SwitchFade Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Vooded said: Unclear what you are facepalming. Pro or against anything in particular? Where to begin... Generally, I don't disparage new threads rehashing old material, should said old thread not reveal itself with one simple search, or scrolling through subsections for under 2 minutes. In cases where finding relevant discussion that is rich and recent, the decision to broach the topic yet again, with identical statements is... A bit groan inducing. Particularly because reading any of the other threads will not only showcase this exact same statement, but numerous responses that are exceedingly well articulated. So, with a hint of nausea... 1. Seeds is absurdly overturned, it will see a reduction 2. All balance decisions should be pinned to SO only builds 2. Nukes being changed has little comparative value to AoE holds 3. All controller/dominator AoE holds were set to 240 due to the fact that they were an instant "I win" button, effectively neutering everything with 1 button, and it was possible to make them perma. Was 240 too high? Perhaps, but anything under 180 would be too much 4. Mind control has 2 AoE "immob" and one of them can do things that no other can. Reducing one of the two would necessitate a nerf to the other. 5. The statement that the utility of mind control isn't great is misguided, as I and @Mezmera have lamented numerous times. Like storm, mind is unique, and once understood is incredibly powerful Edited July 11, 2021 by SwitchFade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Vanden said: Yeah, developed characters that need well-made builds, not just a single power slotted for recharge and duration. in no particular order - bonfire - earthquake - phantom army - ice slick - various AOE stuns - and of course, seeds all of these single powers, just among explicit control powers are dramatically more relevant and useful than Mass Confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 25 minutes ago, Kaballah said: - bonfire - earthquake - phantom army - ice slick - various AOE stuns None of those are perma with just slotting. The stuns, in particular, have less than half the duration of Mass Confusion, yet take 50% longer to recharge than your suggestion would have it. A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrauleinMental Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 7/10/2021 at 2:45 PM, Mezmera said: I'm open to tweaks to Mind control for the rest of you that clamor for it. But if you'd like to come play with my dom and see how good she is then want to have it buffed into a living god, well... okay, you mortals bow before the almighty Mezmera! There's a big difference between Dominators and Controllers using the Mind Control set. A lot of it has to do with how Mind powers interact with the Controller Inherent--too many of them don't. Dominators' Inherent makes them way better at control than Controllers, especially if you build for perma-dom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 minute ago, SwitchFade said: True that. Additionally, MC... Draws no aggro Causes friendly fire Makes enemies group up closer Does DPS as they attack each other A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Game Master GM Impervium Posted July 11, 2021 Lead Game Master Share Posted July 11, 2021 Just hid a bunch of posts. Everyone try making your points without insulting one another, engaging in passive aggression or pedantry, please. Thank you! 1 1 GM ImperviumHomecoming FAQ; Need a hand? File a Support Ticket! Want to lend a hand? Apply to be a GM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 hours ago, FrauleinMental said: There's a big difference between Dominators and Controllers using the Mind Control set. A lot of it has to do with how Mind powers interact with the Controller Inherent--too many of them don't. Dominators' Inherent makes them way better at control than Controllers, especially if you build for perma-dom. True, being in domination really helps make Mind Control shine. All of the control in Mind is so fluid and being instantaneous is fabulous on doms. That's why you see Mind being so popular on doms as opposed to controllers. But on a controller you could take Mass Confusion and slot the Contagious Confusion proc so the confuse becomes instant and on Total Domination you can slot the +2 mag hold proc for instant holding, the recharge on these powers makes it so these procs will fire on just about everything, so there is ways to have the control in Mind on a controller that a dom can get. One of my suggestions to help out controllers a bit is to allow the aoe hold on controllers to proc a +2 mag hold as its base. Not just on Mind but all controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 I don't agree that Mind Control is popular on either dominators or controllers, I see it used very rarely at all. I make pickup teams literally all day long and I practically never run into anyone (besides me) playing the Mind Control set. This is totally subjective of course but some basic data mining by the admins could show this very easily one way or the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kaballah said: I don't agree that Mind Control is popular on either dominators or controllers, I see it used very rarely at all. I make pickup teams literally all day long and I practically never run into anyone (besides me) playing the Mind Control set. This is totally subjective of course but some basic data mining by the admins could show this very easily one way or the other. You can see that on dom's Mind is the 2nd most popular pick right after the uber Plant control. On Controllers it is bottom. This is a tad old data but the trend seems about right. Just because a bunch of rookies don't understand the secret sauce in Mind dom's, doesn't make them weak. If you'd like to see how a Mind character plays in the hands of someone that has been playing Mind doms since day 1 of villains being live I can give you the grand tour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 "rookies" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Just now, Kaballah said: "rookies" Well calling Mind dom's underpowered is a rookie statement. Controller's sure they could use a buff but is that really solely Mass Confusion's fault? Or some not thinking outside of the box? