Sooo, Energy Melee Future [re: The Process]

[Troo]

Energy Melee Changes, Oh My, oh my, oh my!!

 

Sounds like these have been in the works for months (since spring?). It appears the goal is to add some AoE and try to preserve some of the former Energy Melee glory and give it to Scrappers.

Sounds Grrrreat!

 

If you haven't checked it out and are interested in a sneak peek, it's in open Beta. Maybe give it a spin. (feedback welcomed)

Spoiler

Powerset Revamp: Energy Melee (Focused Feedback Thread)

Energy Melee has received a series of changes aimed at improving the performance of the set. Total Focus now acts as an opener for three different Energy Focus combos, including a Total Focus > Energy Transfer combo which provides fast, potent single target damage. Stun has been reworked into Power Crash, a cone attack, in order to provide a small amount of additional AoE capability to the set.

 

Power Changes

•  Barrage
  • If used with Energy Focus: 100% chance for stun and applies a weakening (-special and -regen) effect to the target
•  Energy Punch
  • Recharge increased from 4s to 5s
  • End cost increased from 5.2 to 6.032
  • Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.16
•  Bone Smasher
  • Cast time reduced from 1.5s to 1.27s
•  Power Crash (Replaces Stun)
  • Power Crash is now a minor cone that can hit up to 5 targets (10 for Tankers)
  • No longer takes melee damage sets, now takes PBAoE damage sets (any existing enhancements will remain slotted until the character respecs)
  • If used with Energy Focus: Target cap increased to 10 targets (16 for Tankers)
  • If you previously had Stun in your build, you'll now have Power Crash
  • Stalkers only:
    • This power has a 16s recharge (instead of a 9s recharge for other ATs), with proportional damage and endurance cost increases per the standard damage formulas
    • As Stalkers do not have Whirling Hands, they rely entirely on Power Crash for AoE damage
•  Whirling Hands
  •  Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.1819 (it was slightly below what the damage formula dictated)
•  Total Focus 
  • Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds
  • Total Focus grants a charge of Energy Focus (even if power misses)
  •  Energy Focus
    • Energy Focus is consumed when casting certain Energy Melee powers in order to provide bonus effects (Energy Focus is not consumed if the power misses)
    • Energy Focus expires after 15 seconds
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will also generate a backup Energy Store that will re-activate Energy Focus after the current Energy Focus is used or expires (essentially it provides two stacks of Energy Focus)
•  Energy Transfer
  • Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
  • Damage is now 100% energy
  • Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s
  • If used with Energy Focus: Cast time reduced from 2.67s to 1.0s
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will not only avoid the self-damage, but will actually heals you for 10% of your base max HP

 

What do I think? It's better than what's currently on live Homecoming. Is it the pre-Nerf version updated for today's game some had hoped for, no. It is different and some folks really like it.

 

 

Folks have been writing for a long time: 'Please revisit Energy Melee.' 'Revert the Nerf.' 'Let Scrappers have EM.'

 

Boom a weekly discussion. After 67 weeks of other discussion, finally, the precious. YAY!

'Weekly Discussion 68: Energy Melee'  (mid September 2020)

Spoiler

 

• Wait mid September, weren't folks already testing the closed Beta changes for months.
  • Yep, that's just unlucky timing.
• Actually, looking back.. it is accidentally cruel.
  • There is appears to be a chorus of folks not involved in the testing saying one thing.
    • Yay we're being listened to!
  • While another group, who had been doing testing..
    • Wouldn't it be great if ______ . (exactly what was being tested)

 

There's no conspiracy, it's unintentional and simply just bad timing. That said, there should be no surprises to the open beta feedback or what folks say when it does hit live.

 

Note: There is a slew of other changes coming that are also worth checking out. Link to Issue 27 Beta Patch Notes

 

Stay safe out there.

