Sniper Beta Patch Notes, June 1st 2019

[AngriestGhost]

You're really trying hard to make +10% ToHit (if you have perma-dom) some kind of gamebreaking feature outside of snipes when in all actuality it would have close to zero impact on anything else.

 

It's literally a bigger difference to hit than going from fighting +3s to +4s (a to hit difference of 9%).  It's nearly giving doms free-Tactics for 45% of the time before considering any kind of recharge bonuses.  Will it break the game? No.  Is it necessary? No.

 

Can you provide any justification for a global buff when the devs could simply lower the instant snipe threshold on Dom snipes?  Let's hear some reasons why this is a superior solution to others that won't impact other powers or powersets.

[Kelaris]

I tested the changes on the beta server for a couple hours. Level 50 dark/dark Dominator with good IOs. Only used alpha and interface slot incarnate stuff. Did a handful of +3/x8 missions solo.

 

Overall I like the idea behind the changes. It's much more intuitive for less experienced/less informed players. It was previously also a bit of a nuisance to lose fast snipe when I got hit by a to-hit debuff.

 

I was initially a little concerned by the Dominator snipe damage reduction. However, in practice the fast snipe is monstrously strong at 139.97 DPA, if the activation time is 1.33s (1.452s Arcanatime) and my napkin math is correct anyhow. The next best attack in the set is 80.6 DPA. With the reduced recharge on snipe, it formed the cornerstone of a fairly strong attack chain.

 

Nitpick: I would prefer if the fast snipe retained the long range of the slow snipe. It's convenient for finishing runners on live, but otherwise has minimal impact on group PvE combat.

 

It's exciting to see stuff being worked on and tinkered with. Thank you to everyone who is involved in development for the game/server.

[Auroxis]

 

Can you provide any justification for a global buff when the devs could simply lower the instant snipe threshold on Dom snipes?  Let's hear some reasons why this is a superior solution to others that won't impact other powers or powersets.

 

1. It's changing one power as opposed to all of the different snipes.

2. It's more consistent, no need to add more "if" scenarios to this. 22% ToHit.

 

Please stop nitpicking about some change i suggested and carry on, let the CM's/Devs sort through this thread without endless bickering in their way.

[Super Homer]

Letting the devs sort out the feedback sounds like a good policy. Arguing back and forth to attack OR defend proposals may be counter productive as it means they got a lot more to go through.

[Almafeta]

I have two concerns about the IO set.

 

1.  The name is generic.  'Sniper Blast'?  Why not something like "Chimera's Edict" or "Nemesis's Longsight?"

 

2.  The set benefits seem to be a 'best of all worlds' set.  Range, health, damage, endurance, defense, and an ANIMATION-time reduction global; and on TOP of that:  regeneration, accuracy, recovery, and recharge in PVP.  It'll be nearly mandatory for anyone, PvP or non.

[Phoenix']

So here's my proposal:

• Every blaster primary attack has a small chance (5 or 10%, whatever is balanced) of putting a "fast snipe" mode on the character that lights up the fast snipe indicator for a few seconds and gives you a short window of availability for it.
   
  
• The more global +ToHit buff you have, the greater this percentage becomes, scaling all the way up to 100% chance at 22% to-hit.
  

This has the advantage of not being such a huge buff at the base levels, while still allowing people who don't build for perma-snipe to have more frequent access to it. It gives to team buffs, taking powers like Tactics, and +ToHit IOs even if you're not near the magic number. It doesn't invalidate the perma-snipe builds that people have been making over the last month. And it doesn't make it seem like /Devices is getting the short end of the stick.

 

An alternative I'd suggest: A flat damage boost for snipes that scales on +ToHit. That allows sets which currently benefit from frequent or permanent fast-snipe (Looking at you, Devices) to keep their edge without needing to introduce RNG.