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) It has the same problems on both doms and controllers, you just don't notice as much because you have domination and assault sets to distract from some glaring issues. Arguing personal ability to get through content or "whos playin" charts from 2020 doesn't change the stats on the abilities. Mind Control could use some adjusting. Just because a power set or an entire AT could use one thing or another to improve general performance does not mean your choice in picking said power or AT was a bad one and nobody is trying to personally call you out, just as a general PSA about balance discussions. Edited July 12, 2021 by Super Atom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Mezmera said: Well calling Mind dom's underpowered is a rookie statement. Controller's sure they could use a buff but is that really solely Mass Confusion's fault? Or some not thinking outside of the box? Framing your disagreement with a suggestion as "rookies don't understand" is really unhelpful and unwelcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Vanden said: Makes enemies group up closer Confuse doesn't do this. It's a great status effect but this is not a selling point for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameboy1234 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 On 7/10/2021 at 7:09 AM, KelvinKole said: I kind of hate seeds of confusion and don’t think that should be the standard for anything. I’m sure it’s fun for the people using it, but having every group in a mission not even fight back is little too….belittling. Like why am I here. I really hate to dis anyone's favorite set or some other bad-wrong fun, but yeah I kinda agree. SOC is way overpowered for its tier and considering the rest of the set. It should have a maximum number of targets about 1/4 of what it does now, assuming the rest of the power stays the same. I sincerely don't like a big nerf like this, but it's been pretty obviously overpowered since the set launched. Just something that needs to be done. Not that Mind Control doesn't need a buff, but if everything is brought up to SOC the game is gonna be a cake walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Mezmera said: That's why you see Mind being so popular on doms as opposed to controllers. A big part of why Mind is popular on Dominators and not Controllers is the lack of a pet. Dominators don't need pets to do damage for them, so what is seen as a negative for Controllers (lack of a pet) is a strength for Doms (a second big AoE control). Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwitchFade Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kaballah said: Framing your disagreement with a suggestion as "rookies don't understand" is really unhelpful and unwelcome. As is your insistence on attacking anyone who has a different viewpoint than yours. Edited July 12, 2021 by SwitchFade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwitchFade Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Kaballah said: Confuse doesn't do this. It's a great status effect but this is not a selling point for it. Incorrect, sorry. @Vandens point is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaballah Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 It causes critters to attack each other and sometimes they run away from each other, or shoot ranged attacks, or knock each other around. Sometimes it causes them to cluster up but sometimes it causes them to scatter or KB other unengaged groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 It 100% does not reliably cause enemies to group up, If anything it can cause scatter. It COULD group things together but to say it as a feature of confuse would be misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wavicle said: A big part of why Mind is popular on Dominators and not Controllers is the lack of a pet. Dominators don't need pets to do damage for them, so what is seen as a negative for Controllers (lack of a pet) is a strength for Doms (a second big AoE control). And yes that's fine, controllers have a whole support set they can concentrate on leveraging their team or debuffs against the targets with and what have you. You can do very well to boost your abilities with things like fulcrum shift and all the other great things in support sets. Yes control has very little offensive punch in their primary powersets to throw out there but if that's all you want to focus on then why not hop onto a blaster or defender? Don't the epic pools get you some nice toys? Again though, instant mass confusion (with the contagious confusion proc) will seriously up the damage being done to the enemy. Confuse powers up your damage on a much better scale than most pets you could have playing alongside you. Instant Mass Confusion with the proc or not is a strength for either AT, you can look at it however you want but I'll take confuse powers over a semi useful pet any day on any AT. They really should tone down Seeds of Confusion so people get the idea of just how good confuse powers can be. It's not like Plant doesn't have many other things in its kit that everyone seems to want. You can not reduce the recharge on Mass Confusion. It'd be like making nukes into what they are today. If you want to add like say a self buff that adds dmg/tohitt per enemy hit that stacks onto you kind of like Soul Drain or something else that'll identify Mass Confusion as a true t9 power and a power you should be taking I'm fine with adding something on that wouldn't make it any more OP than it is now. Edited July 12, 2021 by Mezmera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kaballah said: Framing your disagreement with a suggestion as "rookies don't understand" is really unhelpful and unwelcome. I did give my counterargument to the data you were inferring was true from your perspective of play to an actual set of data provided by the very Homecoming statistics. I'm sorry if showing actual facts and relating my experience to these linked facts wasn't good enough for you. In summary yes "rookies" would throw their hands up and say Mind control is trash when from my perspective it is anything but. I have plenty of experience on a Mind character to give my opinion thanks. Edited July 12, 2021 by Mezmera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I'd prefer buffs to bring other sets up to the level of Plant or Illusion, not nerfs. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Atom Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just gonna kill the 2020 player data argument before it's used again. Most chosen Defender, Empathy. Player choices =/= What's strong and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezmera Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Super Atom said: Just gonna kill the 2020 player data argument before it's used again. Most chosen Defender, Empathy. Player choices =/= What's strong and what isn't. That's support set specific. People from MMO's gravitate to thinking in a box and choose empathy. Not HC's fault they do so. Its a list to show a trend and Fire blast is highly chosen across all sets for a reason. It's safe to assume some support sets get chosen based on what their reputation should be and the personality of the person picking it. If we're talking damage and strength of a character to excel on their own merit people tend to go for the more efficient power choices. So yes Empathy is highly picked for nostalgia, Fire is highly picked because it's the best. I'd reckon such the divergence in selection of Mind control between Doms and Controllers that there may be some efficiency evaluation going on. Edited July 12, 2021 by Mezmera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now