Activating any power reduces Stealth

[Wavicle]

Using the Stealth power:

 

Activating Combat Jumping OR Super Jump OR Double Jump temporarily lowers my stealth from 55 to 36 for about 15 seconds.

 

Seems like activating just about anything lowers my stealth from 55 to 36, maybe it's only 10 seconds, not sure.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Wavicle

[UberGuy]

This feels busted, and I don't think the patch notes convey this power working this way. But it makes sense that it's doing this based on what's visible in CoD.

 

 

"EndActivate" is what it kind of sounds like - it's an event that happens when a power, any power, ends its activation cycle. (Basically it happens when the power's icon stops "circling" after you click on it.) So, yes, activating anything will suppress the defense.

[Wavicle]

16 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

This feels busted, and I don't think the patch notes convey this power working this way. But it makes sense that it's doing this based on what's visible in CoD.

 

 

"EndActivate" is what it kind of sounds like - it's an event that happens when a power, any power, ends its activation cycle. (Basically it happens when the power's icon stops "circling" after you click on it.) So, yes, activating anything will suppress the defense.

I cannot believe that is WAI.

[UberGuy]

To be clear, I am not claiming it is WAI. I'm just saying its behavior makes sense given how it's set up. So it's not like an engine bug or anything. It's actually set up to work this way. Whether that's what's intended or appropriate or whatnot, I cannot really say.

[Wavicle]

In fact simply BEING in ranged of my League mates Leadership powers is suppressing my Stealth Radius AND my Out of Combat Defense.

[UberGuy]

That is, apparently, actually intended. That's the "Helped" event (which is really "HelpedOther" - a change is in the pipeline for CoD to display it that way). So the power is set up so if you buff anyone, even with an AoE toggle, it will suppress.

 

I'm just the messenger here. I don't know the reasoning.

[Wavicle]

15 minutes ago, UberGuy said:

That is, apparently, actually intended. That's the "Helped" event (which is really "HelpedOther" - a change is in the pipeline for CoD to display it that way). So the power is set up so if you buff anyone, even with an AoE toggle, it will suppress.

 

I'm just the messenger here. I don't know the reasoning.

Oh, I get what you're saying. I'm suppressed NOT because I'm being buffed but because *I* have Maneuvers and am therefore buffing others. I will test when possible by turning off Maneuvers.

[Alo?]

If this is working as the developers intended, it ought to have been spelled out more clearly in the notes.  This version of Stealth does not reliably give the same amount of stealth as Invisibility did.  You can only rely on 36 feet of the 55 it gives to be active without something messing it up and making you visible to critters.  The out-of-combat defense I'm not personally worried about, but this is not as advertised in the patch notes:

"Invisibility and Stealth have been merged together, the best parts of both powers are now available with just Stealth"

 

Invisibility didn't break just from having an AoE buff on and someone walked up to you or because you have a personal buff on auto-cast and it's time for it's reapplication.  This a baffling execution of the idea of making the power the best parts of both previous powers.

[UberGuy]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Oh, I get what you're saying. I'm suppressed NOT because I'm being buffed but because *I* have Maneuvers and am therefore buffing others. I will test when possible by turning off Maneuvers.

 

If I'm right, you shouldn't even have to turn it off. Just be off a team with no pets it can buff.

[Wavicle]

When solo it does not suppress unless I activate powers or inspirations. So yeah.

imo BOTH the EndActivate and HelpedOther and for all I know something else as well should not suppress any part of this power.

[dtj714]

In the patch notes thread it’s been indicated that activating the power itself suppresses the extra stealth, and Faultline acknowledged this is not WAI. So clearly there have been some errors in implementation. I asked there that the changes be reverted until they fully figure out what is and isn’t WAI. 

[Wavicle]

It isn’t necessary to revert any changes. Just patch the issues.

[UberGuy]

Yeah, reverting the changes would mean turning EvMa back into Afterburner, which would mean reworking the entire Flight pool to near its original state. That's an unreasonable amount of change when the events that trigger suppression can be modified.

[Kartanian]

Additional context: (Sorry for the copy and paste formatting meh from Discord)

 

Problem: Player notices that the stealth provided by the revised Stealth power is inconsistent, and there is no longer a consistent T3 option in the Concealment pool to replace/continue it

 

In play: Inspirations suppress full 55 ft. Stealth down to 36 ft PvE Stealth radius. So does Sprint, Reveal, Hasten, Hover, Fly, Build Up, any armor toggle, and anything else that affects Self or Other as target. Note: I would have expected the suppression from powers that affect Other-Than-Self targets, but not from powers that only affect Self.