 

An alternative I'd suggest: Make Instant Snipe being activated by pressing the ability twice and Slow Snipe by pressing it once and been away from combat for 3 secs

[slappy101]

It looks like there's plenty of complaints about the snipe changes here already so I'm going to add another one. I understand the issue with instant snipes being a binary switch, but I believe this change removes a core build target for ranged ATs. It doesn't say anywhere in the book that you HAVE to have permanent instant snipes, nor does it say anywhere that you have to have things like perma-haste or perma soft capped defenses. Those are all things that you have to tailor your build towards based on your priorities for your character. It's what makes every character in CoX unique. However, the latter of those build targets are sliding scales rather than binary options. I would rather see snipes take a similar approach where 0% bonus to-hit and 22% bonus to-hit work just as they do now, but any value in between reduces the activation time of the snipe linearly. This would give people the opportunity to build to-hit without feeling like once they start they have to reach 22% to get their money's worth. I also think that this change would make sense with keeping the range the same for both in combat and out of combat snipes since there would still be a snipe mechanic while in combat if you don't have enough to-hit.

[Banana Man]

I have some opinions on this, both from a PvE and PvP perspective.

 

PvP first.

 

I think people have some misconceptions on the relevance or implications this IO set and mechanic have on PvP.

I can already hear PVP players reaching for their keyboards to furiously tell me how this change is <bleep!> since combat in PVP is a lot faster and this stops them from using Fast Snipe as an opener.

 

2. New mechanic for super snipe, which no one will ever use outside of PvP.

 

No one in their right mind will be slotting anything in this set other than the proc, here’s why.

 

1. The set has no interrupt reduction. While the damage modifier increase shouldn’t matter in PvP because of the PvP damage formula, slow sniping in PvP is/was a thing, and requires the slotting of interrupt so players can

  a. Not get interrupted while sniping, so they don’t completely give up pressure and eat a bunch of free damage while dealing no damage themselves

  b. Jump the snipe after the shortened interrupt time to pass the line of sight check on targets that are moving, which is every target that isn’t trying to eat your snipe for free.

 

2. The set bonuses are pretty bad. The range bonus is smaller than other PvP IO range bonuses for the same number of slots, the accuracy bonus is smaller than the one from Adjusted Targeting, the HP bonus is negligible, and perhaps most importantly, the recharge bonus is not achievable without slotting the entire set, and slotting the whole set would be a terrible build choice.

 

Slotting the whole set is a bad build choice because of the reason I mentioned earlier (interrupt), but most importantly, because you’d be losing out on the whole point of instant sniping in PvP - which is NOT leading with the snipe for a bunch of damage (because that’s not how it works).

 

The only real benefit to instant snipes in PvP is that they can accept more procs than most normal ranged attacks, and also have a longer cooldown (and thus a higher proc rate). Instant snipe is most beneficial to sets like fire blast, or psi blast (sets that you can’t slot many procs in) and basically just get used as a better version of their low tier abilities like flares or psi dart.

 

The only thing this change really does is for PvP is reduce the range of instant snipes, while being a slight buff to sets like fire blast or psi blast. As for doms, I’m not really sure if it’s a buff or a nerf yet. On the one hand, they can snipe more regularly - on the other hand, their snipes will now proc much worse because of the recharge decrease.

 

PvE implications:

 

Really doesn’t do much, seems like we’re messing with some values unnecessarily. I get the idea. People are already building for instant snipe anyway, so you might as well just make it a more streamlined thing. Slow sniping in PvE definitely needs some love, too, because it’s not currently a worthy investment of time for the amount of damage it does (in the majority of situations, especially at max level). I agree with that stuff.

 

I don’t feel like you need to mess with this many values (that aren’t broken in the first place) to work toward fixing that. Here’s the beef I have with this change in PvE.

 

  1. The out of combat duration is too long to be useful.

 

  2. The range decrease really doesn’t seem needed.

 

  3. It nerfs blaster single target damage, because while the 15 second cooldown will make the snipe proc better, with the exception of the rad snipe (and the achilles heel proc), it’s not intuitive to slot for procs on blaster t3 and snipe attacks, and is better to just slot for recharge to maximize the number of times you use those attacks (and slotting for recharge hurts proc rate). Blaster single target damage is already a joke in the world of scrappers, and I’m not just talking about the outlying sets like TW. I don’t feel like the recharge change or a nerf to blaster damage is something needed.

 

  4. There’s no reason at all to slot the proc in PvE. If base range for instant snipe is 80, I can just open with something other than the snipe that also has an 80 foot range (blaze, tk blast) and then instant snipe anyway. The only thing slotting the proc does is make it so I can never slow snipe, it’s not a benefit of any kind.

