Buff blasters.

[Ston]

More specifically, give some love to all blast sets that aren't fire or ice. IMO, there is an issue with the distribution of ST DPA among blast sets and it all stems from three powers: blaze (170 dpa or 132.6 dpa before DoT), bitter ice blast (133 dpa), and telekinetic blast (122 dpa). I wouldn't put TK Blast up there with blaze or BIB though as it will often be heavily resisted.

 

The top ST DPA attacks for every other blast set are below 90. I think this warrants a leveling of the playing field and here are my suggestions to accomplish that:

• Give drastic damage buffs to mitigation powers. (The clobber treatment, perhaps?) This can be taken straight from Sentinels who, IMO, do it right. Here a few examples:
  • Sonic Blast > Screech does a whopping 5.21 DPA on blasters. This is 80.31 on Sentinels. 
  • Assault Rifle > Beanbag. 13.9 DPA on blasters, 68.09 on Sentinels.
  • Electric Blast > Tesla Cage. 4.32 DPA on blasters, 55.51 on Sentinels. 
  • Energy Blast > Power Push. 15.24 DPA on blasters, 78.76 on Sentinels.
  • Psionic Blast > Scramble Thoughts. 5.21 DPA on blaster, 62.69 on Sentinels.
• Radiation Blast > Cosmic Burst currently does 64.07 DPA.. this is barely over a third of blaze... Make it competitive by adjusting damage or animation time. 
• Dark Blast > Abyssal Gaze currently does 53.05 DPA. I think this should get a slight buff to at least match the Sentinel's 67.1 DPA.
• ** I think Beam Rifle and Water Blast are fine since they have extra mechanics that give more utility than other sets.

 

I think it's pretty clear that blasters are the best AT for meta endgame content.. but most of this is due to just how good fire and ice are. I would love to see more competition from the other blast sets. Here is a note from an Issue 13 patch regarding War Mace that made me think there was justification for this post:

 

"An ongoing project over the last several issues has been bringing War Mace up to performance par with other powersets. The last set of changes got us close, but still not to where we want to be. Here are the new changes: Clobber: Reduced Recharge Time to 16 seconds and altered damage scale and endurance costs to match using the standard formula. This now means it is a pretty hard hitting attack, with a damage scale of 2.29 and a base endurance cost of 15.18. Since this is now classified as a Damage power rather than a control power, the base duration of the Stun effect was reduced from scale 10 to scale 5"

[arcane]

I don’t think the DPA of one attack merits buffs. Balance is far more nuanced than that. Obviously more buffs to still-underperforming sets like Assault Rifle or Sonic Blast are welcome, but that’s about it. If you actually play other blasters instead of just reading data and fighting pylons, you’ll know that most of the sets in question - Rad, Water, Dark, Psy, Beam, etc. - are in great shape.

 

Blasters in general are easily one of the top AT’s across the board. Even my AR/Dev outperforms more meta combinations from other AT’s. They simply need zero help at best (nerfs at worst) outside of the rare dud attack.

Edited May 19, 2021 by arcane

[Rathulfr]

I support the spirit of this suggestion, if not all of the specific details.  This is a back-handed "nerf Fire" post, by suggesting we buff everything else, which is a good approach.  However, it misses an important subtlety that explains why the other blaster attacks outside of Fire do less damage: secondary effects (knockback, slow, stun, hold, etc.).  Fire doesn't have any, while the attacks in the other powersets do.  They are there to add dimensions besides "MOAR DAMNAGE!"

 

That's not to say that secondary effects are sufficient to make up the difference in damage over Fire: I think that's a matter of personal preference.  So I'd like to see some of the points made by the OP get addressed, and if that results in higher DPA numbers, great!  So I guess count this as a conditional +1 from me (for whatever that's worth, if anything at all).

