Tanker Primary "Tough Test"

[Galaxy Brain]

Real World Test 3: Malta

 

 

Edit:

 

Granite is 6min here as opposed to the 8 i gave it prior as though immortal, it was taking licks noticeably compared to council/etc.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Sovera]

Poor Fire Aura...

[StriderIV]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

Poor Fire Aura...

True, BUT you also kill much faster =]

 

Excuse me: “arrest” much faster.

Edited February 28, 2021 by StriderIV

[Sovera]

Just now, StriderIV said:

True, BUT you also kill much faster =]

 

Excuse me: “arrest” much faster.

It's true. Was playing with a friend at +2x8and it was run to mobs, build up, Burn, Dragon Tail. Keep hitting things, Burn is back up so use Fiery Embrace first. 

 

I did get killed once. Damn those seers. They were doing -recovery, -defense, and I think maybe -recharge. ON TOP OF TERRORIZE! Watch my defense plummet, and being psi damage no resists to help, while my character cowers in place.

 

*angry fist shaking*

[StriderIV]

9 hours ago, Sovera said:

It's true. Was playing with a friend at +2x8and it was run to mobs, build up, Burn, Dragon Tail. Keep hitting things, Burn is back up so use Fiery Embrace first. 

 

I did get killed once. Damn those seers. They were doing -recovery, -defense, and I think maybe -recharge. ON TOP OF TERRORIZE! Watch my defense plummet, and being psi damage no resists to help, while my character cowers in place.

 

*angry fist shaking*

Duuuuude that is just the worst series of events 😂 at least with Fire/MA, you look cool as heck while going down, right? Haha

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Duuuuude that is just the worst series of events 😂 at least with Fire/MA, you look cool as heck while going down, right? Haha

At least I got to test my endurance consumption with a small change I made and it looks good, but yeah. I'm not even sure if Terrorize drops toggles or not but it's a case for always having a couple breakfrees in the inspiration tray. I just always run that arc at -1x1 to speed it up and my friend needed XP so we did it at +2x8. Now I'm more aware I can be quicker on the breakfree usage if I face them again.

[Galaxy Brain]

On a second thought here.... is 4 min way too generous a cut-off?

 

Edit:

testing it out, it seems just sitting in the middle of the spawns (untargetable/invincible for pure offense testing) with Fire/Rad, just alternating Burn/Atom Smasher/Fiery Embrace/Build Up/+2 Damage Auras with basic slotting would take out all but the bosses in about 2 minutes on average at +4/x8. Given this is super minimal effort, we could assume maybe 2:30 / 3:00 would be a more reasonable "immortal" line in practice?

Edited March 1, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Galaxy Brain]

Real World Test 4: Arachnos

 

 

 

 

At this point, we have 5 different results per set at +4/x8, lets see how they stack up...

 

 

 

 

 

If we look at it with a 2:30 immortality cutoff:

 

 

 

 

Ends up a little closer together

 

 

[Sovera]

I have nothing to disagree with these tests. After several embarrassing deaths in DA due to my inexperience with the content there is nothing to disagree in that FA survives by killing fast. There is no standing the middle of a pack and AFK to go fetch a drink. It's kill or be killed, and with IOs and smart play (Barrier at the right moment, targeting key mobs) we can go all almost-Scrapper-levels-of-damage at the cost of no AFKing in the middle of a pack like other sets can achieve.

 

For someone who chose to play a Tanker this might not be an acceptable trade off. People tend to pick a Tanker to be close to impervious.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

For someone who chose to play a Tanker this might not be an acceptable trade off. People tend to pick a Tanker to be close to impervious.

....actually I made my Fire/ tanker because I knew I'd get more survival while getting a bunch of damage still lol

[Sovera]

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

....actually I made my Fire/ tanker because I knew I'd get more survival while getting a bunch of damage still lol

I'm close to impervious with mine, but it implies knowing the content (which in turn implies having died to it) and 'actively impervious', not just passively able to shrug damage.