 

p.s. If anyone knows how to become involved earlier the change process, feel free to post some suggestions here. (I think I've been doing it all wrong)

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Troo

[ScarySai]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

What exactly is the point of this thread?

It's not obvious?

[Solarverse]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

Energy Melee Changes, Oh My, oh my, oh my!!

 

Sounds like these have been in the works for months (since spring?). It appears the goal is to add some AoE and try to preserve some of the former Energy Melee glory and give it to Scrappers.

Sounds Grrrreat!

 

If you haven't checked it out and are interested in a sneak peek, it's in open Beta. Maybe give it a spin. (feedback welcomed)

  Reveal hidden contents

Powerset Revamp: Energy Melee (Focused Feedback Thread)

Energy Melee has received a series of changes aimed at improving the performance of the set. Total Focus now acts as an opener for three different Energy Focus combos, including a Total Focus > Energy Transfer combo which provides fast, potent single target damage. Stun has been reworked into Power Crash, a cone attack, in order to provide a small amount of additional AoE capability to the set.

 

Power Changes

•  Barrage
  • If used with Energy Focus: 100% chance for stun and applies a weakening (-special and -regen) effect to the target
•  Energy Punch
  • Recharge increased from 4s to 5s
  • End cost increased from 5.2 to 6.032
  • Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.16
•  Bone Smasher
  • Cast time reduced from 1.5s to 1.27s
•  Power Crash (Replaces Stun)
  • Power Crash is now a minor cone that can hit up to 5 targets (10 for Tankers)
  • No longer takes melee damage sets, now takes PBAoE damage sets (any existing enhancements will remain slotted until the character respecs)
  • If used with Energy Focus: Target cap increased to 10 targets (16 for Tankers)
  • If you previously had Stun in your build, you'll now have Power Crash
  • Stalkers only:
    • This power has a 16s recharge (instead of a 9s recharge for other ATs), with proportional damage and endurance cost increases per the standard damage formulas
    • As Stalkers do not have Whirling Hands, they rely entirely on Power Crash for AoE damage
•  Whirling Hands
  •  Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.1819 (it was slightly below what the damage formula dictated)
•  Total Focus 
  • Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds
  • Total Focus grants a charge of Energy Focus (even if power misses)
  •  Energy Focus
    • Energy Focus is consumed when casting certain Energy Melee powers in order to provide bonus effects (Energy Focus is not consumed if the power misses)
    • Energy Focus expires after 15 seconds
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will also generate a backup Energy Store that will re-activate Energy Focus after the current Energy Focus is used or expires (essentially it provides two stacks of Energy Focus)
•  Energy Transfer
  • Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
  • Damage is now 100% energy
  • Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s
  • If used with Energy Focus: Cast time reduced from 2.67s to 1.0s
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will not only avoid the self-damage, but will actually heals you for 10% of your base max HP

 

What do I think? It's better than what's currently on live Homecoming. Is it the pre-Nerf version updated for today's game some had hoped for, no. It is different and some folks really like it.

 

 

Folks have been writing for a long time: 'Please revisit Energy Melee.' 'Revert the Nerf.' 'Let Scrappers have EM.'

 

Boom a weekly discussion. After 67 weeks of other discussion, finally, the precious. YAY!

'Weekly Discussion 68: Energy Melee'  (mid September 2020)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Wait mid September, weren't folks already testing the closed Beta changes for months.
  • Yep, that's just unlucky timing.
• Actually, looking back.. it is accidentally cruel.
  • There is appears to be a chorus of folks not involved in the testing saying one thing.
    • Yay we're being listened to!
  • While another group, who had been doing testing..
    • Wouldn't it be great if ______ . (exactly what was being tested)

 

There's no conspiracy, it's unintentional and simply just bad timing. That said, there should be no surprises to the open beta feedback or what folks say when it does hit live.

 

Note: There is a slew of other changes coming that are also worth checking out. Link to Issue 27 Beta Patch Notes

 

Stay safe out there.

