Toughest/most survivable

[Xandyr]

@snarky, I know on my Dark/MA tank, I've never died. Even when a Rad armor tank bit the dust. However, that's with the tanker AO, and the defense buff from MA. So I can attest that Dark, at least on a tank and paired with MA, is ungodly.

[Pzn]

21 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

@snarky, I know on my Dark/MA tank, I've never died. Even when a Rad armor tank bit the dust. However, that's with the tanker AO, and the defense buff from MA. So I can attest that Dark, at least on a tank and paired with MA, is ungodly.

Invuln has great synergy with it like dark.  It makes it fairly easy to reach soft cap.

[Hyperstrike]

7 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I understand the mindset that people wanna claim invuln and Stone as the best. They used to be, definitely not anymore. It is, most observably, Rad and Bio. They are the polished results of years of armor building. My Bio/Spines, if needed( it almost never is) can become a mini granite tank with none of the drawbacks minus the damage thing with defensive. And Rad is just flat out better than the res sets in the hands of good IO builders

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're not tough.

I'm simply saying that regenning/healing  damage is NOT "mitigation".

High level Defense and Resist ARE.  And there's enough in a built Invuln that near-base regen is enough to keep your Health bar totally green.  So much that you wonder why you took DP.

"And the polished results of years of armor building"?

Like how to turn an Invuln into a god is some recent anomaly?

Have a chat with Call Me Awesome...

Rad and Bio still need to attack to achieve their survivability numbers.

A built Invuln is nigh-unkillable JUST STANDING THERE WITH IT'S HANDS IN ITS POCKETS.

 

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I’ve teamed with Invuln and watched them fall on my Tank and Brute, while I was not only in the green, i STILL had a nice chunk of absorb left.

AN Invuln.  What was the build?

Build yourself an Invuln/* on my Invuln framework.  Or base it off my "Mo Durable/Dame Durable" builds.

Then just go stand in a crowd of +4 [INSERT HERE].  No attacks JUST STAND THERE.

 

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Seed22 said:

 

I ran one of Hyperstrikes posted SS/Invul Brute builds as my main when I first got back to the game.  Homecoming.  Thank you.  

 

He ain't lying.  I still have the toon, unmodified, ready to pull out of the garage.  It is just smashtastic.  And, like Hyperstrike said, it can just stand there stone cold and ignore 99% of the game.  Huge Psi battlefields like the one iTrial, Battle Maiden's blue patch, and Magisteriums final battle do require you to watch the screen.  

[Infinitum]

If I'm ranking the Brute secondaries, it would be something like this.

 

Stone

Invul

EA

Shield

SR

Dark

Willpower

Elec

Rad

Fire

Regen

 

Bio is somewhere in there - not a fan - not qualified to rank it objectively.

 

Also Situationally - any of #2-5 are so close any of them could inhabit any of those spots based on play style and slotting.

 

6-9 are also close together and really not far from 2-5 but occassional situations make some situations slightly more difficult.

 

10 - Fire is largely dependant on your ability to mitigate by kill speed.

 

11. Regen - can be good but has issues that places it last - fix those issues it could be one of the best also.

 

I have builds for most of these if anyone wanted them.

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

If I'm ranking the Brute secondaries, it would be something like this.

 

Stone

Invul

EA

Shield

SR

Dark

Willpower

Elec

Rad

Fire

Regen

 

Bio is somewhere in there - not a fan - not qualified to rank it objectively.

 

Also Situationally - any of #2-5 are so close any of them could inhabit any of those spots based on play style and slotting.

 

6-9 are also close together and really not far from 2-5 but occassional situations make some situations slightly more difficult.

 

10 - Fire is largely dependant on your ability to mitigate by kill speed.

 

11. Regen - can be good but has issues that places it last - fix those issues it could be one of the best also.

 

I have builds for most of these if anyone wanted them.

Can attest, Infinitum has put together a fine list.

[StriderIV]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

AN Invuln.  What was the build?

Build yourself an Invuln/* on my Invuln framework.  Or base it off my "Mo Durable/Dame Durable" builds.

Then just go stand in a crowd of +4 [INSERT HERE].  No attacks JUST STAND THERE.

 

Hyperstrike always loves being the last one standing 💪🏻

[Hyperstrike]

16 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Hyperstrike always loves being the last one standing 💪🏻

Granted, on a Tank being the last one standing is TECHNICALLY a FAILURE.

But there's a certain wicked joy in watching your enemies beat on you with everything INCLUDING a +5 Kitchen Sink Of SmashySmashy, and seeing the slowly dawning horror as you just smile, and smile  and smile without actually being hurt AT ALL.

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Granted, on a Tank being the last one standing is TECHNICALLY a FAILURE.

But there's a certain wicked joy in watching your enemies beat on you with everything INCLUDING a +5 Kitchen Sink Of SmashySmashy, and seeing the slowly dawning horror as you just smile, and smile  and smile without actually being hurt AT ALL.