 

  5. I don’t feel the animation change to Psi Blast is warranted. TK blast already does less damage than other similar powers. Will Dom tickles. The set has certified 'hot dog water tier' AoE damage. The damage type is super hit or miss. The only thing psi blast had going for it from a high end PvE perspective was that it was the top set for single target damage (TK blast + Psi Lance is better DPS than Blaze + Blazing Bolt). Increasing the cast time just feels like another really random, unnecessary change to values. If tweaking values is the priority, why nerf a set that isn’t even an outlier in the grand scheme of things instead of say… Making AR or Elec better? Or Tanker/Brute Energy Melee?

 

Thanks for the work you guys are doing, and for the chance to give out feedback.

 

[hp]

The graphic for the snipe set is butt.

 

Modify: If y'all need an artist for that I know a great illustrator.

[Leandro]

I think people have some misconceptions on the relevance or implications this IO set and mechanic have on PvP.

 

[...]

 

No one in their right mind will be slotting anything in this set other than the proc, here’s why.

 

1. The set has no interrupt reduction. While the damage modifier increase shouldn’t matter in PvP because of the PvP damage formula, slow sniping in PvP is/was a thing, and requires the slotting of interrupt

 

[...]

 

2. The set bonuses are pretty bad. The range bonus is smaller than other PvP IO range bonuses for the same number of slots, the accuracy bonus is smaller than the one from Adjusted Targeting, the HP bonus is negligible, and perhaps most importantly, the recharge bonus is not achievable without slotting the entire set, and slotting the whole set would be a terrible build choice.

 

I cannot comment on the Snipe changes because they're not my thing, but I did make the IO set, so that one's on me. An interesting point is that during the closed beta, PVPers were all about the fast snipe, but in the open beta here, PVPers are all about the slow snipe. Either different meta or different tastes, interesting either way.

 

The set started explicitly just for the "Fast Snipe" IO, with the other pieces having no interrupt reduction because they would be completely wasted if you slotted the Fast Snipe enhancement. This was actually the exact same complaint I got for Sudden Acceleration, where most of the enhancements add +Knockback just for the KB2KD to take it all away. Slotting it and not the proc will leave you with the power's default interrupt time, which is indeed terrible. But adding interrupt time would take enhancement values out of other aspects, which leaves to the problem that Sudden Acceleration has, where only the KB2KD proc is slotted because the other pieces are in direct conflict with it.

 

The range bonus is 5% specifically because it was requested to be anything other than 7.5% because "that's so easy to get already" . The rest of the PVP bonuses were honestly picked to fit the "pair" with the PVE one, health/regen, damage/accuracy, endurance/recovery with the last one going for Recharge as that's where most of the other PVP sets put it. They are not set in stone; this is a beta.

 

The accuracy bonus is 7% in every other PVP IO set, which were taken as a template. However since this particular set is getting a lower range tier, giving it a higher accuracy tier would be a fine tradeoff.

 

The health bonus is in line with Gladiator's Strike at 3 slots, but now I see Gladiator's Javelin has 1.88% also in the third slot, so that's an easy tweak.

 

The recharge bonus is on the sixth slot in nearly all of the PVP sets, the exceptions being Gladiator's Net and Panacea which aren't damage sets. But swapping it to the fifth slot would not be a big deal. Gladiator's Net also has 3% Recovery as a sixth slot bonus so that seems in-line.

 

[csr]

SNIPER BETA?

This patch contains a revamp for the Snipe powers, in Ranged, Assault and Epic versions. The main feature is that Snipe powers will now always be slow if you're out-of-combat (defined by not having attacked or been attacked in the last 15 seconds), and they will always be fast when in combat (defined as having attacked or having been attacked in the last 15 seconds). You no longer need to build up ToHit in order to benefit from Fast Snipe, it's just how the power operates now.

 

It seems as if every set with a Sniper attack just got DP's Executioner's Shot with a special start-of-combat use (but higher END cost and longer Recharge... and faster casts).  Non-Epic Snipes (except perhaps Dom snipes) become such a good power choice that you'd be a fool to pass them up.  It makes me worry about "power creep".