 

p.s. If anyone knows how to become involved earlier the change process, feel free to post some suggestions here. (I think I've been doing it all wrong)

 

You have no idea just how stoked I am for this, Troo. I have been waiting for this day ever since they first nerfed ET. Energy for both Blasters and Tankers have been my main two characters in this game since the very beginning. When ET took that nerf, it crushed me. I literally quit the game afterwards for about a solid six months before finally returning, and only did so because a friend had asked me to come back. It was not the damage that I loved so much about it, it was the animation...and being forced in to that hideous animation that they had changed it to was just too much. I ended up respecing out of ET and never used it again...until I herd ET was coming back.  Now that it is back, I am sooooo hyped about it. Not only did they give us an optional way to get it back, they added so much more to the set that I am head over heals in love with whoever implemented this fix. If anyone ever says anything bad about them, i'll "cut them!" Hahaha

 

[Troo]

18 hours ago, Solarverse said:

When ET took that nerf..

July 9, 2008
We knew this one would be controversial. There's a new patch hitting the CoX live servers today..

 

The changes that have most players up in arms are the nerf to the stun dealt by Total Focus and an animation change to Energy Transfer, changes that hit the Tank, Brute and Stalker classes. The new animation, while more visually impressive than the old, is slower; an Energy Transfer used to take one second, and now takes 2.67 seconds. (For those that don't know, Energy Transfer is a damaging attack that also has a good chance to stun.)

 

Despite the usual high levels of communication from the developers, some players are unhappy and consider this a crippling nerf; however, nobody seems to be particularly surprised that some form of nerfing has taken place. Energy Melee really was that good.

 

It's so close to being over.

 

 

Patch Notes 7.9.08

Spoiler

Patch Notes 7.9.08

COMBINED NOTES

AI

• Lady Jane should act more intelligently in combat situations now.
• 48 Month Veteran Reward pets should no longer charge into combat. Really.

Animation

• New animation for Super Strength / Punch while flying.

Badges

• Defeating Romulus Nictus should correctly award the Roman badge
• Rularuu weapons now unlocked via Shadow Shard TF badges

Chat

• Fixed condition for chat ban that would cause players to be banned for excessively long times.
• Fixed coalition chat name display to display SG name and player name correctly.
• Fixed a condition where a player could receive messages from a globally ignored player.

Powers

• Energy Blast / Power Burst - Changes to root time for Energy Blast - Power Burst. This does not affect the activation time. It's just something that was broken when 1st and 2nd tier blaster powers had their Activation times shortened.
• Energy Melee / Energy Transfer - Activation time changed from 1.0 seconds to 2.67 seconds.  New Animation and Graphical Effects also made.
• Dark Armor / Dark Embrace - Corrected the activation text to explain it also adds toxic resistance.
• Total Focus: All player versions of Total Focus Disorient Magnitude reduced to 3.
• All versions of Martial Arts Eagles Claw chance to Disorient a target increased from 75% per attack to 100% per attack.
• All versions of Martial Arts Storm Kick now have a 5% greater chance to cause a Critical Hit in all cases.
• FX for Controller and Mastermind Glue Arrow should persist after the initial target's demise now (the Defender version already had this property.)
• Dual Blades / Vengeful Strike: Synched this power's floating numbers to better fit with when the character hits the target.
• Trick Arrow powers should no longer cause weapon redraw issues with Archery (Blaster or Defender) or Mastermind Ninja bow powers.

Tailor / Custom Weapons

• The Rulaaru claws should now be unlockable
• Bowstring on Talsorian bow should now stay attached to the bow

User Interface

• Buff Icon Bugs
  • Fixed Buff Icon display issue where Icons would disappear from Allies before the Buff Timer was over.
  • Fixed Buff Icon display issue where Buff Icons would disappear when a teammate (in the same non-instanced zone) logs out of the game.
  • Fixed Buff Icon display issue where teammates Zoning into a mission at different times caused Buffs Icons to disappear

CITY of HEROES

Powers

Defenders

• Defender / Vigilance will no longer increase the Defender's endurance costs when grouped with teammates with greater than normal Health values.

