Fixing Gravity Control's Lift and Propel Problem

[srmalloy]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Claws/Regen was the most popular Scrapper set back in 2019, however, we all know that is a horrible combination in functionality.

But it was the reason Regen got nerfed -- it could handle spawns of +8 mobs without a problem. It has to be good. Never mind that the test server that this was done on didn't have the 'purple patch', so it was hugely overperforming, it has to be still good, right?     😄

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

But it was the reason Regen got nerfed -- it could handle spawns of +8 mobs without a problem. It has to be good. Never mind that the test server that this was done on didn't have the 'purple patch', so it was hugely overperforming, it has to be still good, right?     😄

In all fairness, I think it was the Spines/Regen Combo that got it ultimately nerfed. The Devs never seemed to give it much thought until Spines/Regen Scrappers were farming maps, heh.

[oedipus_tex]

8 hours ago, Naraka said:

Have you ever got that feeling people are just bored so they start conversations about little inconsequential things like the meaning behind the last episode of season 3 Rick and Morty or if a hybrid attack/control power could be swapped around for more control that is not needed?

 

 I realize on the Suggestions forum players are 100% meaner than other boards, but I think we'll all be happier if we assume everyone is posting in good faith. Thanks.

Edited December 10, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[AxerJ]

So, gravity power related -- could we please have a tier 9 Gravity Assault power called "Reverse Gravity" that just launches a single target literally thousands of feet into the air? It could have a long cooldown, whatever. 

[Uun]

10 hours ago, AxerJ said:

So, gravity power related -- could we please have a tier 9 Gravity Assault power called "Reverse Gravity" that just launches a single target literally thousands of feet into the air? It could have a long cooldown, whatever. 

You can pretty much do this with Wormhole - just point the exit target straight up.

[Replacement]

Half of the name of this subforum is also "Feedback" so you shouldn't be concerned on that front.

On 12/8/2020 at 4:25 AM, oedipus_tex said:

If we could go back to 2006 or so when Gravity Control for Doms was being constructed, Gravity Control would lose Lift and Propel in favor of some kind of control power and Lift/Propel would go in a "Gravity Assault" set. But since that's probably not in the cards, some kind of solution is hopefully attainable. 

Agreed.

[Galaxy Brain]

Gonna quote myself from the Ice Control thread:

 

Do Controller and Dominator versions of sets need to be the same?

 

I could see Controller Grav control being the same, but then Dominator Grav has different stats with the expectation that assault sets are used.

[oedipus_tex]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Gonna quote myself from the Ice Control thread:

 

Do Controller and Dominator versions of sets need to be the same?

 

I could see Controller Grav control being the same, but then Dominator Grav has different stats with the expectation that assault sets are used.

 

 

I don't think there's a rule against it, no. 

 

A few ideas were tossed around when Castle was updating Gravity around issue 20. One of them was for Propel and/or Lift to gain extra utility when used in Domination mode, e.g. throwing nearby enemies into the air or creating a "knock up patch" in the spot the power lands that continually hurls enemies in the air. There were a few other ideas tossed around, some involving Dimension Shift. The game wasn't around too much longer after the changes, so nothing much came of it.

[Galaxy Brain]

8 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I don't think there's a rule against it, no. 

 

A few ideas were tossed around when Castle was updating Gravity around issue 20. One of them was for Propel and/or Lift to gain extra utility when used in Domination mode, e.g. throwing nearby enemies into the air or creating a "knock up patch" in the spot the power lands that continually hurls enemies in the air. There were a few other ideas tossed around, some involving Dimension Shift. The game wasn't around too much longer after the changes, so nothing much came of it.

Moreso in general for all of us brainstorming as it seems people see "Gravity Control" as it's own thing where any change would effect both AT's. Even something like Dominator Lift and Propel being much longer recharge but hit much harder / AoE would be really cool and make it feel different.

[AxerJ]

16 hours ago, Uun said:

You can pretty much do this with Wormhole - just point the exit target straight up.