 

(edit) Personally, I don't play Fire Blasters all that often, because I find them boring.  I guess I got burnt out on playing fire-based casters in other RPGs*.  One of the reasons I love CoH is that gave me the ability to play other kinds of casters that don't suck.  In most other RPGs, fire casters are usually OP and/or dull, while those that aren't fire usually feel anemic.  But that's not completely the case in CoH: yes, Fire is OP in CoH (just like elsewhere), but the alternatives are also more viable in CoH than elsewhere.  Yes, they do less pure damage, but they're also interesting and effective enough in other ways to make up for that.

 

(*: Insert "I cast Fireball" meme here.)

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Rathulfr

[arcane]

20 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I support the spirit of this suggestion, if not all of the specific details.  This is a back-handed "nerf Fire" post, by suggesting we buff everything else, which is a good approach.  However, it misses an important subtlety that explains why the other blaster attacks outside of Fire do less damage: secondary effects (knockback, slow, stun, hold, etc.).  Fire doesn't have any, while the attacks in the other powersets do.  They are there to add dimensions besides "MOAR DAMNAGE!"

 

That's not to say that secondary effects are sufficient to make up the difference in damage over Fire: I think that's a matter of personal preference.  So I'd like to see some of the points made by the OP get addressed, and if that results in higher DPA numbers, great!  So I guess count this as a conditional +1 from me (for whatever that's worth, if anything at all).

 

(edit) Personally, I don't play Fire Blasters all that often, because I find them boring.  I guess I got burnt out on playing fire-based casters in other RPGs*.  One of the reasons I love CoH is that gave me the ability to play other kinds of casters that don't suck.  In most other RPGs, fire casters are usually OP and/or dull, while those that aren't fire usually feel anemic.  But that's not completely the case in CoH: yes, Fire is OP in CoH (just like elsewhere), but the alternatives are also more viable in CoH than elsewhere.  Yes, they do less pure damage, but they're also interesting and effective enough in other ways to make up for that.

 

(*: Insert "I cast Fireball" meme here.)

 

Fire being extra OP is not a logical reason to buff everything else. It’s a logical reason to nerf Fire. That being said, since people like Fire, better to leave the issue alone than to highlight an issue that logically calls for a nerf. Blasters are OP in general right now and further buffs should be completely off the table beyond the bigtime duds. Ignite, Shout, etc.

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Blasters are OP in general right now and further buffs should be completely off the table beyond the bigtime duds. Ignite, Shout, etc.

 

Fair point.  There are plenty of other ATs and power sets that need attention before Blasters, IMO.  I was merely offering a tepid +1 to the OP, indicating that I wouldn't mind if Blaster attacks were more normalized.  That said, I also think there are higher priorities than that.

 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Fire being extra OP is not a logical reason to buff everything else. It’s a logical reason to nerf Fire. That being said, since people like Fire, better to leave the issue alone than to highlight an issue that logically calls for a nerf. Blasters are OP in general right now and further buffs should be completely off the table beyond the bigtime duds. Ignite, Shout, etc.

 

Fire should not be nerfed, it is not in the same league as TW was compared to it's peers where it outperformed in EVERY metric. Fire is "conditionally" OP I'd say where if outside sources are able to accommodate for it's holes then of course it gets crazy, but until you do that it does follow the appropriate risk/reward design, at least IMO / IME.

 

That is not to say other blast sets do not need buffs, as oh boi....

 

Side note: the point above about Fire also relates to Blasters in general, which are not the only ATs with these blast powers.

[arcane]

Yeah, Blasters and Tankers are the two AT’s right now where I feel I could pretty much make any possibly powerset combination play like easymode.

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Yeah, Blasters and Tankers are the two AT’s right now where I feel I could pretty much make any possibly powerset combination play like easymode.

 

In general, or "when I slap on the standard suite of IO's / etc"?

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

Fire should not be nerfed, it is not in the same league as TW was compared to it's peers where it outperformed in EVERY metric. Fire is "conditionally" OP I'd say where if outside sources are able to accommodate for it's holes then of course it gets crazy, but until you do that it does follow the appropriate risk/reward design, at least IMO / IME.

