An eye opener... Calystix?

[Ultimo]

So, I'm on my Bots/FF Mastermind.  I'm doing missions leading up to fighting this guy Calystix the Shaper.  He's a red conn elite boss in this mission.

 

So, I buff up my bots, and send them to the attack.  He conjures 4 coral critters.  They attack ONCE and wipe my bots out.  ALL at once, all oneshotted.

So, I retreat, resummon and go back.  I spread out the bots, and then attack again, expecting to keep them out of the AOEs that oneshotted them.  The bots engage and are all immediately oneshotted.  My summon powers hadn't even recharged yet.  I repeated the process 4 times, then gave up.  There's just no way to withstand the kind of damage he's doing.

 

Is there some trick to this guy I'm not seeing?  I've been all through the map looking for something that might be buffing him, 800 damage per attack seems rather extreme... and that's his PETS.

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

So, I'm on my Bots/FF Mastermind.  I'm doing missions leading up to fighting this guy Calystix the Shaper.  He's a red conn elite boss in this mission.

 

So, I buff up my bots, and send them to the attack.  He conjures 4 coral critters.  They attack ONCE and wipe my bots out.  ALL at once, all oneshotted.

So, I retreat, resummon and go back.  I spread out the bots, and then attack again, expecting to keep them out of the AOEs that oneshotted them.  The bots engage and are all immediately oneshotted.  My summon powers hadn't even recharged yet.  I repeated the process 4 times, then gave up.  There's just no way to withstand the kind of damage he's doing.

 

Is there some trick to this guy I'm not seeing?  I've been all through the map looking for something that might be buffing him, 800 damage per attack seems rather extreme... and that's his PETS.

I've done that arc many times on various Brutes.  Never had an issue.  I mean, he is an AV.  No pushover.  I do not know MMs.  Is there a way you can put them in bodyguard mode and summon some temp helpers from P2W, then start slinging envenomed daggers at him or something?

[Ultimo]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I've done that arc many times on various Brutes.  Never had an issue.  I mean, he is an AV.  No pushover.  I do not know MMs.  Is there a way you can put them in bodyguard mode and summon some temp helpers from P2W, then start slinging envenomed daggers at him or something?

Dunno... he's doing an awful lot of damage, I thought something in the caves might be buffing him... like I say, every attack is strong enough to oneshot my bots... even the Assault Bot goes down on the first hit.  That's not usual.

[Black Zot]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I've done that arc many times on various Brutes.  Never had an issue.  I mean, he is an AV.  No pushover.  I do not know MMs.  Is there a way you can put them in bodyguard mode and summon some temp helpers from P2W, then start slinging envenomed daggers at him or something?

 

Against that much damage, bodyguard mode is suicide.

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Dunno... he's doing an awful lot of damage, I thought something in the caves might be buffing him... like I say, every attack is strong enough to oneshot my bots... even the Assault Bot goes down on the first hit.  That's not usual.

is it the type of damage he is doing that is leveling your bots?  do the "team resist" inspirations armor up your bots?

 

[Snarky]

here are Calystix powers.  i could not easily find a writeup on the guardians he summons.  nost Coralax are s/l (water) and a bit of psi here and there. i am guessing the psi powers are wrecking the bots:

Calystix the Shaper

Calystix the Shaper
Main Article: Calystix the Shaper

Calystix the Shaper is the high priest of an ancient cult to the sea-goddess Merulina. He has formed a 'Cult of the Shaper' on Sharkhead Isle in order to free an ancient terror which is trapped beneath the island.

Powers

PsychicBlast Subdue.png Subdue Ranged, Psionic, Foe Immobilize
Subdue deals moderate damage and may leave the targeted foe Immobilized for a brief time. Immobilized foes can not move but can still attack.

PsychicBlast PsychicScream.png Psychic Scream (Ranged) Cone, Psionic, Foe -Recharge
The howl of Psionic energy resonates in the mind of all foes within its conical area of effect.

PsychicBlast TelekineticBlast.png Telekinetic Blast Ranged, Moderate Damage, (Smash/Psionic), Foe Knockback
You can use Telekinesis to Blast a targeted foe with the power of your mind. This attack deals Smashing and Psionic damage, and can knock your opponent back. Damage: Moderate. Recharge: Moderate

PsychicBlast WillDomination.png Will Domination Ranged, Psionic, Foe Sleep
This powerful attack is so painful, it usually renders its target inconscious. The victim is asleep, but will awaken if disturbed.