Nay, wormhole is great fun, but can't go as high as I was imagining. Even max KB-slotted Lift brings lvl 1s up to the top of small buildings -- I'm imagining a tier 9 that launches even cons into the sky, max map height, as if the gravity acting on them has suddenly reversed. They should probably disappear at max height to simulate continuing to fall upward. It would essentially be an outdoor death spell for single targets - exclude AVs, heroes, and giant monsters, fine. I just want to see some seriously extreme gravity alteration! Indoor -- it could just be extreme damage as they hit the ceiling, along with a quite long mag 4 hold pinning them against whatever surface they hit above them. 

 

Reverse Gravity, Tier 9 Gravity Assault (or amend to Gravity Control =))) -- Yes!

Edited December 11, 2020 by AxerJ

[Uun]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:40 AM, AxerJ said:

Nay, wormhole is great fun, but can't go as high as I was imagining. Even max KB-slotted Lift brings lvl 1s up to the top of small buildings -- I'm imagining a tier 9 that launches even cons into the sky, max map height, as if the gravity acting on them has suddenly reversed. They should probably disappear at max height to simulate continuing to fall upward. It would essentially be an outdoor death spell for single targets - exclude AVs, heroes, and giant monsters, fine. I just want to see some seriously extreme gravity alteration! Indoor -- it could just be extreme damage as they hit the ceiling, along with a quite long mag 4 hold pinning them against whatever surface they hit above them. 

 

Reverse Gravity, Tier 9 Gravity Assault (or amend to Gravity Control =))) -- Yes!

I feel like this was changed at some point. Back on live I was able to send mobs clear across the map.

[ninja surprise]

What needs fixing on Lift is implementing guaranteed ragdoll. Right now critters occasionally get lifted and stand up and attack during the entire animation, land on their feet, and continue attacking.

 

What needs fixed on Propel is a bit of powerset customization to let you pick what you propel. I want to make it propel Loki so I can do "Get help!"

 

I think it's great that there's a high-damage Control set.

[oedipus_tex]

Propel isn't really a high damage power in the scheme of things. Without Impact it deals DPA roughly between Ice Bolt and Ice Blast. Impact makes things a bit better, and brings it up a bit, but casting Gravity Distortion is slow and doesn't naturally fit into a Dominator's attack chain like it does a Controller's.

 

 

 

Most Dominators would be better off skipping Propel entirely. It's a good blast for Controllers because Controllers don't have a secondary devoted to damage. Basically Gravity Control close the gap on Dominator damage for Controllers but offers little for Dominators other than some extra damage from Lift.

 

Maybe the intent was for Dominators to be skipping Propel or for the cool animation to justify taking it, but I sort of doubt that.

 

Could be fixed by allowing the knockdown splash effect to do some damage. Dominators do not have access to many spherical AoE blasts so at least that would be adding something, while maintaining the "Gravity sacrifices control for blast capability" equation. Right now on Dominators it mainly just sacrifices control capability for slim returns. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[VashNKnives]

As someone who recently leveled a grav/rad/mace dom with a fully I/O'd high-end build and as someone who mained a grav/rad controller 15 years ago with every other control set under my belt since (though I never made it to 50 with ice control).... I can vouch that grav is still weak on AoE controls due in large part to dimension shift being so situational and team unfriendly. Don't get me wrong, I still plan on teaming and incarnating my new dom. However, grav could really use the this or that power treatment that super reflexes got with practiced brawler. 

 

I would think a choice between a slow/ knockdown/crushing aura and dimension shift during power progression would give the set the extra AoE it is lacking without loading its deck.

 

Btw, I did skip propel and take lift and distortion on my build. Unless propel does AoE damage I could not justify it on a dom. Unless maybe the ff proc goes off more than with lift. Though I have lift slotted with no recharge - 3 thunderstrike, the ff proc, and the purple ranged proc - and the ff proc goes off regularly. I then use lift as a filler in single target attack chains. Singularity adds distortion if I don't so impact damage happens regularly.

Edited December 28, 2020 by VashNKnives