Scrappers

• Scrapper / Martial Arts / Dragon's Tail - Damage and Endurance cost were slightly too low. These have been adjusted.
• Scrapper / Dual Blades / Vengeful Strike: Added PvP Knockdown suppression to this power

Tankers

• Fixed an issue with Tanker Dark Melee and Dual Blades powersets which allowed "Chance to" enhancements to affect areas of effect, rather than just the target of the attack.
• Tanker / Dual Blades / Vengeful Strike: Added PvP Knockdown suppression to this power.

Tasks

• Safeguard Missions: Burning Daemon should now always spawn at the appropriate level for the mission he is in.
• Gordon Stacy now assigns the second mission in his story arc again.

CITY of VILLAINS

Powers

Arachnos Soldiers

• Bane Spider Cone attacks did not have a max number of targets defined. This has been corrected.
• Shortened the time between the activation and effect for Crab Spider Training - Serum

Arachnos Widows

• Arachnos Widow / Teamwork - Placate should no longer cause redraw with Widow Claw powers.

Brutes

• Brute / Dark Armor / Dark Regeneration: This power should now accept taunt enhancements and enhancement sets.
• Brute / Dark Melee / Touch of Fear: This power should now accept taunt enhancements and enhancement sets.

Dominators

• Dominator / Energy Assault / Power Burst now has red graphical effects

Masterminds

• Mastermind / Mercenaries / Serum - Fixed a typo in this power.

Stalkers

• Stalker / Electrical Melee / Thunder Strike - This power should now accept PBAoE damage sets.
• Changed "%" to "percent" in the Stalker/Assassination inherent ability. Some information would be displayed incorrectly because of the % sign..

Veteran Rewards

• Fixed typo in villain veteran title from "Vengful" to "Vengeful"

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Troo

[Carnifax]

As a Fire/NRG domi I despise the nerf coming to Whirling Hands. 

 

I accept the NRG Stored WH damage is a bit much. I really hate the fact their solution is to change how it works completely.

 

Why would a Dominator slotting for high recharge care that now it recharges instantly on NRG Release? That's like the least useful outcome for me.

 

A screen full of NRG Release messages looks really excellent. This change... Doesn't. 

 

So no. I'm not looking forward to it. At all

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

As a Fire/NRG domi I despise the nerf coming to Whirling Hands. 

 

I accept the NRG Stored WH damage is a bit much. I really hate the fact their solution is to change how it works completely.

 

Why would a Dominator slotting for high recharge care that now it recharges instantly on NRG Release? That's like the least useful outcome for me.

 

A screen full of NRG Release messages looks really excellent. This change... Doesn't. 

 

So no. I'm not looking forward to it. At all

Sounds like a valid complaint. You could have (I'm sure you have missed your chance by now) went to those forums when it was up for discussion and expressed your concerns and perhaps requested a 50% damage bonus or something in its place. otherwise though, you shouldn't have it too much since nothing really changes for you on a Dom. So at least it's not a nerf. It could e worse.

 

[Carnifax]

Just now, Solarverse said:

Sounds like a valid complaint. You could have (I'm sure you have missed your chance by now) went to those forums when it was up for discussion and expressed your concerns and perhaps requested a 50% damage bonus or something in its place. otherwise though, you shouldn't have it too much since nothing really changes for you on a Dom. So at least it's not a nerf. It could e worse.

 

Well yes. I could have. And i did. Word for word about 2 weeks ago. 

 

It's a total nerf. Aoe Dpa is much, much worse now on a set which struggles for aoe damage.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

July 9, 2008
We knew this one would be controversial. There's a new patch hitting the CoX live servers today..

 

The changes that have most players up in arms are... ...an animation change to Energy Transfer... The new animation, while more visually impressive than the old...