 

That is not to say other blast sets do not need buffs, as oh boi....

 

Side note: the point above about Fire also relates to Blasters in general, which are not the only ATs with these blast powers.

I don’t actually want Fire Blast nerfed. I’m just saying that IF you were to try to bring equity to DPA, it would be less bad  to nerf Fire than to make every other set monstrously OP too. Since I’d prefer not to nerfherd, my logical preference would be to leave the status quo and focus on actual underperformers.

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

In general, or "when I slap on the standard suite of IO's / etc"?

Of course I only play with IO’s, but I don’t buy the implication that blasters are underperforming in non-IO land. If I haven’t finished my IO’s on any given character, I just compensate with more inspirations. It’s never as if IO’s make an AT go from worst to best; they only amplify what’s already there.

[SwitchFade]

Uh, so....

 

I once blastied with a Blasty McBlastface.

 

He was not fire. He was better. Fire is meh.

 

I learnt me then, blasties is fine.

 

Then, I discovered Blappies.

 

It was then I knew jebus.

[Apparition]

Radiation Blast, Sonic Attack, and Assault Rifle need help.  Maybe Electrical Blast (never played it, so I really can't say one way or another).  The rest of the ranged damage sets are fine, IMO.  Some are better than others, but that's the way it always is.

[arcane]

Disagree on Radiation Blast needing help at all. Fantastic set. Agree on Assault Rifle and Sonic Blast.

[Galaxy Brain]

Elec Blast needs help to "do it's job", as its one of the only sets in the game that sort of *needs* synergy with another complimentary set to perform it's gimmick. By itself it actually has a hell of a time leveraging it's sapping mechanics which is definitely it's thing compared to most other elec sets given it has Short Circuit, and Thunderous Blast tho it's cycle time leaves it kind of meh as a consistent drain tool. 

 

It also doesn't help that it has rather poo "real" ST damage despite what it may look like on paper.

 

 

2 hours ago, arcane said:

I don’t actually want Fire Blast nerfed. I’m just saying that IF you were to try to bring equity to DPA, it would be less bad  to nerf Fire than to make every other set monstrously OP too. Since I’d prefer not to nerfherd, my logical preference would be to leave the status quo and focus on actual underperformers.

 

It would be more economic sure, but the core issue is more that blast sets IMO are not as cohesively designed as melee sets, which leads them to suffer a lot when they have performance dips. In that regard it is much better to buff the not-good ones.

 

 

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Of course I only play with IO’s, but I don’t buy the implication that blasters are underperforming in non-IO land. If I haven’t finished my IO’s on any given character, I just compensate with more inspirations. It’s never as if IO’s make an AT go from worst to best; they only amplify what’s already there.

 

Well yes and no due to slotting options / comparative strength that certain IO's give to one character over an other. I'd say the "boost what's there" is much more true for Tankers over Blasters where IO's moreso patch holes that were designed to be holes for a reason.

 

[arcane]

26 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Well yes and no due to slotting options / comparative strength that certain IO's give to one character over an other. I'd say the "boost what's there" is much more true for Tankers over Blasters where IO's moreso patch holes that were designed to be holes for a reason.

 

Depends how you use them but sure. I’d argue that the difference between IO potency between AT’s is negligible compared to the difference between an IO’d build vs. non-IO’d build for any given AT though.

 

Also I would clarify that only 10-20% of my blasters are IO’d according to the soft cap meta. Because it’s not necessary. I’d rather load up on more damage and procs than sacrifice all my bonuses for something inspirations can handle fine. So, not sure I’m meeting this concept of patching holes with my IO’s.

[Galaxy Brain]

shooting for soft cap specifically isn't necessary, its more that starting from basically "0" mitigation to gaining it from IO's is a comparatively big leap compared to a Tanker which currently has decent damage that gets enhanced by procs, and amazing mitigation which is not really enhanced too much by bonuses.