Haha very true 😂 on the flip side, sometimes you have a team that just LeRoy Jenkins it and you have to hold down the fort until they all come back 😂

 

My Invuln/EM can just stand there, as you say. My Dark Armor/Staff can as well, I just look like I’m breakdancing the whole time 😉

Edited March 8, 2021 by StriderIV
Spelling

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Haha very true 😂 on the flip side, sometimes you have a team that just LeRoy Jenkins it and you have to hold down the fort until the all come back 😂

 

My Invuln/EM can just stand there, as you say. My Dark Armor/Staff can as well, I just look like I’m breakdancing the whole time 😉

Yeah.  Had a couple missions where the team went "One!  Two!  Three!  BELLYFLOP AT THE AV'S FEET!" and I just sat there, pounding the guy, SSSLLLOOOWWWLLLYYY into hamburger.

And the coolest compliment ever?

"How the <CENSORED!> did you survive THAT?"

[twozerofoxtrot]

8 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

A built Invuln is nigh-unkillable JUST STANDING THERE WITH IT'S HANDS IN ITS POCKETS.

Unless they're standing next to Hamidon.

 

cue Muttley laugh

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by twozerofoxtrot
ps- my fave character is an Invul tank

[StriderIV]

18 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Unless they're standing next to Hamidon.

 

cue Muttley laugh

 

 

Haha true, but that is pretty much true for anything that is non regen or Dark Armor, right? =P

[StriderIV]

55 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Yeah.  Had a couple missions where the team went "One!  Two!  Three!  BELLYFLOP AT THE AV'S FEET!" and I just sat there, pounding the guy, SSSLLLOOOWWWLLLYYY into hamburger.

And the coolest compliment ever?

"How the <CENSORED!> did you survive THAT?"

“Well, I started by auto casting some attack on the AV and than I went to go make a sandwich.” 😂

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Haha true, but that is pretty much true for anything that is non regen or Dark Armor, right? =P

Actually it's true for anything that's Regen too.  Since the goo shuts down Regen.
The normal, acceptable way is to have a team of Defenders/Controllers/etc casting heals on the Hami tank from outside of the AoE distance.

Also, not eligible for the Tanker Tough Test.
But here's a mostly Common IO Inv/SS.  It's got the common "aspirational" uniques in there for +Def/+Res, optimal Health slotting and +End procs.

With a bit of judicious marketing and hoarding of Merit, this baseline build is eminently doable.
And if you get your hands on Enhancement boosters...

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(5)
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7), EndRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(11), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(17), EndRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21), Heal-I(21), Heal-I(23)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25), Range-I(27), Range-I(27)
Level 12: Unyielding -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(29), EndRdx-I(29)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(31)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), EndRdx-I(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), Rct-ResDam%(33), ToHit-I(33)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(34), EndRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 22: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(36), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 24: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), ToHit-I(39), ToHit-I(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(40)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(40), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Hurl -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42), EndRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), EndRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), EndRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

“Well, I started by auto casting some attack on the AV and than I went to go make a sandwich.” 😂

How did I end up in the river in Cimerora?
Well, you put Imperious on auto-follow and...
D'OH!

[twozerofoxtrot]

2 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Actually it's true for anything that's Regen too.  Since the goo shuts down Regen.

One of our tanks for Hami on one of Everlasting's 3 daily raids is a SS/Regen Brute. It has nothing to do with Regen, it has to do with popping that fat self-heal every 10-15 seconds since Hami doesn't floor self-healing, and the extra HP from Dull Pain.

 

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Haha true, but that is pretty much true for anything that is non regen or Dark Armor, right? =P

Not at all. Arguably the most famous tank on Everlasting, @Veracor, is Bio/TW.  Pretty sure there isn't anything he hasn't tanked. Usually tanks Hami at least twice a day. Also, Radiation does a fine job, I'm pretty sure @Keen uses that on his Hami Tanker.

 

 

[Veracor]

Why am I being pinged into the Brute forum?  O.o

 

2 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Haha true, but that is pretty much true for anything that is non regen or Dark Armor, right? =P

Dark Armor is arguably the best powerset for tanking Hamidon due to Dark Regeneration, and the regen-styled powersets are also high up there despite Rebirth Radial currently being bugged on Radiation Armor.  You do need to slot a ton of knockback protection when tanking Hamidon with DA, though.

 

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Actually it's true for anything that's Regen too.  Since the goo shuts down Regen.
The normal, acceptable way is to have a team of Defenders/Controllers/etc casting heals on the Hami tank from outside of the AoE distance.