 

All of these things suppress the 55 ft PvE stealth to 36 ft for a minimum of 10 seconds.

 

If they had made it so that we still had a consistent 55 ft PvE stealth (Invisibility) in the pool, I would not mind; this is a very big benefit for a T1 power. But, Invisibility was removed so there is no consistently-on 55 ft stealth option now. To get the same effect, I now need to 2-slot Infiltration with a +Stealth IO. This is frustrating (95% of my characters are stealthers) and it does not seem to be working as intended.

 

EDIT: And from the discussion above, my "not working as intended" seems to be accurate. It looks like the programming behind it has been looked at, as well.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Kartanian

[UberGuy]

It's not a programming thing. It's just how the power's settings were chosen, which is "just" a data thing. No one will have to make code changes to update this, nor is the code doing anything out of place.

 

The settings for the power are, however, being questioned and, it seems, updated in the next patch.

Edited April 21, 2021 by UberGuy
Punctuation

[dtj714]

8 hours ago, UberGuy said:

Yeah, reverting the changes would mean turning EvMa back into Afterburner, which would mean reworking the entire Flight pool to near its original state. That's an unreasonable amount of change when the events that trigger suppression can be modified.

I didn’t mean the entire patch, or even all the “travel” changes, just Concealment. But if it’s as simple as changing some of the settings, then I expect it should be fixed in short order.  In fact, I’m kinda surprised that it hasn’t been already, which makes me wonder if there is some internal debate about what it’s really supposed to do, given the apparent disparity between what was “intended” and what was implemented.

 

Edit: It hasn’t even been added to the”known issues” list yet. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by dtj714

[UberGuy]

Just based on the testing cycles we say for beta, it seems likely each patch is given a few days to be implemented / reviewed / tested before it goes to any of the test servers. Also, given that none of the bugs so far are causing "all hands on deck" issues like crashes or character corruption, waiting a few days to see what other issues players can find, so they can also be rolled into a patch would make sense, rather than pumping out a rapid sequence of small patches.

[Glacier Peak]

48 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

I didn’t mean the entire patch, or even all the “travel” changes, just Concealment. But if it’s as simple as changing some of the settings, then I expect it should be fixed in short order.  In fact, I’m kinda surprised that it hasn’t been already, which makes me wonder if there is some internal debate about what it’s really supposed to do, given the apparent disparity between what was “intended” and what was implemented.

 

Edit: It hasn’t even been added to the”known issues” list yet. 

It's clearly been recognized by multiple devs (many directly responding to you in other threads) that it isn't WAI and will be patched accordingly. 

[Olly]

Has this been resolved? I just ran Manti and even with Invisibility, adds that didnt used to see me now see me. Not sure if this is WAI or not.

[Wavicle]

34 minutes ago, Olly said:

Has this been resolved? I just ran Manti and even with Invisibility, adds that didnt used to see me now see me. Not sure if this is WAI or not.

I think it has been fixed. If you are running Leadership toggles or other team buffs (and are in range of teammates) it will give you Stealth and not Invisibility, that could be what you’re seeing.

[Coyotedancer]

If you're running any toggles like Rise to the Challenge, that'll alert the goons, too. NuStealth doesn't shift those toggles to Only Affecting Self the way Invis used to do back-in-the-day. You have to turn those off (or use the new OAS power from P2W-) if you want to sneak around with those kind of aura powers now.

[Olly]

I was running around with Invisibility with my fire blaster healing aura. This kind of sucks -- it's not really explicit in the patch notes that you now have to turn every power off; and that your teammate's group powers can lower your stealth radius. (see: random teammate stealthing the same path as you with leadership toggles on). Anyways.. moving on with a workaround but I'd rather this behaviour is reverted.

 

 

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Olly said:

I was running around with Invisibility with my fire blaster healing aura. This kind of sucks -- it's not really explicit in the patch notes that you now have to turn every power off; and that your teammate's group powers can lower your stealth radius. (see: random teammate stealthing the same path as you with leadership toggles on). Anyways.. moving on with a workaround but I'd rather this behaviour is reverted.

 

 

Other people buffing you shouldn’t be lowering your stealth, only you buffing them.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Stealth does not suppress at all from buffs as of last patch, the high defense does suppress if you buff or heal other players or pets, though.

 

Only way for your stealth to go away is if you attack, are hit by a foe, or click on a mission objective (glowies, doors, etc.)

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Stealth does not suppress at all from buffs as of last patch, the high defense does suppress if you buff or heal other players or pets, though.

 

Only way for your stealth to go away is if you attack, are hit by a foe, or click on a mission objective (glowies, doors, etc.)

Doors? What kind of doors? I haven’t been seeing this happen.