 

For example. I did an AE arc a friend of a friend created and died to Broadsword/Dark Armor EB with its similar themed boss henchmen. Broadsword is not particularly dangerous - though it hits hard - but how did they get me? Dark Armor's stun aura stacked between them all. I would get small moments where I'd be CCed but ignored them. But when I killed the EB it used the DA ressurect which.... stuns 😄 So the remainder of the bosses' stun aura + ressurect stun detoggled me long enough to kill me. Embarrassing death. Next time I would know to kill the small bosses first, or, smarter, use a breakfree pre-emptively at the start of the fight.

 

I'm fine with these occasional deaths since the damage pumped out is obscene, and not just 'for a Tanker'.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I'm fine with these occasional deaths

And this is where I falter. I hate faceplanting even when I'm on a squishy being stupid and I can laugh it off, somewhere, in the recesses of my brain, I scream "FAILURE!"

[The_Warpact]

Couldn't you really simplify the test by having a tank run through Hami?

Whatever set gets the most runs through or make it the farthest would be the toughest.

 

Example

Paul - "hey I ran 20 feet into hami on my dark tank before I died".

Dave - "that ain't nuthin that sumbitch Larry ran all the way through hami and back again on his granite tank"

Charlie-  *laughing* "at least it wasn't like Keith who died on his way here with his ice tank"

All - "lol"

 

 

😜

[Galaxy Brain]

3 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Couldn't you really simplify the test by having a tank run through Hami?

Whatever set gets the most runs through or make it the farthest would be the toughest.

 

Example

Paul - "hey I ran 20 feet into hami on my dark tank before I died".

Dave - "that ain't nuthin that sumbitch Larry ran all the way through hami and back again on his granite tank"

Charlie-  *laughing* "at least it wasn't like Keith who died on his way here with his ice tank"

All - "lol"

 

 

😜

I mean sorta, but that is a hyper specific example.

 

At least by running through actual enemy mobs you'd encounter a lot of you get a gist of what'd on average the toughest as a general character.

[Sovera]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

And this is where I falter. I hate faceplanting even when I'm on a squishy being stupid and I can laugh it off, somewhere, in the recesses of my brain, I scream "FAILURE!"

Oh yeah. I get pretty pissy. Furthermore all the deaths in DA were avoidable which double pissy me, but that I blame on the lack of difficult content outside of DA that left me fat and happy. Gotta be lean and hungry to play FA.

[The_Warpact]

13 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean sorta, but that is a hyper specific example.

 

At least by running through actual enemy mobs you'd encounter a lot of you get a gist of what'd on average the toughest as a general character.

Yeah I know I was just reading some of the comments and thought of a humorous approach. 

[Galaxy Brain]

So, thinking about it the groups all have had similar results so far with mostly the same sets on top and bottom... what X factors could we start to include? The suite of "given" IO's with the 3% defs, Scaling res, regen, LotG, etc?

 

[Saikochoro]

4 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

So, thinking about it the groups all have had similar results so far with mostly the same sets on top and bottom... what X factors could we start to include? The suite of "given" IO's with the 3% defs, Scaling res, regen, LotG, etc?

 

I think the further we push the test the closer we will get to each sets potential. However, then it becomes subject to criticism on what a normal set build includes. I don’t think we will be able to get to full sets because then it becomes too variable in people’s thought in approach. Plus at that point pretty much all sets become immortal. 
 

I think adding in as many LOTG as the build could take, the defense uniques, the resistance uniques are probably not super arguable. So that could be a good next step. 
 

Another step could be to add in two common secondaries. Do the tests with martial arts just spamming storm kick. Do the test with dark melee just spamming siphon life. See how that alters the results.  
 

Last thing I would do is add the tanker + resist proc into storm kick/siphon life and see how that alters the results. Not sure we can get much deeper into the test. 

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, Saikochoro said:

I think the further we push the test the closer we will get to each sets potential. However, then it becomes subject to criticism on what a normal set build includes. I don’t think we will be able to get to full sets because then it becomes too variable in people’s thought in approach. Plus at that point pretty much all sets become immortal. 
 