They were so full of it!!! More visually impressive? To who, a monkey scratching its behind??? I don't even take Bitter Freeze Ray just because of that animation!!! The ONLY reason that was nerfed was due to PvP and Stalkers running around 2 shotting people in PvP....what really pissed me off is that the Devs said they would not nerf anything due to PvP but then turned right around and did it anyway, after feeding us lame excuse after lame excuse that dodged the real reasons they were nerfing crap. Anyone with half a brain could see right through them.

Quote

It's so close to being over.

Thank...God!  😄

Edited November 18, 2020 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, Carnifax said:

Well yes. I could have. And i did. Word for word about 2 weeks ago. 

 

It's a total nerf. Aoe Dpa is much, much worse now on a set which struggles for aoe damage.

Wait, didn't Whirling Hands get a Damage increase from scale 1 to 1.1819? That's actually a buff. As far as I know, there has been no nerf.

[Carnifax]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

Wait, didn't Whirling Hands get a Damage increase from scale 1 to 1.1819? That's actually a buff. As far as I know, there has been no nerf.

The way Whirling releases now has changed. From the really cool "screen full of NRG releases" and bonus damage to Water Blasts insta-recharge mechanic. Which domis don't particularly need.

 

So an energy releasing Whirlings Dpa has been effectively halved (or, if you are right nearly halved). 

 

Animation time is God in this game, especially on a busy set like Dominator ones. So eating up more of it is a poor outcome for a domi. 

 

Plus it's gone back to looking miserable. Like I said visually a screen of Release messages made me feel powerful. 

 

Now it'll be just an "abuse procs" power. 

[Solarverse]

Just now, Carnifax said:

The way Whirling releases now has changed. From the really cool "screen full of NRG releases" and bonus damage to Water Blasts insta-recharge mechanic. Which domis don't particularly need.

 

So an energy releasing Whirlings Dpa has been effectively halved (or, if you are right nearly halved). 

 

Animation time is God in this game, especially on a busy set like Dominator ones. So eating up more of it is a poor outcome for a domi. 

 

Plus it's gone back to looking miserable. Like I said visually a screen of Release messages made me feel powerful. 

 

Now it'll be just an "abuse procs" power. 

Oh wait, never played Energy on a Dom. However, if memory serves, Doms had a special proc where if the enemies were stunned it would do proc damage or something, right? If so, are you saying that no longer applies? Have you tried taking this info directly to Captain Powerhouse in a PM?

[Carnifax]

15 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Oh wait, never played Energy on a Dom. However, if memory serves, Doms had a special proc where if the enemies were stunned it would do proc damage or something, right? If so, are you saying that no longer applies? Have you tried taking this info directly to Captain Powerhouse in a PM?

Nope, but he answered our concerns in his thread saying "This is better". It's not. I tested it before wandering on here and being a grump about it. I understand his reasoning, I just don't agree with it (like I said visually a screen of "Energy Release" is so satisfying currently). 

 

 

Weirdly, with the upcoming issue my need for proc abuse is gonna go up (Whirling Hands and Acid Arrow). 

 

I don't think any of the changes to how specific melee powers work went down particularly well. Eagles Claw and Touch of Fear have also been changed and the same thread is awash with complaints about them too (I don't use either so had no useful feedback on them). 

 

No-one denies the current version is a bit much. Issue is rather than just changing the bonus damage to ~60% of what it was we now get a totally different mechanic. As a programmer that irks me too. If the mechanicism is "When you store Energy then the next time you cast one of these 3 powers it will do bonus damage" that's nice and consistent. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Carnifax

[Solarverse]

Just now, Carnifax said:

Nope, but he answered our concerns in his thread saying "This is better". It's not. I tested it before wandering on here and being a grump about it. I understand his reasoning, I just don't agree with it (like I said visually a screen of "Energy Release" is so satisfying currently). 

