Increase the inf cap limit per toon

[Doc_Scorpion]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:08 AM, Andreah said:

I'll give an example. If you want to buy more than, say, 200 superpacks at once, you need more than 2 Billion inf.

While I have no doubt there's at least one person who does absolutely insane stuff like that...  I seriously doubt there's a large enough pool of people doing so to justify monkeying deep in the code.

My guess is that for the vast majority of the playerbase, the cap is more than sufficient.

[arcane]

28 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

While I have no doubt there's at least one person who does absolutely insane stuff like that...  I seriously doubt there's a large enough pool of people doing so to justify monkeying deep in the code.

My guess is that for the vast majority of the playerbase, the cap is more than sufficient.

A couple of emails is not a burden at all relative to the alternative of changing fundamental code, so I’d tweak “vast majority” to “entirety” 😉

[Solvernia]

On 3/28/2021 at 4:17 PM, Greycat said:

Do away with inf all together! Think of the benefits -

 

- Heroes doing hero stuff because they want to, not "for the money."

- Fewer purse snatchings because there's no money to be had from them.

-- This leads to more people being on time to work and greater productivity.

- Fewer bank robberies because there's no money in the bank.

-- Bonus: Less energy consumption since banks can be downsized to just the vault and not really need as much of a lobby and the like. They can consolidate into fewer branches, too!

- No need to worry about minimum wage (or having to work a job you hate!)

- No worries about too MUCH inf either!

- Taxes are much easier. No money, nothing to tax!

- Greater minion / henchperson heath and safety benefits. With no banks to rob, no security will shoot at them. And there's no risk of failure, so there's a smaller chance (chance varying depending on who they work for) of being shot, dropped in lava, mutated, teleported into space without a suit, or being forced to hook back up with their ex - all things that cause stress in a minion's life.

 

Live the inf free life!

 

Inf isn't even money in the first place and exists as an abstract resource, a number indicating your level of influence, information, or infamy. Think of it like a villain beating up a really high-profile hero, gaining infamy from it, and then using/spending that infamy to convince people to give them stuff.

[srmalloy]

15 hours ago, Hardship said:

That is the highest number that can be stored in one register.  2^32 power.  But another register could be added to count influence higher if the need was great enough.

 

You can only count to 5 on one hand (register), but if you add another you can count all the way to 10!

 

 

2,147,483,647 is the biggest value that can be stored as a 32-bit signed integer, but you can double that by making it an unsigned integer (since you're not allowed to have negative inf); this still requires that every field in the server and client code, and the server databases, that manipulate or store inf values be changed. Changing the fields to 64-bit integers still requires the same global change, but puts the maximum value out beyond what is practical to ever acquire.

 

And the people who can't count to at least 30 on one hand don't understand binary, and are stuck scratching tally marks on the wall.

Edited March 30, 2021 by srmalloy

[Herotu]

On 3/28/2021 at 8:39 PM, Apparition said:

The two billion cap is due to a limit with 32-bit integers.  The highest number a 32-bit integer can go is roughly 2.14 billion.  As far as I know, the only way to raise it past that point would be to remove the 32 bit game client.

Could they use those 32 bits to store the number as a float instead? That should free up some space, right?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Herotu

[kelika2]

someone make math

1 alt = 2b

1000 alts = ???

??? accounts = ???

 

And two, I max out an alts enhancements at 300m-500m.  the fuck do you need 2b for?

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Herotu said:

Could they use those 32 bits to store the number as a float instead? That should free up some space, right?

That would still require reworking the game code and database, and would actually increase the problem -- with 32 bits, the bits used to store the exponent take away from the bits used to store the significant digits. A 32-bit signed integer can store up to 2,147,483,647, but a 32-bit float generally only has seven significant digits -- once you get past ten million, you lose the last digit; at a hundred million, the last two; at a billion, the last three, and at ten billion, anything less than a thousand inf won't change the total. If you want to have a completely accurate number, you have to use integers.

[CU_Krow]

On 3/28/2021 at 8:41 PM, Andreah said:

Let me offer a serious alternative.

 

Keep the 2-Billion inf limit on each character. Much as I'd love to change this, it could create wide ranging unforeseen bugs.

 

Instead, add a new piece of special salvage, which is purchased at the merit Kiosk for inf at 1 Billion each, and which can be sold for 1 Billion Inf at the same Kiosk. These would be transferable only to characters on the same account. Or maybe even allow them to be traded/emailed to anyone -- that's how normal Inf works, after all. Each character could keep as many as 9,999 of these at one time. 