I think adding in as many LOTG as the build could take, the defense uniques, the resistance uniques are probably not super arguable. So that could be a good next step. 
 

Another step could be to add in two common secondaries. Do the tests with martial arts just spamming storm kick. Do the test with dark melee just spamming siphon life. See how that alters the results.  
 

Last thing I would do is add the tanker + resist proc into storm kick/siphon life and see how that alters the results. Not sure we can get much deeper into the test. 

In the interest of time due to having to rebuilt a ton of tankers, I could also just go in with like 1 luck Insp at all times, or a tray of X respites to emulate those factors?

[Saikochoro]

12 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

In the interest of time due to having to rebuilt a ton of tankers, I could also just go in with like 1 luck Insp at all times, or a tray of X respites to emulate those factors?

The inspirations would be slightly more powerful, but would emulate storm kick with the ATO fine I think. I wonder how you could emulate the small, but oft occurring heal in siphon life though. This would disproportionately benefit sets like shield/SR, but could be an important factor as many try to plug the healing hole in those sets. 
 

Maybe include that panacea proc and power transfer proc to emulate that? Might not be quite as powerful, but is something. 

[Galaxy Brain]

Well, Siphon Life is a 10% heal every 10s at base (though it requires a tohit check). A small green is a 25% heal instantly, and can be rapid fired... tho we could also say it could be fired off every 25s to be roughly equal HPS wise. Siphon life in theory could also be buffed to a 20% heal every 10s too which is just about equitable given with rech it'd be on-demand too.

[Saikochoro]

41 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Well, Siphon Life is a 10% heal every 10s at base (though it requires a tohit check). A small green is a 25% heal instantly, and can be rapid fired... tho we could also say it could be fired off every 25s to be roughly equal HPS wise. Siphon life in theory could also be buffed to a 20% heal every 10s too which is just about equitable given with rech it'd be on-demand too.

That true. Not sure how much it is buffed, but I always have the equivalent of a level 50 healing IO in siphon life to buff it somewhat. 

 

So, one test with def/resist inspirations simulating storm kick + ato. Another test with healing/resist inspirations simulating siphon life + ato. Those would be interesting to see what happens. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Saikochoro

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

In the interest of time due to having to rebuilt a ton of tankers, I could also just go in with like 1 luck Insp at all times, or a tray of X respites to emulate those factors?

Basically, full IO sets make EVERYTHING an "edge case".

While there may be SOME holes in even VERY optimized builds, they aren't enough to drag those tanks down below the immortality line.

And while people REALLY love this game, trying to quantify the upsides and downsides of literally HUNDREDS of minutely different builds per-set combo, across all possible combos is not something anyone within hailing distance of sanity wants to do if they aren't getting paid.

Because at that point it stops becoming a fun passtime, and becomes a JOB.

[Sovera]

Not sure if the extra tests will really add much in my humble opinion. The tests are already of just academic value since we are not in the habit of jumping into the middle of enemies and then AFK. That some sets are able to do this with impunity is good to know but the info was not really that surprising (granite armor first :D).

 

And once we start adding secondaries, welp.

 

The ultimate 'tough test' ends being soloing the 801 series. That's the full monty. Perhaps a no incarnate rule (which would put me out right away since I need Barrier to get past the ever present defense debuffing) and/or inspiration use.

[Saikochoro]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Not sure if the extra tests will really add much in my humble opinion. The tests are already of just academic value since we are not in the habit of jumping into the middle of enemies and then AFK. That some sets are able to do this with impunity is good to know but the info was not really that surprising (granite armor first :D).

 

And once we start adding secondaries, welp.

 

The ultimate 'tough test' ends being soloing the 801 series. That's the full monty. Perhaps a no incarnate rule (which would put me out right away since I need Barrier to get past the ever present defense debuffing) and/or inspiration use.

Yeah we can’t get into full sets because there is just too much build variety and everything is basically immortal at that point anyway. 
 

You are right though about adding in secondaries. It would be interesting to see how MA and DM would boost certain sets, but then it’s not just about the primary.