[arcane]

I dunno. You could think of it the other way: resistance and defense gets exponentially better per 1% as you get more - when you look at it from the angle of how the enemy’s damage/accuracy adjusts with each 1%. And tankers often can use IO’s to cap quantities they never could before. Like non-S/L resistance on most resistance sets. Semantics, perhaps. Point is I’m not convinced Blasters need any help at all 😉 

[Bill Z Bubba]

12 minutes ago, arcane said:

Point is I’m not convinced Blasters need any help at all 😉 

 

Agreed. The AT on the whole has been buffed to OP land, just like tanks, even without considering what can be done at 50 with fully IOed/Incarnated builds.

 

But even with that mindset in place, I do see certain powersets within the archetype need some help to get them on par with their compadres.

[golstat2003]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Agreed. The AT on the whole has been buffed to OP land, just like tanks, even without considering what can be done at 50 with fully IOed/Incarnated builds.

 

But even with that mindset in place, I do see certain powersets within the archetype need some help to get them on par with their compadres.

 

Bill you're more polite than me lol.

 

Fire should just be left as is. It's fire, that's all it does. See the above posted meme about just casting fireball.

 

Agreed that SOME sets need help. nothing major.

 

EPICALLY disagree (only time I'd actually use /jranger nowadays) that blasters as an AT as a whole need help. LOL, no.

 

They are probably one of the dead last (other than tankers) ATs that I would say need any assistance whatsoever. (even if just a few sets need SOME help, but nothing major).

[Galaxy Brain]

40 minutes ago, arcane said:

Point is I’m not convinced Blasters need any help at all 😉 

 Gonna mirror Bill in that, well yeah "Blasters" don't need help, the "Blast Sets" do

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

Bill you're more polite than me lol.

 

Only cuz the mods are watching me.

[Ston]

I think I made a mistake by titling this post 'Buff blasters' ... Probably should've been 'Buff some blast sets'. But if sonic, assault rifle, electric, radiation, and energy get improved, then it would be an overall buff for blasters anyway since there would be more diversity to 'viable' builds. So I'll stand by my OP lol. 

 

@arcane and @Rathulfr made good points about secondary effects. However I still think the the weaker blast sets would be much, much more enjoyable if they had that one extra hard hitting power to add to their ST chain. I'm not talking blaze damage, either. I'm talking sentinel damage, which should be saying something. Maybe it's just me but I've never relied on a ST stun when playing a ranged damage character.. I'd much rather the stun be reduced and the damage boosted. The only one I see often in builds is suppressive fire.. and that's because it could be turned into a proc bomb, and who knows how much longer that will be viable anyway. 

 

I also forgot to add freeze ray to my OP. It's actually the 3rd highest ST DPA, not TK Blast. I'd argue that Ice Blast also has one of the best secondary effects for any damage set in the game since it can cripple mobs with slows and easily hold bosses. Albeit it has no snipe... but I still think it shows some imbalance of blast sets. 

[Mezmera]

Since we're in a generous mood I'd also like to ask for a buff to Darkseid, Thanos, and Superman as well please.

[macskull]

Honestly I think Fire Blast needs buffs. Maybe some secondary effects and the ability to slot some damage procs would be nice.

 

(Also, giving the Clobber treatment to mez powers on non-Sentinel sets, since they actually did that one right for Sentinels. It's mostly just the sets which give up a T3 blast or snipe in exchange for a crappy mez that are seen as weaker.)

[siolfir]

52 minutes ago, Cirque said:

I think I made a mistake by titling this post 'Buff blasters' ... Probably should've been 'Buff some blast sets'.

Eh, I thought it was a deliberate attempt at a clickbait title. It's certainly more likely to get a response than "Sonic Blast needs help" because that merely prompts a "well, duh" response while saying that Blasters need a buff prompts people to go "what the heck is this fool talking about?"