[Primantis]

Id say sitting at the base values Defense gives you and face tanking mobs versus the soft-cap is a pretty noticeable divergent, yes.

 

 

If you roll a corrupter, the way in which your primary snipe ability functions at a base level will be fundamentally changed by whether the support set you pick gives you +tohit or not. This isn't balanced because the devs simply never balanced the sets for it. That a /traps corrupter needs to pay a steep power/IO tax to reach the same damage levels as a /time corrupter because of this detail feels like nothing other than the unintended side effect of a change that the original devs only had half-finished before the game was shut down.

 

Much like how a Fire/Kin Corruptor has to pay more to soft-cap defense than a Fire/Time or Fire/Traps Corruptor? Or perhaps how a Willpower Tank has an easier time patching up Psi defenses than an Invuln Tank. Sets have drawbacks and advantages, that's what makes them interesting. If we try to minimize this and water everything down we might as well just go the WoW route and give everyone everything and call it day.

 

And the difference between 20-25% Defense and Soft Cap is way more profound than what Insta-Snipe offers. Even if the power itself changes much more drastically than pretty much any "min-maxed" power in the game, save for maybe Perma Dom.

 

 

Another proposal would be to give everyone the current planned fast snipe (80 range, 15 second recharge), and if they hit the 22% to-hit treshold, switch that to the i24 fast snipe.

 

So like this (Blaster/Cor/Def values)

To-Hit < 22%:  Snipe = 80~100 Yard range, 15 second recharge (instant firing)

To-Hit >= 22%: Snipe = 150~ Yard range, 12 second recharge (also instant firing)

 

That way everyone gets their fast snipe and people/sets who achieved 22% to-hit aren't slapped with a nerf.

[Sidney]

So even if my Tanker is keeping all the mobs off me, my sniper will have its range nerfed because I shot something w/in the last 15 seconds?  My recharge is gaining a 3 second nerf?  "Sorry guys I can't get that runner cause my bullets are tired."

 

I've never had an issue using my sniper in combat because I'd use teleport, SS, Energy Blast's KB, or simply have good teammates that keep stuff off me so I can shoot.  Reducing the interrupt time by 1s isn't useful, but the nerfs that came with it suck.

 

This is a bad change.  I'm not saying no change is needed, but this isn't it.

 

Why not simply have the casting time scale with ToHit?  +22% still being needed to get your instasnipe, but lesser amounts being helpful.  So a +11% would cut your casting time in half (2.442s cast with 1.5s interrupt) as 11% is halfway to the 22% for insta.  +5.5% would shave a quarter of the time off.  Make it a dynamic sliding scale.  This way any amount of ToHit is still beneficial, but anyone going all in can still get their insta-snipe.

 

Quick edit: The damage scale increase is pretty cool (not enough for the range and recharge nerf, but cool).  Why not make it so that the higher scale is used when shooting something that isn't aggroed against anything?

[Novacat]

"100 yard range". I WISH...

same complaint I got for Sudden Acceleration, where most of the enhancements add +Knockback just for the KB2KD to take it all away

Seems to me a straightforward solution would be "knockback to knockup".

[Dan Petro]

I think people have some misconceptions on the relevance or implications this IO set and mechanic have on PvP.

 

[...]

 

No one in their right mind will be slotting anything in this set other than the proc, here’s why.

 

1. The set has no interrupt reduction. While the damage modifier increase shouldn’t matter in PvP because of the PvP damage formula, slow sniping in PvP is/was a thing, and requires the slotting of interrupt

 

[...]

 

2. The set bonuses are pretty bad. The range bonus is smaller than other PvP IO range bonuses for the same number of slots, the accuracy bonus is smaller than the one from Adjusted Targeting, the HP bonus is negligible, and perhaps most importantly, the recharge bonus is not achievable without slotting the entire set, and slotting the whole set would be a terrible build choice.

 

I cannot comment on the Snipe changes because they're not my thing, but I did make the IO set, so that one's on me. An interesting point is that during the closed beta, PVPers were all about the fast snipe, but in the open beta here, PVPers are all about the slow snipe. Either different meta or different tastes, interesting either way.