 

 

Weirdly, with the upcoming issue my need for proc abuse is gonna go up (Whirling Hands and Acid Arrow). 

 

I don't think any of the changes to how melee powers work went down particularly well. Eagles Claw and Touch of Fear have also been changed and the same thread is awash with complaints about them too (I don't use either so had no useful feedback on them). 

 

No-one denies the current version is a bit much. Issue is rather than just changing the bonus damage to ~60% of what it was we now get a totally different mechanic. As a programmer that irks me too. If the mechanicism is "When you store Energy then the next time you cast one of these 3 powers it will do bonus damage" that's nice and consistent. 

Yeah, that sucks, man. If I played Doms I would be a bit more upset about it so all I can do at this point is sympathize. I don't understand why they could not give you the buff that is coming while letting you maintain what you already had. But, I'm not a Dev either and I have no idea what they discuss at their round table.  😞

[nihilii]

22 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Eagles Claw and Touch of Fear have also been changed and the same thread is awash with complaints about them too (I don't use either so had no useful feedback on them). 

To be fair, the Eagle's Claw change was reverted... which is ironic as this was the one change that was actually a massive buff.

 

But I like to give the devs credit, so I'm guessing they saw the EC change wasn't liked by concept/casual players AND was too powerful in the hands of minmaxers, hence the revert.

 

Still... It would have been nice to have MA topping the DPS charts for once.

[Solarverse]

Just now, nihilii said:

To be fair, the Eagle's Claw change was reverted... which is ironic as this was the one change that was actually a massive buff.

 

But I like to give the devs credit, so I'm guessing they saw the EC change wasn't liked by concept/casual players AND was too powerful in the hands of minmaxers, hence the revert.

 

Still... It would have been nice to have MA topping the DPS charts for once.

Right? MA has always been a bit subpar IMO. It's still enjoyable to play due to theme, but not exactly the brightest crayon in the box of an assortment of colors.

[macskull]

12 hours ago, Solarverse said:

The ONLY reason that was nerfed was due to PvP and Stalkers running around 2 shotting people in PvP....what really pissed me off is that the Devs said they would not nerf anything due to PvP but then turned right around and did it anyway, after feeding us lame excuse after lame excuse that dodged the real reasons they were nerfing crap. Anyone with half a brain could see right through them.

[Solarverse]

5 minutes ago, macskull said:

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Issue_4

 

 

Powers and AI

"Numerous changes have been made to powers specifically for player-vs-player situations, as well as many changes that affect all parts of the game. "

[Omega-202]

26 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Issue_4

 

 

Powers and AI

"Numerous changes have been made to powers specifically for player-vs-player situations, as well as many changes that affect all parts of the game. "

That's completely irrelevant to Stalker changes.  Stalkers didn't exist in Issue 4. 

 

That's not a citation, that's disinformation.  Don't be like that.  

Edited November 18, 2020 by Omega-202

[macskull]

10 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

stuff

It's clear to me after even a cursory glance over the patch notes you linked that you simply looked for a sentence which would align with your claim while completely disregarding the rest of those patch notes.  If you'd read them beyond the one sentence you would have found an extensive list of powers changes (which were buffs) and then a separate section of PvP-only changes which had zero impact on PvE.

 

If you were referring specifically to the Energy Melee changes (which was a reasonable assumption considering the rest of your post):

• Those changes happened during Issue 12, not with the release of Issue 4.
• Energy Transfer's animation time was increased because its DPA was far too good which was just as much a PvE concern as a PvP one.
• Lowering the stun magnitude of Total Focus was a change that had essentially no impact on PvP,
• If the changes had really been solely due to PvP, they would have been reverted in PvE in Issue 13 when the ability to completely separate PvE and PvP powers was implemented.

Another point that I enjoy bringing up: ever since Issue 4's launch there has been exactly one power which was nerfed in PvE solely for PvP reasons - Hurricane.