PsychicBlast ScrambleThoughts.png Scramble Thoughts (Ranged, Psionic) Foe Disorient
Painfully scrambles the synapses of a targeted foe, leaving him dramatically Disoriented for a short duration. Deals a little Psionic Damage. Damage: Minor, Recharge: Slow.

Power Missing.png No Melee attacks
Calystix doesen´t have any Melee attacks at all

Paramilitary DraftArmy.png Summon Coral Guardians Summon
Summons Coral Guardians to fight for you.

Empathy Resurrect.png Summon Healing Wave Resurrect
Healing Wave revives all nearby dead players as well as completely restoring the Health and Endurance of all players.

 

[The_Warpact]

My suggestion is slot the various bots with the res/def procs, make sure your keeping up on deflection/insulation + dispersion bubble on.

Be aggressive to protect your bots, use daggers, and realistically to keep him off his game knock him around with force bubble that way you and the bots can move as one for offensive and defensive capabilities. 

If necessary don't be afraid to bring along a friend especially a debuff toon to make short work of him.

[Coyote]

The Coralax do a lot of damage in melee, because they're damage-oriented mobs. Almost no debuffing or status effects (a bit of knockback). So if you let them close to melee, they will hit Robots hard. They also do mostly Smashing damage, and Robots resist Lethal and Psychic. So they're kind of hard for Robots to fight if they get close. You need to keep them back with knockback powers, Force Bubble if you have it available (probably not). Otherwise a suggestion would be Bodyguard mode with Provoke, and hover above the fight... I think the Coralax may throw coral shards in a cone, and Calystix has Psychic Scream which is also a cone, so pulling the cones to hit a single target at a time would help a lot. This also allows you to use Luck inspirations to affect all incoming attacks, whereas using them on single Robots is not effective.

 

So... use Lucks to increase your personal defense, Hover above the fight, and Provoke all the mobs to focus on you only.

 

Addendum: I soloed him as an AV on a Merc/Traps... he killed me a few times until I figured to pull him to the room of the cavern and use Caltrops to block his summons from coming into melee. Then they were stuck at ranged, I moved the Mercs to the side so the cones wouldn't hit them, and fought him there like that. It worked pretty well, though I had Triage Beacon to help soak up the damage. But he was a true AV, so the EB version may be soloable without a +Regen boost.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Coyote
Mercs/Traps

[Ultimo]

It hasn't been the melee powers.  His pets throw these cones of pebbles, and he throws this blue wave spray thing, all AOE ranged attacks... and the bots are instantly wiped.  I even tried souping up the Assault bot with three large purple inspirations, 2 medium orange and three small damage.... and he was still oneshotted.

 

Doesn't seem to be any way to engage him.  With my PFF, I could go in and take his alpha... but the bots only last about 2 seconds longer.

[Coyote]

But I don't think they have -Def powers (I could be wrong on that, though), and the Bots should be soft-capped on Defense. I don't understand why they're being hit so much.

Do you have both +Defense pet IOs?

Do you have any Defense slotting in your Protector Bots? What is the Defense of Assault Bot once fully shielded and inside your Dispersion Bubble? Protector Bots with a LotG +Recharge and one LotG Defense should be over 12.5% Defense. Two of them on him push it to 25%, the two IOs push it to 35%, and Dispersion Bubble puts him over the softcap. I can see some lucky hits going through, but not a majority of the attacks.

I think that all of those Defense sources cover all attacks, without a Psychic damage hole, so it should matter even if his Psy Scream is not properly categorized as AoE.

[The_Warpact]

Can you post a pic of what your enhancements look like on your primary and secondary?

[Ultimo]

I can try... All SOs now, I focused mainly on defense (Being a FF Mastermind)... I'll see what I can do.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Ultimo

[Coyote]

Oh, ho. And what are your difficulty settings?

 

One problem with Calystix is that his stats are lower as an EB than an AV... but his summons are the same. So THEY will do the same damage even if his damage output is lowered by dropping him to AV. So you may want to drop difficulty from x4 to x1, as I believe that the number that he summons at a time is related to the team size.

 

Also, Bots can soft-cap Defenses... with the Pet Defense IOs. Without them, their defense goes from about 45% to 35%, and they take 3x as much damage. They're not even highly expensive for rare IOs, so given how useful they are for Bots, I would prioritize them over almost any other proc for that character.

[DoctorDitko]

My robotic friend CyberKnight9 says you have starved your bots of resources. He suggests you respec and spend the slots on your bots first (granted, he's biased). He thinks you shouldn't need the fighting pool if your bots are good at their jobs.

Just a suggestion, good luck!

