Crit Enhancements

[Hero Star]

Can anyone give me a rundown of how the Scrapper crit enhancements work? Is the effect global or just tied to that power? Thanks.

[Bill Z Bubba]

If you're talking about the AT IO crit procs, the Scrapper's Strike Crit Bonus is passive and can be slotted anywhere, doesn't need to be activated. I have it in Swipe as the only slot/enhancement, for example, and swipe is never in my power tray.

 

The Critical Strikes +50% Proc, however, must be activated. I've got that full set in Followup so that when it fires off, I'll have a much higher crit chance on focus and slash.

 

[Hero Star]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

If you're talking about the AT IO crit procs, the Scrapper's Strike Crit Bonus is passive and can be slotted anywhere, doesn't need to be activated. I have it in Swipe as the only slot/enhancement, for example, and swipe is never in my power tray.

 

The Critical Strikes +50% Proc, however, must be activated. I've got that full set in Followup so that when it fires off, I'll have a much higher crit chance on focus and slash.

 

Cool. Is that because Followup has a duration so you can use the +50% Proc over that time?

[Bill Z Bubba]

8 minutes ago, Hero Star said:

Cool. Is that because Followup has a duration so you can use the +50% Proc over that time?

Nah, you can stick in whatever attack. It's a one shot activation that doesn't last very long. No clue how it would act in, say, a damage toggle but I bet someone around here does.

[Hero Star]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Nah, you can stick in whatever attack. It's a one shot activation that doesn't last very long. No clue how it would act in, say, a damage toggle but I bet someone around here does.

Okay thanks. Yeah that would be cool to know about the damage aura.

[Tsuko]

To understand how those awesome ATO uniques work, you have to understand how crit work for scrapper 🙂

 

So for a scrapper, on top of having the highest base damage for mélée powers, each power have a chance to crit : it's 5% for almost all powers :

 

 

and 15% for some powers as Eviscerate, Eagle Claw or Arc of Destruction :

 

 

The crit chance tend to change based on the rank of the target, i dont have the exact number but it should be the effect of the purple patch (AKA everything you consider purple will have 50% resistance to all your effects). Every Scrappers have the following buff :

 

 

The Scrapper Strikes unique ATO is not a Proc and gives passive bonus to critical chance, you can see a new buff on your buff bar when you have the ATO equiped :

 

 

so your attacks will have 3% more crit chance vs minions and players and 6% against all the other targets.

 

The ATO unique Critical Strike is a proc, so is tied to proc rules :

 

 

Meaning that the choice of his placement is critical, no pun intended 🙂

So, it's a proc giving a 3,25 seconds window of +50% chance to crit, so you better slot it on a power you will use BEFORE using the power you want to crit.

As all proc (for the moment till they change/nerf/balance/whatever how the proc chance works) more a power has a long recharge more chance you have to proc the buff.

 

But the rotation is more important, (for Dual Blades, Claws, Titan weapons, STJ and Dark mélée where it's even vital)

 

So, it's the subtil "game" of building a Scrapper, where you place your ATO +50% crit will change all about the performance of your scrapper. Finding the right place between Chance to proc : Most of the "high chance of proc" powers are the big hitter you want to crit, and what rotation you use.

 

So, there is an optimal way of playing each scrapper, based on how you build it and if those choices were good. 

 

 

[JumpingSpider]

The problem with both of those IOs is that Scrappers can only CRIT with Scrapper AT powers while brutes get to power fury with any attack.

 

At the very least Scrappers should be able to CRIT with brawl, and I'd even add in the Fighting Pool powers to make them more than just a tax to get to Tough and Weave.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I can certainly see the argument for allowing brawl and all power pool attacks to crit for scrappers. Perhaps that's something else @Captain Powerhousecan correct moving forward.

 

EDIT: CPH, ignore except for brawl. But if you could verify that all pool powers crit as per normal crit rules (5% for minions but 10% for everything else) and that the scrapper AT IOs increase those chances, that'd be awesome.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Tsuko]

On 10/8/2020 at 7:16 PM, JumpingSpider said:

The problem with both of those IOs is that Scrappers can only CRIT with Scrapper AT powers while brutes get to power fury with any attack.