 

The set started explicitly just for the "Fast Snipe" IO, with the other pieces having no interrupt reduction because they would be completely wasted if you slotted the Fast Snipe enhancement. This was actually the exact same complaint I got for Sudden Acceleration, where most of the enhancements add +Knockback just for the KB2KD to take it all away. Slotting it and not the proc will leave you with the power's default interrupt time, which is indeed terrible. But adding interrupt time would take enhancement values out of other aspects, which leaves to the problem that Sudden Acceleration has, where only the KB2KD proc is slotted because the other pieces are in direct conflict with it.

 

The range bonus is 5% specifically because it was requested to be anything other than 7.5% because "that's so easy to get already" . The rest of the PVP bonuses were honestly picked to fit the "pair" with the PVE one, health/regen, damage/accuracy, endurance/recovery with the last one going for Recharge as that's where most of the other PVP sets put it. They are not set in stone; this is a beta.

 

The accuracy bonus is 7% in every other PVP IO set, which were taken as a template. However since this particular set is getting a lower range tier, giving it a higher accuracy tier would be a fine tradeoff.

 

The health bonus is in line with Gladiator's Strike at 3 slots, but now I see Gladiator's Javelin has 1.88% also in the third slot, so that's an easy tweak.

 

The recharge bonus is on the sixth slot in nearly all of the PVP sets, the exceptions being Gladiator's Net and Panacea which aren't damage sets. But swapping it to the fifth slot would not be a big deal. Gladiator's Net also has 3% Recovery as a sixth slot bonus so that seems in-line.

 

Hey Leo, hopefully I can provide some perspective here.

 

8 or 9 times out of 10 in PvP you are going to want to be able to just use your snipe as a fast snipe attack to supplement your attack chain and the changes suggested allow for that pretty easy as you just use it as your second attack rather than your first.  Making snipes work closer to AS I feel like actually works better for PvP than the to hit buff ones because it allows you the opportunity to use both on demand if you can get in and out of combat.  (I'd really suggest lower the timer to 8 seconds or whatever stalker hide is.  8 Seconds as well I think?)

 

With the set bonuses, I think the only big thing (the values are honestly fine as they mirror other PvP sets as you said) but add some interrupt values on some of the IO's as that is what you are really going to want.  The 6 piece bonus is useless in the current meta of PvP (where damage procs are kings) but that isn't an issue with the set at all.

 

That all being said, I do appreciate whoever did the changes did have PvP in the back of their mind at some point when making them. I know there aren't a lot of us (PvP'ers) but always happy to it given consideration with these kind of changes.  :) 

 

Short version is : The Proc probably isn't going to be all that useful as there will be greater strength in the chance for a choice of slow snipe vs. fast snipe.  These changes are better for snipes as before, solo you could only hit it inside either aim or BU windows (or when you had veng or outside buffs or personal buffs in some cases like nature) with the way to hit dr's in PvP. 

[MechaMarshmallow]

Much like how a Fire/Kin Corruptor has to pay more to soft-cap defense than a Fire/Time or Fire/Traps Corruptor? Or perhaps how a Willpower Tank has an easier time patching up Psi defenses than an Invuln Tank. Sets have drawbacks and advantages, that's what makes them interesting. If we try to minimize this and water everything down we might as well just go the WoW route and give everyone everything and call it day.

 

My issue isn't with differences existing, it's with the differences not feeling meaningful to the gameplay experience. Some sets have a more difficult time getting to +22% tohit than others, and that is variance within sets, yes. However, as many people have stated, getting +22% tohit is as simple as slotting kismet and tactics. Getting permanent fast snipe is of far greater benefit than pretty much anything else you can do with 1 power pick and a few enhancement slots, so the variance between sets is simply that either you have a built-in way to attain permanent fast snipes, or you pay the power tax and get permanent fast snipes. It's a far lower barrier to entry than softcapping defense.

 

I'm all for avoiding the homogenisation of powersets with interesting differences between them, but quick snipes are already homogenised - everyone either has them, or jumps through a hoop to get them. I just think that the hoop should either be removed, or replaced with something that actually adds diversity to how different powersets interact with snipes. Right now, it just offers the illusion of variance and a low bar for inexperienced players to trip over.

[Nixeras]

So why are snipes being changed when they're actually perfectly fine the way they are? I personally really dislike the idea of making it so snipes are fast. That goes against the very core of a snipe ability.