 

If this were done, we would no longer need to store inf on pages of special purpose characters, or float it in emails to ourselves, or in clever auction house bids.

 

This is a legit idea & multiple people have "liked" it on the post. You consider posting this as a suggestion thread? It will prob be overlooked in this thread. I would 100% support it.

[Yomo Kimyata]

In Praetoria, you gotta make the information first.  Then when you get the information, you get the power.  Then when you get the power, you get the "Huge" body type.

[Andreah]

11 hours ago, CU_Krow said:

This is a legit idea & multiple people have "liked" it on the post. You consider posting this as a suggestion thread? It will prob be overlooked in this thread. I would 100% support it.

I'll consider doing that when this thread has run its course. 

 

My suggestion would solve most of the inconvenience problem from the inf cap, and not present new risks inherent in changing the size of a variable that ranges widely through the code, client, and databases. Also I think the Homecoming / Score teams have added new kinds of salvage before, so it should not be too terribly unfamiliar or difficult. I can't be sure there of course.

 

For drawbacks, I don't see any really. People who don't want to think about Inf in these quantities won't ever see these unless they decide they want to. None of the UI fields in the client would need to be made wider to accommodate larger numbers, prices of every day things would not change -- this isn't about making people richer, but making it easier to handle the large amounts of inf wealth some people have and many supergroups accumulate.

 

That last point has been missed, so far. There are a number of supergroups that hold events, contests, and such with prizes and giveaways. They manage multiple billions of influence to prepare for and run these, and since it can't readily be kept in one place, it's a significant QoL issue.

 

Finally, I don't want to understate the drag on the system from the extra alts made to store inf, happenstance sitting on names (I have many that do nothing but store inf I could delete tomorrow), taking up database space, and so on. Email is also not a very good solution to storing inf. The email system itself was not designed for long term "kiting" of influence to ourselves. Perhaps even the shear number of steadily increasing emails containing inf with similar titles and addresses is causing issues within that system we don't even see. I know it occasionally fails even now -- periods will go where I cannot claim things from mail and I get error messages from it. 

 

And storing inf on market bids is scary level dangerous. 

 

[CU_Krow]

10 hours ago, Andreah said:

I'll consider doing that when this thread has run its course. 

 

My suggestion would solve most of the inconvenience problem from the inf cap, and not present new risks inherent in changing the size of a variable that ranges widely through the code, client, and databases. Also I think the Homecoming / Score teams have added new kinds of salvage before, so it should not be too terribly unfamiliar or difficult. I can't be sure there of course.

 

For drawbacks, I don't see any really. People who don't want to think about Inf in these quantities won't ever see these unless they decide they want to. None of the UI fields in the client would need to be made wider to accommodate larger numbers, prices of every day things would not change -- this isn't about making people richer, but making it easier to handle the large amounts of inf wealth some people have and many supergroups accumulate.

 

That last point has been missed, so far. There are a number of supergroups that hold events, contests, and such with prizes and giveaways. They manage multiple billions of influence to prepare for and run these, and since it can't readily be kept in one place, it's a significant QoL issue.

 

Finally, I don't want to understate the drag on the system from the extra alts made to store inf, happenstance sitting on names (I have many that do nothing but store inf I could delete tomorrow), taking up database space, and so on. Email is also not a very good solution to storing inf. The email system itself was not designed for long term "kiting" of influence to ourselves. Perhaps even the shear number of steadily increasing emails containing inf with similar titles and addresses is causing issues within that system we don't even see. I know it occasionally fails even now -- periods will go where I cannot claim things from mail and I get error messages from it. 

 

And storing inf on market bids is scary level dangerous. 

 

I 101% agree on every point. I think the others which liked your post saw the benefit of this as well, which is why they liked it without posting.

 

This thread has pretty much run its course, since the 32 bit integer pretty much eliminates the idea I proposed. However, your alternate solution completely bypasses the spaghetti system and is something very doable  by the current team w/ much less effort. Another reason I recommended you making a thread with this idea is cause knowing forum experience, majority of ppl view this thread will only see the OT, skip the remainder of posts, then post their own opinion 😛 I doubt this particular thread will run more than past this wknd.

[GM Impervium]

Closing thread as per OP's request 😃