[Carnifax]

Did you take pool powers ahead of your Shields for your pets? That'd explain a bit. Youve gone down the pool power route quite early and quite aggressively slotted them.

 

Normally I wouldn't be slotting pool powers (other than stamina as required) til the 30s. 

 

 

[The_Warpact]

Ok so based on what you have ie powers/slots, I'm going to guess you're around 27.

 

Try this out, use hover/DB for you and use Deflection/Insulation/DB on the Bots, thats the one glaring hole on your build and pay attention to them when def/insulation start flashing buff them again.

You're not protecting them enough DB alone isn't going to do it. Use hover to float above battle to keep bots in DB and you're close enough to provide heals from repair/aid other. You can use PFF as a "oh shizz" power in case things go bad.

 

In the Mastermind section of the forums look up guides on how to do Macros/slash commands/numpad to further refine your technique and help maximize the potential of your pets.

[Max Firepower]

PFF is normally a one slot wonder of overkill, defensively. I would check the MM forums, but take 2 slots off of PFF, Maneuvers, Weave, and Tough (8 slots total) and put those into the Boyz.  /respec is your friend.  You can respec at 26 or 27 and throw 6 slots into that T8 Assault bot.

I thought bots could take some resist or defense slotting for some reason.

[siolfir]

4 hours ago, Max Firepower said:

I thought bots could take some resist or defense slotting for some reason.

Protector Bots can slot defense, that might be what you're thinking of?

Edited February 6, 2021 by siolfir

[Ultimo]

6 hours ago, siolfir said:

Protector Bots can slot defense, that might be what you're thinking of?

Protector Bots can project Force Bubbles, so they can take Defense.

My usual focus is to get my personal defense as good as possible, as soon as possible (not PFF, as that takes me out of the fight).  To that end, my priorities were Dispersion Bubble, Maneuvers, Tough and Weave.

The Protector Bots are the only ones with extra abilities, so they get the extra slots.  The Battle Bots and Assault Bot are really only about damage, so that's all they get.  It's not really necessary to slot them for endurance reduction, unless you plan on recasting them a lot... and I generally don't have to.  Against most things, my build is more than adequate, capable of grinding down armies of foes with little difficulty.  My usual approach is defense first, then damage.  However, I don't usually bother with the single bubbles (Deflection/Insulation), as they don't benefit ME, and my bots are more than capable enough on their own.

 

Until Calystix, that is.  Against him, NO amount of damage slotting would help, and while having more Defense might allow the bots to survive a little longer, it's not going to help much when one hit will wipe them all out.

 

In any case, I'll tinker with the build in Mids' and see what I come up with.

[The_Warpact]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

 However, I don't usually bother with the single bubbles (Deflection/Insulation), as they don't benefit ME, and my bots are more than capable enough on their own.

 

 

You do realize the bots are the reason you lvl right?

Being concerned with saving yourself is ok but ultimately its saving your damage dealers. 

Wait till you get higher and then everything starts killing your bots, good luck.

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

However, I don't usually bother with the single bubbles (Deflection/Insulation), as they don't benefit ME

This seems kinda backwards and antithetical to what a MM is. If that's your concept, then fine (I can't say much as I have a Petless MM myself), but the Robots are both your primary source of damage and defense. They take hits for you, can attack even while you're incapacitated, and in Bodyguard Mode (when applicable) can become much more resilient. Making sure they stay alive as long as possible does, in fact, benefit you.

Edited February 7, 2021 by ForeverLaxx

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Protector Bots can project Force Bubbles, so they can take Defense.

I'm aware. My response was to someone who was saying he thought that the bots took resistance or defense slotting, and I was suggesting that may be what he was thinking of as a bot that took defense slots.

 

3 hours ago, Ultimo said:

It's not really necessary to slot them for endurance reduction, unless you plan on recasting them a lot... and I generally don't have to.

I didn't want to comment on the actual slotting (you play how you play) but slotting endurance reduction in MM pets also reduces the cost for them to use their powers. It's been a while since I ran bots to remember if they're one of the ones that bottoms endurance quickly, but some pets run through endurance and then are stuck using their weak attacks as their end recovers.

 

Without adjusting slotting at all I would try to push mobs into a corner with Force Bolt and Repulsion Field, then juggle using Air Superiority with all bots set to focus on Calystix (I don't think he has any special knockback protection). Since you focused on personal defense, this will get some use of that while also preventing a lot of the attacks through the one non-defense thing that Force Fields offers: knockback. 

 

Also, replace that Tech/Science DO in the Assault Bot - that's not a slotting issue as much as a "wth is that doing there" issue.