 

Secondly why buff something that's strong in this situation but "fix" and therefor debuff something like Superstrength's rage defense debuff? At this point with a change like this I'd say Rage shouldn't even have a defense debuff during the crash anymore. It feels like some of these "balance" changes are slightly less balanced than others.

[syntaxerror37]

I haven't played a snipe capable character yet since joining the server, so I can't comment on the i24 implantation.  Overall, I think this system has some promise but definitely needs some tweaks.  the quick snipe range should probably be 90' and the out of combat timer is a bit on the long side for my tastes, and I am a patient player.

 

As a content creator I've come to understand sometimes you have to get something wrong in order to get it right in the end.  Let's remember this is a beta not a pre-release preview.  The numbers aren't set in stone.

[Pzn]

I think people have some misconceptions on the relevance or implications this IO set and mechanic have on PvP.

 

[...]

 

No one in their right mind will be slotting anything in this set other than the proc, here’s why.

 

1. The set has no interrupt reduction. While the damage modifier increase shouldn’t matter in PvP because of the PvP damage formula, slow sniping in PvP is/was a thing, and requires the slotting of interrupt

 

[...]

 

2. The set bonuses are pretty bad. The range bonus is smaller than other PvP IO range bonuses for the same number of slots, the accuracy bonus is smaller than the one from Adjusted Targeting, the HP bonus is negligible, and perhaps most importantly, the recharge bonus is not achievable without slotting the entire set, and slotting the whole set would be a terrible build choice.

 

I cannot comment on the Snipe changes because they're not my thing, but I did make the IO set, so that one's on me. An interesting point is that during the closed beta, PVPers were all about the fast snipe, but in the open beta here, PVPers are all about the slow snipe. Either different meta or different tastes, interesting either way.

 

The set started explicitly just for the "Fast Snipe" IO, with the other pieces having no interrupt reduction because they would be completely wasted if you slotted the Fast Snipe enhancement. This was actually the exact same complaint I got for Sudden Acceleration, where most of the enhancements add +Knockback just for the KB2KD to take it all away. Slotting it and not the proc will leave you with the power's default interrupt time, which is indeed terrible. But adding interrupt time would take enhancement values out of other aspects, which leaves to the problem that Sudden Acceleration has, where only the KB2KD proc is slotted because the other pieces are in direct conflict with it.

 

The range bonus is 5% specifically because it was requested to be anything other than 7.5% because "that's so easy to get already" . The rest of the PVP bonuses were honestly picked to fit the "pair" with the PVE one, health/regen, damage/accuracy, endurance/recovery with the last one going for Recharge as that's where most of the other PVP sets put it. They are not set in stone; this is a beta.

 

The accuracy bonus is 7% in every other PVP IO set, which were taken as a template. However since this particular set is getting a lower range tier, giving it a higher accuracy tier would be a fine tradeoff.

 

The health bonus is in line with Gladiator's Strike at 3 slots, but now I see Gladiator's Javelin has 1.88% also in the third slot, so that's an easy tweak.

 

The recharge bonus is on the sixth slot in nearly all of the PVP sets, the exceptions being Gladiator's Net and Panacea which aren't damage sets. But swapping it to the fifth slot would not be a big deal. Gladiator's Net also has 3% Recovery as a sixth slot bonus so that seems in-line.

 

Any particular reason why dominator snipes are being nerfed so severely?  Why not leave their damage alone?

[@T3h Ish]

I certainly prefer the snipes as they currently exist, but as a compromise.

 

I'd like Targeting Drone to auto-give you the fast snipe, as it has no Build Up, it does a flat damage increase to snipes somewhat as it is as I remember, but nothing really enough to be happy about.

 

Devices is already sort of in a rough spot / under-tuned and that was it's gimmick with the Insta-Snipe rework when the blaster changes came about since it was so easy to acquire it.

[Ukase]

I'm excited to test this out and to see how it plays.

 

That said, as one who has logged literally thousands of hours playing an ice/ice/ice blaster - aside from the UGT trial, I've never seen a need for snipe, but I sure wish it was an option for ice, or fire for that matter. Trade-offs, I guess.

[Leandro]

Locking this thread because there's a new patch out and feedback should take into account those changes.

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3590.0.html