Not at all.  Hamidon and the green Mitos stack debuff regeneration and healing received.  Regen's Reconstruction has the Unresistable tag, allowing a Brute/Scrapper to heal through it.  Defenders/Controllers/etc casting heals on the Hami tank does nothing.  Regeneration buffs such as Triage Beacon and Wild Growth are what overcome the debuffs unless the Hami tank is being hit by far too many green Mitos (Which only attack closest target so something must've gone wrong in the raid).

[Parabola]

There's something about discussions around what's the tankiest set that always sound a bit 'my daddy is stronger than your daddy' to me!

 

For what it's worth I think much of what is best for most of the game doesn't necessarily hold at the sharp end. I'd much rather have solid res backed by debuff res and heals for the really nasty stuff so my ratings for armour sets are almost the inverse of many peoples. In particular invuln is a set I just don't see being as tough as it's made out to be. Great against s/l but although it's common, s/l isn't generally all that dangerous. Also those weightings for damage type feel heavily skewed by all the s/l done at low levels. In the late game exotic damage seems a lot more prevalent than those numbers make it look.

 

You also have to consider the tools that are available to build with. For example the only source of always on resistance in pool powers is tough. So needing a bit more s/l resistance isn't as much of a handicap than needing more e/n which is harder to find. Similarly there's a decent chunk of psi resist available through impervium armour and the aegis unique but you really do need to be building that on top of something (and have res powers to slot it in). However toxic is very difficult to build for so if you start off with nothing much there that's roughly what you'll end up with too.

 

Radiation is my current choice for toughest set against the broadest range of really irritating enemies (built for resists with debuff protection from focused accuracy, much slow res and ageless radial). I'm playing around with bio more now too. I had previously written it off as interesting but too squishy but I think I've worked out how to build and play it now. It does seem squishy when approached from the 'def and res and stand there and if I have to use a heal I've failed at coh' mindset. If you slot the heals up, build for recharge (alongside def and res of course) and actually use the heals appropriately the set becomes way tougher. Also fun to play imo.

[Grindingsucks]

21 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I understand the mindset that people wanna claim invuln and Stone as the best. They used to be, definitely not anymore. It is, most observably, Rad and Bio. They are the polished results of years of armor building. My Bio/Spines, if needed( it almost never is) can become a mini granite tank with none of the drawbacks minus the damage thing with defensive. And Rad is just flat out better than the res sets in the hands of good IO builders

Well, it may depend on the build (or, more specifically, how good you are at builds), yes.  I have both Radiation and Invulnerability armor tankers.  I enjoy both sets, but find Invulnerability easier to slot for general survivability.  I think, for the casual player, Invulnerability is probably the set that will get you the most survivability with the least amount of fuss, although endurance management can be a pain in the rear.

 

@parabola wrote:

Quote

There's something about discussions around what's the tankiest set that always sound a bit 'my daddy is stronger than your daddy' to me!

Yeah, there's a strong element of dick waving in this game.  Which is a little amusing, since the game is easy enough that often you really don't need a super optimized build, even when running at +4/8.   

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, parabola said:

There's something about discussions around what's the tankiest set that always sound a bit 'my daddy is stronger than your daddy' to me!

Yeah yeah.  But in this case I'm right!

 

...

So NYAH!

[Hyperstrike]

37 minutes ago, Grindingsucks said:

Yeah, there's a strong element of dick waving in this game.  Which is a little amusing, since the game is easy enough that often you really don't need a super optimized build, even when running at +4/8.   

It's not about the size...  It's about how you...okay, it's about the size...

[Keen]

6 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Also, Radiation does a fine job, I'm pretty sure @Keen uses that on his Hami Tanker.

Rad Armor is right there with Bio in the list of top tier sets for Hami tanking. Both have Absorb, unresistable heals, end drain resists on auto powers, and high toxic resists. Rad, Bio, Regen, Dark, and Fire Armor can stand on their own against Hami regardless of the secondary, while other sets like Stone Armor will likely need Dark Melee as a secondary to have a reliable self-heal in Siphon Life.

 

But good Hami tanks don't necessarily make good tanks for other content. Good Hami tanks can be built with little to no resists to anything but toxic, and also have zero defense. Such tanks wouldn't hold up very well against non-Hami things.

[StriderIV]

8 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

One of our tanks for Hami on one of Everlasting's 3 daily raids is a SS/Regen Brute. It has nothing to do with Regen, it has to do with popping that fat self-heal every 10-15 seconds since Hami doesn't floor self-healing, and the extra HP from Dull Pain.

 

Not at all. Arguably the most famous tank on Everlasting, @Veracor, is Bio/TW.  Pretty sure there isn't anything he hasn't tanked. Usually tanks Hami at least twice a day. Also, Radiation does a fine job, I'm pretty sure @Keen uses that on his Hami Tanker.

 

 

That's cool to know man, thanks for the knowledge share!

[Infinitum]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

It's not about the size...  It's about how you...okay, it's about the size...

Are we still talking about Hami here?