[DoctorDitko]

OK, CK9 is being quite insistent:

"SIX SLOT YOUR BOTS!"

I guess that's a strong vote. Also, I know your control of your minions is a force multiplier. Make sure you have the advanced pet controls active, and practice making them all attack one target. It's a simple strategy. but it works surprisingly well. At the very least, make a macro that says "petcomall attack defensive" which lets you nuke a target without letting your bots go berserk.

Good luck, and good hunting!

[Ultimo]

Ok, here's a first pass at a revised build.

I'll explain some of the reasoning.  ALL my characters are based on a concept.  Often (usually), they're meant as homages to existing characters in one way or another (eg. The Canadian Shield=Superman, Watch-Man=Batman, Ultimo=Iron Man (more or less)...).  Lord Dire is based on Doctor Doom.  One of my favourite things is to set the bots on Aggressive, turn on my PFF and then WALK malevolently into the enemy while the bots wipe things out around me.  So, the character is designed with Doctor Doom in mind.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Lord Dire: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Field Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(33)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(9)
Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(37)
Level 4: Fly -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 6: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(34), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 8: Equip Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(13), DefBuff-I(13), Heal-I(17), Dsrnt-I(19), ToHitDeb-I(33)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(15), DefBuff-I(15), DefBuff-I(17)
Level 16: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(43), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 18: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(19), Dmg-I(50)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(23)
Level 22: Boxing -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(23), Dmg-I(50)
Level 24: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(25), ResDam-I(25), ResDam-I(31)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(31)
Level 28: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(29), DefBuff-I(29), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 30: Group Fly -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(40), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(37)
Level 38: Power Blast -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(40)
Level 41: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(46)
Level 47: Explosive Blast -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(50)
Level 49: Force of Nature -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(5), Heal-I(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(3), EndMod-I(3)
Level 1: Battle Drone
Level 12: Protector Bot
Level 26: Assault Bot
------------

 

Ok!  Here's the rationale.

The Battle Drones and Assault Bot only get 4 slotted because 1 accuracy is usually enough, and more than 3 damage will suffer from diminishing returns.  The Protector Bots are the only ones that get 6 slots, because they have all the support abilities.  I've one slotted each one for now, just to illustrate what CAN be slotted.  Usually, I'd slot 1 accuracy, 1 damage, 1 heal and 3 defense.

 

In the past, I've not bothered with the Deflection/Insulation Shields but now I understand casting on one target affects them ALL.  That is actually useful.  More, I dropped almost all the rifle attacks because they're essentially useless, so I had room for the shields.

 

I didn't take Hover, so I put 2 end reduction into Fly in case I need to leave it on.

 

I did slot PFF with 3 defense, because I find if I don't, I get slaughtered a LOT.  I put one more in recharge because I had a slot free, and often find myself waiting around to reapply the PFF.

 

I took Air Superiority, because I do find it very useful.  It almost single handedly won me a PvP match, back in live.  I don't use it much, Dire does not engage in petty fisticuffs.

 

Apart from that, the rest should be fairly self explanatory.  I'll have to wait for the epic pools to get access to the blasts for personal attacks, but such is life.  Early Doom relied more on his gadgets, too.

 

So, let me know what you think, what would you change?  I know, we've drifted away from worrying about Calystix, but that's ok.  He'll keep.

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

So, let me know what you think, what would you change?

 

I would put more slots into the pets, and get the Defense and Resist IOs. Adding +10 Defense and +20 Resist to everything is nice. Even better if you can afford the more expensive MM ATOs with 10% AoE Defense and 10 more Resist. The non-ATO ones are usually obtainable for 2 million or less each, so for 8 million you can get a huge improvement in the character's abilities.

 

Also... I would be slotting IOs at level 27, as they are better than SOs, and it's cheaper to buy them once than to upgrade every few levels.

 

The pet upgrade powers need Endurance Reduction, not Recharge.

I would take out the End Reduction out of the FF ally shields, as they're not too expensive and you're not casting them that often.

I would take out some of the slots from PFF, it has a very high value base, so one Defense IO (or SO) is quite enough. Use those slots to 6-slot the pets so you can put the uniques into them.

Change the Fly slots to Flight Speed. You won't be leaving that on in missions, you'll be using Group Flight. Ironically, it has a lower End cost. But you'll want your Bots off the ground to keep them out of melee.

I don't think I'd slot Boxing up unless I were using IO sets for bonuses. Cross Punch might be worth slotting up, but not Boxing. I'd switch both slots to Air Superiority since it's an actually good power.