Berzerkers

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Y'all wait long enough for the Tanker to take the alpha?

Whenever I play my Storm/Nrg Defender and there's a Tank (point body) on the team, I always send them a tell apologizing in ad-- Oh crap, gotta go!

 

chases after Tornado...

 

 

But seriously, I end up taking point when playing that build because of how aggressively fast it is and Tornado moves on to the next target the moment its current spawn is gone. I take ownership of its aggro and quite literally don't have time to wait for the Tank. Especially when there's two out (which is all the time).

[BZRKR]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:32 PM, Psylenz0511 said:

In my estimation...

I am sorry you've had the run of bad experiences that have lead you to make this post.

On 9/4/2020 at 11:32 PM, Psylenz0511 said:

I don't think 3/4 of the tanks in game know how to keep their team moving efficiently

The best remedy for this is to make a Tanker, and be an example of the kind of gameplay you want to see.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 11:32 PM, Psylenz0511 said:

These tanks are selfish, rude, and parasitic.

Ouch. You'll catch more flies with honey. Good luck man.

[BZRKR]

21 hours ago, Sovera said:

If there is one thing I miss is being able to scout ahead and look for the boss or the clickie needed for the mission. As a tanker I don't get to do that anymore.

Heh. In the group of players that I often team with, this is called "Jersey Stealth". You just run ahead to the end. The aggro cap means that when you arrive at the end room, all you need to do is clear the things still on you, and then you can click or assemble the team, no problem. The thing is that with Stalkers, stacked stealth, and invisibility often a lot of the team arrives with you. Of course, this really only works because we have team communication and everyone knows what to expect.

[Warboss]

14 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Whenever I play my Storm/Nrg Defender and there's a Tank (point body) on the team, I always send them a tell apologizing in ad-- Oh crap, gotta go!

 

chases after Tornado...

 

Tornadozerkers?

[drbuzzard]

I'd like to think I'm a pretty competent tank. I do have a mix of builds with and without taunt, depending on how things fit. Heck, now that you can get assault at 15% boost, it's hard to convince me that tanks should go without it, and that that boost in damage won't help a team more than a mostly redundant ranged taunt.

 

Of course, I've gotten crap from people when I do play a tanker who lacks taunt. Often for reasons which has nothing whatsoever to do with taunt. A bunch of clueless sorts often see it as a litmus test of a good tanker without any idea of how the game mechanics actually work. Tanks have a very hard time losing aggro these days, and taunt is only for pulling things or bailing out a teammate (though a ranged attack will do these just as well, and still do damage).

 

About the only time Taunt is particularly handy is MLTF for getting LR's attention and keeping it at the end.

[Omega-202]

12 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

About the only time Taunt is particularly handy is MLTF for getting LR's attention and keeping it at the end.

I am in no way saying that Taunt isn't useful, but I still feel like this strategy is inefficient.  If you've got a team with full Incarnates and a decent mix of Barrier and Rebirth Destinies, with some minor additional healing, the huddle ball method seems to do a better job of chewing through the towers than having a Tank hop around away from any support, taunting Recluse.  

 

For me, the smoothest runs always seem to be huddle and burn.  

[VV]

21 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Y'all wait long enough for the Tanker to take the alpha?

Not when I'm Tanking. I am (almost) always first to the next group (unless I get lost). Unless someone skips ahead and leaves the team behind. If that happens, I leapfrog them. I figure if they think they can take it, they can take it. If the team, in general, gets ahead of me, I pick up my pace. But, basically, there should never be "wait long enough for the tanker."

[HelenCarnate]

When I am on a tank I never wait for everything to be dead before moving on.  I am there to get aggro and take the alpha strike. I move on to the next group and taunt them to reduce their range which gets them all in a nice ball. About that time the group catches up and burns them down. 

