" is the only reason I was able to afford a purple'd out build for my Main 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Chance Jackson
purple'd

[srmalloy]

11 hours ago, Chance Jackson said:

Live market was a nightmare, "The Last Conversion" is the only reason I was able to afford a purple out build for my Main 

The live market was one of the reasons I was bent out of shape over the redesign of the Hollows -- before the redesign, going to the south end of the Hollows to mug green-icon Madness Mages was one of the few viable ways to get the Luck Charms you needed for low-level Accuracy IOs, with them often going for 30k each on the AH. After the redesign made the Hollows a 'kinder, gentler' zone, finding Madness Mages there became virtually impossible.

[ShardWarrior]

22 hours ago, Xanatos said:

 

Mood:

 

Why would you pay 10 dollars for a banana if you could buy it for less than 1 dollar? 😉

[arcane]

The common/uncommon salvage problem reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry started to get carpal tunnel for trying to sign too many $0.12 checks. The loss is so microscopic that it’s simply preferable for many of us to just trash them right away.

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

The common/uncommon salvage problem reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry started to get carpal tunnel for trying to sign too many $0.12 checks. The loss is so microscopic that it’s simply preferable for many of us to just trash them right away.

In the examples provided, Jerry would have to sign one check.  The rest would be signed automatically.  No carpal tunnel required.

[RCU7115]

I just sell all my common salvage & recipes at one of the stores. Takes like 20-30 seconds to do.

 

[Icecomet]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:22 PM, ShardWarrior said:

In the example provided, this would be a one and done deal.  There would be nothing else for you to do except collect the occasional inf from the auction house.  Your white salvage drops are not going into your personal storage, so no clutter.  You are getting inf, not having white salvage take up personal inventory space and the market continues to get a supply. 

 

The inf gain for a lot of us is so insignificant that I still wouldn't bother having to collect the vast quantities of sold items.  When the AH is full, you can't simply click the "get all inf" button like you SHOULD be able to, but instead it floods your chat with AH busy messages and you have to wait to collect more.  And trust me, if all the white salvage was selling automatically, the AH would be FULL very, very FAST.  It seems in my observations that you can collect 25-30 salvage without getting locked out and with a selling capacity of like 200, uff, what a nuisance...

 

Again, not something I personally want to be hassled with.

 

@Devs, please give this thread a review and some proper consideration!!

 

Icecomet

 

[MsSmart]

I am with you, and fully support your suggestion.

 

I keep hearing the player economy, that is a bunch of self-serving trash.

 

To begin with if you are into making enhancements or what not, and need materials, I will give you what so many others often tells me for anything I often ask: Play the content!

 

If less players gives away the common salvage, then their value will raise, and thus making it worth while to collect and sell, for a crafter to buy if they do not feel like playing the content.

 

Lastly, since when players should be subjugated to another player's whim?

 

Sue

[ZacKing]

10 minutes ago, MsSmart said:

I am with you, and fully support your suggestion.

 

I keep hearing the player economy, that is a bunch of self-serving trash.

 

To begin with if you are into making enhancements or what not, and need materials, I will give you what so many others often tells me for anything I often ask: Play the content!

 

If less players gives away the common salvage, then their value will raise, and thus making it worth while to collect and sell, for a crafter to buy if they do not feel like playing the content.

 

Lastly, since when players should be subjugated to another player's whim?

 

Sue

and asking for a way to cut off salvage supply into the market and driving up prices for everyone else because you're ever so slightly inconvenienced isn't self serving trash?  Got it. 

[Outrider_01]

Its not inventory management, its time management.  Find time, delete the salvage.  Sure, it takes awhile...about 2 seconds per stack when you right click and hit the S key when the warnings for "Delete Salvage?" and "This can be used for ABC, BCA, and ABBA recipes."  After that, you are talking about 60 seconds tops, or make the enhancement on the spot deleting 3-6 salvage in the creation of the enhancement since you can hold up to 70 in the tray then drop off in a SG enhancement table.  With a yellow recipe in the SG, can always use a converter and turn it into a random rare then turn it into any other IO in the category.

 

It all takes some time, not a lot, but if you want to block common salvage I can guarantee its going to take you longer when you want to make an IO than it is to buy the salvage off the AH then it does to deal with clearing out your salvage page.

[Icecomet]

20 hours ago, ZacKing said:

and asking for a way to cut off salvage supply into the market and driving up prices for everyone else because you're ever so slightly inconvenienced isn't self serving trash?  Got it. 

Many of us delete the white salvage or sell it straight to a vendor rather than deal with the clunky AH interface, so, not sure where you think this will affect anything.  Those that collect and sell will likely continue to do so because they need the influence or wanna be a good citizen and those of us who do not, simply want a quality of life update to block it like I do common recipes, yet, you don't see that market in short supply...

 

Mostly though, one of my strongest points made at the top of page 2:

 

On 7/11/2020 at 10:32 AM, Icecomet said:

4. The one point that really wasn't addressed I think is that even IF the market supply took a hit and prices went up for people buying, they seem to be missing the point that those same people would also MAKE MORE inf when they sell salvage they don't need, thereby balancing that equation.

 

 

So, there's that statistical fact that you've overlooked....

 

Icecomet

 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Icecomet said:

So, there's that statistical fact that you've overlooked....

Yes that is great for the seller.  What about the buyer having to pay higher prices?  So there is a statistical fact you have overlooked.  😄

 

2 hours ago, Icecomet said:

Many of us delete the white salvage or sell it straight to a vendor rather than deal with the clunky AH interface, so, not sure where you think this will affect anything.  T

If the salvage were auto-posted, all you would need to do is click a button to collect your inf.  No need to worry about posting it yourself.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Icecomet]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes that is great for the seller.  What about the buyer having to pay higher prices?  So there is a statistical fact you have overlooked.  😄

 

Ok, I thought I spelled it out in English, but my bad, perhaps I didn't, let me reiterate.  IF the market supply took a hit and prices went up for people buying, they seem to be missing the point that those same people would also MAKE MORE inf when they sell salvage they don't need, thereby balancing that equation.

 

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

If the salvage were auto-posted, all you would need to do is click a button to collect your inf.  No need to worry about posting it yourself.

 

Again, back to the previous point I stated.  The inf gain for a lot of us is so insignificant that I still wouldn't bother having to collect the vast quantities of sold items.  When the AH is full, you can't simply click the "get all inf" button like you SHOULD be able to, but instead it floods your chat with AH busy messages and you have to wait to collect more.  And trust me, if all the white salvage was selling automatically, the AH would be FULL very, very FAST.  It seems in my observations that you can collect 25-30 salvage without getting locked out and with a selling capacity of like 200, uff, what a nuisance...

 

Icecomet

[arcane]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:14 PM, Chance Jackson said:

10k is an absolutely absurd price for white salvage, that's like 10x the price of yellow salvage

Not giving my opinion on the OP, but 10k is like 1-2 endgame minion kills, for reference....