 

At the very least Scrappers should be able to CRIT with brawl, and I'd even add in the Fighting Pool powers to make them more than just a tax to get to Tough and Weave.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Tsuko

[Hero Star]

47 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

To understand how those awesome ATO uniques work, you have to understand how crit work for scrapper 🙂

 

So for a scrapper, on top of having the highest base damage for mélée powers, each power have a chance to crit : it's 5% for almost all powers :

 

 

and 15% for some powers as Eviscerate, Eagle Claw or Arc of Destruction :

 

 

The crit chance tend to change based on the rank of the target, i dont have the exact number but it should be the effect of the purple patch (AKA everything you consider purple will have 50% resistance to all your effects). Every Scrappers have the following buff :

 

 

The Scrapper Strikes unique ATO is not a Proc and gives passive bonus to critical chance, you can see a new buff on your buff bar when you have the ATO equiped :

 

 

so your attacks will have 3% more crit chance vs minions and players and 6% against all the other targets.

 

The ATO unique Critical Strike is a proc, so is tied to proc rules :

 

 

Meaning that the choice of his placement is critical, no pun intended 🙂

So, it's a proc giving a 3,25 seconds window of +50% chance to crit, so you better slot it on a power you will use BEFORE using the power you want to crit.

As all proc (for the moment till they change/nerf/balance/whatever how the proc chance works) more a power has a long recharge more chance you have to proc the buff.

 

But the rotation is more important, (for Dual Blades, Claws, Titan weapons, STJ and Dark mélée where it's even vital)

 

So, it's the subtil "game" of building a Scrapper, where you place your ATO +50% crit will change all about the performance of your scrapper. Finding the right place between Chance to proc : Most of the "high chance of proc" powers are the big hitter you want to crit, and what rotation you use.

 

So, there is an optimal way of playing each scrapper, based on how you build it and if those choices were good. 

 

 

By rotation do you mean attack chain? Any advice for Dark Melee/FA? Right now at lvl 36 I do Fiery Embrace+Soul Drain+Burn+Shadow Maul+etc. What if I put it in Smite and used it before Shadow Maul?

 

Edit: I know the character may not be high enough level to use these yet. Just trying to get an idea of the strategy for later on.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Hero Star

[JumpingSpider]

2 minutes ago, Hero Star said:

By rotation do you mean attack chain? Any advice for Dark Melee/FA? Right now at lvl 36 I do Fiery Embrace+Soul Drain+Burn+Shadow Maul+etc. What if I put it in Smite and used it before Shadow Maul?

My MA scrapper has 3 powers I usually cycle through, Crane Kick, Eagle's Talon, Dragon's Tail in that order (with Storm Kick and Crippling Axe Kick in the tray if my recharge rates get messed with).

I have Superior Critical Strikes in the fastest power in the preferred chain (Crane Kick) and Superior Scrapper's Strike in Storm Kick because the bonus is always on.  If CS procs, I can usually get through Eagle's Talon and Dragon's Tail before it fade, sometimes back around to Crane Kick again.

I'd suggest putting the proc in your fastest recharge+animation power, and then running your chain in fastest animation order to get the most activations in the 6 seconds the bonus lasts.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, Hero Star said:

Edit: I know the character may not be high enough level to use these yet. Just trying to get an idea of the strategy for later on.

The AT IOs can be slotted very early. (Is it lvl 1?) At 50 you can use enhancement catalyzers on them to make them superior which improves the base states of the set.

[JumpingSpider]

25 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

 

??? Are you saying you can Crit with Moonbeam?

[Bill Z Bubba]

33 minutes ago, JumpingSpider said:

??? Are you saying you can Crit with Moonbeam?

APP/PPP pools appear to crit, yes. Why those and not regular power pools and brawl would appear to be nothing more than an oversight in coding.

 

Ummm, scratch that. Air Superiority has a crit chance listed.

Boxing and Kick are also stating a 5% chance of special damage.

Flurry lists it as well.

Brawl appears to be the only one that doesn't.

I stand very corrected.

Now whether the powers ONLY have a 5% chance to crit or go to 10% for LTs, Bosses, etc is unknown.

 

Verified Kick crits. Set it to auto against an AV.

 

I'd need to analyze the logs but it sure seems like it's only 5%. Which is wrong against an AV.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[JumpingSpider]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

APP/PPP pools appear to crit, yes. Why those and not regular power pools and brawl would appear to be nothing more than an oversight in coding.

 

Ummm, scratch that. Air Superiority has a crit chance listed.

Boxing and Kick are also stating a 5% chance of special damage.

Flurry lists it as well.

Brawl appears to be the only one that doesn't.

I stand very corrected.