 

Oddly enough I pay more attention to health bars when I am on a tank than when I am a set that can heal. If someone's health starts dropping to the point where they are in danger I will hop back a bit and target them and taunt whatever they are attacking.  Unless of course they run off on their own. If the group goes 1 way and you go another then I assume you can handle yourself and will do nothing to rush to your aid if you are wrong. 

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

On the topic of why taking the Taunt power isn't always necessary:

 

There are multiple levels of threat aggregation in this game that a Tanker (or realistically any character) can take advantage of as a means of aggro-collection.

 

In order:

1. Exist
2. Damage
3. Taunt (Not the ability, just the function)
4. Debuff

A Tanker, by simply existing, will draw attention to itself, but so will pretty much anything, so they punch something and deal damage, which generates threat against themselves. Using the ability triggers Gauntlet, which causes Taunt, which builds additional threat. It is possible to do enough damage to override Taunt from a threat threshold. which typically requires an extreme amount of offset, but I have both caused, and seen others cause a shift from a Tanker onto another character and it typically requires the Tanker to be either not attacking, or having a very poor selection of damage output. What happens if we have two Tankers however? Will they share taunt, will one grab aggro over the other, what will happen? That's where the final step in threat analysis in the AI comes into play: Debuff. Debuff is the key factor in why Ice Armor was the King of Taunt, not only was Icicles an active component dishing out constant damage flow, but it in combination with Chilling Embrace were doing multiple levels of debuff (rech, slow, -dam) ontop of any other component that might be contributing from an attack set.

 

I do not carry Taunt on my Rad/SS/Soul. I have also never lost aggro to any other build I've teamed with. Between Beta Decay being an active low-yield Taunt toggle, having Rage multiplying my damage output, and being able to throw out Darkest Night as an anchor I know for certain I am hitting the extremes of threat generation. Given that, no I don't have, need, or otherwise think about taking the actual 'Taunt' power. If another player wants to challenge that stack of utility, I'll gladly shut everything off and step aside and let them see how much attention they suddenly earned.

[Tsuko]

23 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

On the topic of why taking the Taunt power isn't always necessary:

 

There are multiple levels of threat aggregation in this game that a Tanker (or realistically any character) can take advantage of as a means of aggro-collection.

 

In order:

1. Exist
2. Damage
3. Taunt (Not the ability, just the function)
4. Debuff

A Tanker, by simply existing, will draw attention to itself, but so will pretty much anything, so they punch something and deal damage, which generates threat against themselves. Using the ability triggers Gauntlet, which causes Taunt, which builds additional threat. It is possible to do enough damage to override Taunt from a threat threshold. which typically requires an extreme amount of offset, but I have both caused, and seen others cause a shift from a Tanker onto another character and it typically requires the Tanker to be either not attacking, or having a very poor selection of damage output. What happens if we have two Tankers however? Will they share taunt, will one grab aggro over the other, what will happen? That's where the final step in threat analysis in the AI comes into play: Debuff. Debuff is the key factor in why Ice Armor was the King of Taunt, not only was Icicles an active component dishing out constant damage flow, but it in combination with Chilling Embrace were doing multiple levels of debuff (rech, slow, -dam) ontop of any other component that might be contributing from an attack set.

 

I do not carry Taunt on my Rad/SS/Soul. I have also never lost aggro to any other build I've teamed with. Between Beta Decay being an active low-yield Taunt toggle, having Rage multiplying my damage output, and being able to throw out Darkest Night as an anchor I know for certain I am hitting the extremes of threat generation. Given that, no I don't have, need, or otherwise think about taking the actual 'Taunt' power. If another player wants to challenge that stack of utility, I'll gladly shut everything off and step aside and let them see how much attention they suddenly earned.

Hami tanking is the only place i could see taunt being a mandatory.

 

Or extreme low dps / debuff build with no form of range powers (or being a mule for a 2set Perfect Zinger for 2,25 tox / psi resist)

Edited September 9, 2020 by Tsuko