[Solarverse]

24 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

That's completely irrelevant to Stalker changes.  Stalkers didn't exist in Issue 4. 

 

That's not a citation, that's disinformation.  Don't be like that.  

Oh my god, dude. Whatever. I made the point that the Devs said that they would never fricken change any powers due to PvP, they said this when they first announced that they were going to implement PvP and players were worried that PvP would bring changes to the PvE aspect of the game. The Devs said that would not happen and that the game balance would not be dictated by PvP...I showed proof that it was, so get the hell over yourself. Oh, by the way, Energy Transfer was nerfed because of Stalkers in PvP. You know it and I know it.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

23 minutes ago, macskull said:

It's clear to me after even a cursory glance over the patch notes you linked that you simply looked for a sentence which would align with your claim while completely disregarding the rest of those patch notes.  If you'd read them beyond the one sentence you would have found an extensive list of powers changes (which were buffs) and then a separate section of PvP-only changes which had zero impact on PvE.

 

If you were referring specifically to the Energy Melee changes (which was a reasonable assumption considering the rest of your post):

• Those changes happened during Issue 12, not with the release of Issue 4.
• Energy Transfer's animation time was increased because its DPA was far too good which was just as much a PvE concern as a PvP one.
• Lowering the stun magnitude of Total Focus was a change that had essentially no impact on PvP,
• If the changes had really been solely due to PvP, they would have been reverted in PvE in Issue 13 when the ability to completely separate PvE and PvP powers was implemented.

Another point that I enjoy bringing up: ever since Issue 4's launch there has been exactly one power which was nerfed in PvE solely for PvP reasons - Hurricane.

Oh, so power travel power suppression didn't effect PvE? Placate was not nerfed due to PvP? Various power stats were not changed due to PvP? Energy Transfer wasn't a nerf due to PvP? Okay, man. Whatever you all want to say. I'm done with this conversation.

 

Edit: And before any of you have anything else slick to say, let me add this...

"Travel powers will no longer be suppressed by toggle powers. Flyspeed of Fly, Speed Buff of Super Speed and JumpHeight/Distance buff of Super Leap will now only suppress if you use a 'click' attack powers (toggles like Enervating Field and Invincibility will no longer cause Suppression). The penalty was too great for players who rely on toggle powers to protect themselves."

 

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Issue_5

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Solarverse

[Lines]

While I'm not entirely sure what the original intent of this thread is, I don't think this is a direction it should keep going down...

[Solarverse]

Just now, Lines said:

While I'm not entirely sure what the original intent of this thread is, I don't think this is a direction it should keep going down...

I think this is piss off Solarverse day is what I think it is. But yeah, I agree....this went from a positive thread to a call out thread in 2 seconds flat.

[macskull]

11 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

more stuff

There's a difference between "thing gets nerfed in PvE only because of PvP" and "thing gets nerfed in PvE because of PvE and PvP." My point was the former case has happened only one time ever in the 16-and-a-half-year history of this game, while the vast majority of nerfs that people point to and go "see! PvP ruins everything!" happened because of the latter case. To wit:

• Travel power suppression absolutely affected PvE and I did not say otherwise. Pretending it was introduced just because of PvP is pretty disingenuous though. Starting with Issue 13, PvP had a different implementation of travel suppression than PvE yet PvE travel suppression was kept in the game. If it was designed to be a PvP-only nerf it would have been reverted.
• I can't find any references to a placate nerf in the patch notes - what are you referring to?

On the other hand, here are some quality-of-life changes that happened as a result of PvP changes and ended up making their way over to PvE:

• Non-offensive toggles not dropping when mezzed
• Melee attack range increased from 5ft to 7ft and made unaffected by -range
• Tanker/Scrapper/Brute taunt powers deal -75% range to affected targets

You might interpret my posting as being confrontational, but I'm honestly tired of having to constantly correct misinformation about this game's relationship between powers balance and PvP.