Now whether the powers ONLY have a 5% chance to crit or go to 10% for LTs, Bosses, etc is unknown.

 

Verified Kick crits. Set it to auto against an AV.

 

I'd need to analyze the logs but it sure seems like it's only 5%. Which is wrong against an AV.

Interesting.  I'll see if Spring Attack and Caltrops crit on my scrapper.

EDIT:  Spring Attack (Leaping pool) and Caltrops (Weapon Mastery epic pool) do NOT have the 5% chance listed.  Was not able to check Jump Kick or Shuriken.  Someone might have to comb through all of the pools to see what has it and what doesn't.

Edited October 8, 2020 by JumpingSpider

[Uun]

3 hours ago, JumpingSpider said:

I'd suggest putting the proc in your fastest recharge+animation power, and then running your chain in fastest animation order to get the most activations in the 6 seconds the bonus lasts.

I thought the duration was 3.25 seconds.

[Hew]

I crit with crosspunch, moonbeam, and (im not sure here, it tends to get pretty spammy) ball lightning.

[Tsuko]

6 hours ago, Hero Star said:

By rotation do you mean attack chain? Any advice for Dark Melee/FA? Right now at lvl 36 I do Fiery Embrace+Soul Drain+Burn+Shadow Maul+etc. What if I put it in Smite and used it before Shadow Maul?

 

Edit: I know the character may not be high enough level to use these yet. Just trying to get an idea of the strategy for later on.

that's more or less what i do with my Dark mélée Scrapper. And the reason is simple :

 

 

Smite is a Damage per Animation beast.

 

So far, the best rotation i found was easy : smite / something / smite / something / smite / something / smite / something and so on. "Something" being based on DPA from biggest to smallest and situation. Mid's dont calculate well the DPA and damage of Quick form sniper, Zapp and Moonbeam are monsters. so the regular "Something" should be Midnight Grasp / Zapp / shadow maul.

 

of course, what hapened in game has priority lol if you're about to eat dirt, Siphon life or Healing Flames are... better DPA 😛

The other vital reason i found was that when i used a more bursty attack chain (AKA only big hitter) my endurance take a dive, badly.

 

Smite have the 50% critical chance so, i change my rotation if and only if i proc :

 

• in single target situation : Midnight Grasp / zapp right after the 50% proc
• in multi target : Ball lightning / shadow maul.

 

PS : and BL / SM massive area crits with soul drain are worth the show 😛  

Edited October 9, 2020 by Tsuko

[InvaderStych]

7 hours ago, JumpingSpider said:

The problem with both of those IOs is that Scrappers can only CRIT with Scrapper AT powers while brutes get to power fury with any attack.

 

As noted up-thread, APP/PPP powers crit all day, every day.  Certain standard pool attacks will crit, but others, like Spring Attack (Pesky Pseudo-Pets) won't.

 

Where I, personally, take issue with Crits vs. Fury is in Secondary power sets.  Brute Fury powers dmg auras and secondary Nukes, but those powers, to my knowledge, will never generate crits.  If Brute Ground Zero benefits from Fury, then Scrapper Ground Zero should Crit, imo.

 

As I haven't played all Scrapper Secondaries, yet, please correct me if others have had a different experience with dmg generating powers from their secondary. For example, I've never rolled /Fire on a Scrapper (tho I am considering it), so I have no idea how Burn, the dmg component of Consume (which I'd expect to act like Radiation Therapy - No Crits For You!) or FE.  Though making FE crit it's added damage would be clunky and wierd I suppose, lol.

Edited October 9, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Tsuko]

49 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

As noted up-thread, APP/PPP powers crit all day, every day.  Certain standard pool attacks will crit, but others, like Spring Attack (Pesky Pseudo-Pets) won't.

 

Where I, personally, take issue with Crits vs. Fury is in Secondary power sets.  Brute Fury powers dmg auras and secondary Nukes, but those powers, to my knowledge, will never generate crits.  If Brute Ground Zero benefits from Fury, then Scrapper Ground Zero should Crit, imo.

 

As I haven't played all Scrapper Secondaries, yet, please correct me if others have had a different experience with dmg generating powers from their secondary. For example, I've never rolled /Fire on a Scrapper (tho I am considering it), so I have no idea how Burn, the dmg component of Consume (which I'd expect to act like Radiation Therapy - No Crits For You!) or FE.  Though making FE crit it's added damage would be clunky and wierd I suppose, lol.

yeah, when you compare base dmg of brutes and scrappers, let them enjoy fury 😛

 

And fury have "issues" with burn too :x

[Sgt. Terminus]

12 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

As I haven't played all Scrapper Secondaries, yet, please correct me if others have had a different experience with dmg generating powers from their secondary. For example, I've never rolled /Fire on a Scrapper (tho I am considering it), so I have no idea how Burn, the dmg component of Consume (which I'd expect to act like Radiation Therapy - No Crits For You!) or FE.  Though making FE crit it's added damage would be clunky and wierd I suppose, lol.

Roll /Fire, do it!   In my experience you have the perfect power to slot your Critical Strikes proc in Burn baby Burn!

 

1.  As mentioned, the power itself doesn't crit and it is the perfect opener to any attack chain.

 

2.  It has an insane proc rate, especially since you are always one of the Burns five targets.  I think this is because it grants you immobilization protection.   That means that if you are solo on a EB/AV or such, you are always procing off 2 targets.   You can even proc with no one in melee range.   My Ice/Fire/Fire was my first 50 and still my favorite.  Can I get my Fireball, Freezing Touch and Frozen Aura off in the Crit proc window?  So much melting...

 

3.  Yes, you will have runners, no getting around that, but can you be quick enough to get them all sometimes?  Besides, nothing wrong with letting a few stragglers to spread the fear of your exploits.

[Marshal_General]

Where is the best place to slot the proc in savage melee? I was originally going to place it in shred thinking more targets means more chances to proc.

[Hew]

50 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

Where is the best place to slot the proc in savage melee? I was originally going to place it in shred thinking more targets means more chances to proc.

 

 

Having never used this tool before the guy up above me, it is pretty amazing. I can tell you what power to NOT slot it in! Hemorrhage! 😄 I'm guessing maybe vicious slash? Hard to say, all the DPA are basically the same in savage!!!

Edited October 9, 2020 by Hew

[InvaderStych]

7 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Where is the best place to slot the proc in savage melee? I was originally going to place it in shred thinking more targets means more chances to proc.

 

Shred can be skipped.  It's not a great cone and it roots you for too long.  Finished or Near-Finished Builds should have Rending Flurry on fast enough recharge to completely replace the cone.

 

7 hours ago, Hew said:

Having never used this tool before the guy up above me, it is pretty amazing. I can tell you what power to NOT slot it in! Hemorrhage! 😄 I'm guessing maybe vicious slash? Hard to say, all the DPA are basically the same in savage!!!

 

I'd also skip Hemorrhage based on my experience with it on a Brute.  If I understand consensus correctly, it's mostly only worthwhile on Stalkers.  That said, haven't tried it with a Scrapper, so I could be reading the room incorrectly, lol.

 

Not certain where I would drop it.  Almost in Leap as that's my standard opener on Svg/, but that means losing a slot that be extra dmg or -res.  My Brute's ST chain is basically composed of VS, MS, SS, and Leap when it is up (often).

 

[Tsuko]

8 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Where is the best place to slot the proc in savage melee? I was originally going to place it in shred thinking more targets means more chances to proc.

Based on mine (savage / shield), savage has tremendous dps but scale badly with criticals, being second to none others than TW IF and only IF we dont factor in critical.

 

Savage is better on stalker but is very powerfull on scrapper, at certain conditions :

 

Never ever use your frenzy stacks in single targets fights (as AV) : as said hemorague is only good on stalkers and rending is nice but for aoe, obviously 🙂 Having a buff in recharge in an attack set is unique in mélée powers : your stacks have better value than anything else for Single target dps.

 

 

So the rotation seems pretty easy on savage : Spam Vicious slash at max stacks.

As all scrappers, where you ll slot your 50% ato is critical cause you want to crit Vicious but Maiming (and savage if possible) too due to ultra quick animations.

Remember that the 50% crit chance ATO has roughly 3 uses per minute and that you want to proc your ATO for area damage too, so for rending flurry.

 

Using Savage leap as an opener and this power having a 40 sec recharge (easy to reduce to 10ish seconds), i love to slot it on SL to hope for a proc on rending flurry, or i try to always use it before i use Vicious (1,67 anim speed) and maiming (1,17) leaving 0,41 sec to cast Savage during the last moment of the buff : every power used During the buff phase will have the bonus, even if it ends his animation (i look at you shadow maul :p) AFTER the end of the buff window.

 

So, ofc, it s really about what powers you choose in your build.