Endgame Team Buff Slotting

[Yomo Kimyata]

I mostly solo.  I usually optimize my alt for solo play, which by level 50 means I try (and generally succeed) in soft- or hard- capping various attributes.

 

I assume some/many/all of you do the same.

 

When I team on high end content (any TF that goes to 50, incarnates, hami, MSR, etc.) there are generally all kinds of buffs.  I’m going to pick defense .  So my character that normally has 45% or so has 60% or higher.  Often way higher.  Cool.

 

Two questions:

 

1.  Is there any reason I shouldn’t have a team build on an endgame character that “team caps” its build at say 30% defense and relies on the gamble that 7-47 league mates will be directly or indirectly be providing the defense I want for the content.  
 

2.  If I’m running a buffer in endgame (specifically defense oriented but the premise works for other buffs), why slot for a 30% buff when 5% will take most of my teammates over the limit?  Then slot for damage or recharge or control or whatever.

 

Just thinking aloud.  It’s not a new issue.  It seems there’s a way to repurpose powers and slots more efficiently.

[iBot]

As with almost everything else in this game it is a matter of what you want to accomplish.  Having a solo build and a team build is a great way to get the most out of a character.  My first thought is are the team mates pick ups or players you know?  I wouldn't rely on pick ups to buff your character but I'm certain the majority would appreciate you buffing theirs.  If it is players you know and can coordinate with them then the sky is the limit.  You can customize your build to help them fill in holes in theirs or vice versa.  Even just having ageless running when everyone else is end starved is huge where as solo you may want barrier instead.

 

Anecdotal reference:

My SG mates like to run themed ITFs every other Monday.  Sometimes the entire team is buffed up incarnates that blow through level 54s as if they were tissue.  Other times the team is a mix of unfinished min level toons and a few high powered builds.  On most of the sub-optimal groups we try to have a few that can buff and ideally someone for +res and someone for +def.  Or even someone that has a -tohit.  The 2 res/def alone turn the unfinished toons into powerhouses.  Throw in a bunch of leadership pool powers and we scream through +5s (for those under 50), rack up massive amounts of XP, and don't die.  Case in point, I had a level 39 that ended 1 run at 45 and was 50 by the end of the second using the XP boost 100%.

[oedipus_tex]

This is definitely an "it depends" situation.

 

If you really do end up on a very well outfitted team, most of your assumptions hold true. This mainly will apply to the two Task Forces that require an Alpha slot, Apex and Tin Mage. It'sa very safe assumption most people in there is on a very strong build.

 

It's much more of a gamble on the ITF, which a lot of people bring mid level characters to to level up.  

 

If the TF happens to be Lady Gray, it's likely to be so easy that what nobody brings even matters. Same is true of Market Crash other than the last boss. For these TFs nukers carry the day just to make them speedier.

 

For level 50 tips missions, like I've been hosting occasionally, its a mix that can tip rapidly between a very well outfitted team and a team in need of a lot of extra support depending who is cycling in or out of the team at the moment, and the difficulty of the tips mission.

[Doomguide2005]

     It's one of the reasons many of my Defenders and Controllers aren't really all that focused on building for defense but focus on recharge.  Most of the time between team buffs and inspires they're pretty well covered especially when they really need it.

[Greycat]

I don't tend to hard or soft cap anything. At least not intentionally. And as far as builds... on quite a few support folks, I'll have two builds, depending on the powerset - team and solo - and slot and make other choices accordingly. If I'm doing that, I'll push the buff side (assuming it's a buffer) fairly far, so...

 

In general I'd kind of agree with the whole "it depends." Personally, I don't assume anything about what people have - I've seen some fairly oddball things, after all.

 

As far as the second question - or what I'm getting out of it - well, anything over that 45% I see more as a +level or debuff resisting cushion for them. I've never had anyone complain about having yet more defense, and with the buffs typically being AOE, it's not generally going to cost *you* more END, so... *shrug* 

[Ukase]

15 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Two questions:

 

1.  Is there any reason I shouldn’t have a team build on an endgame character that “team caps” its build at say 30% defense and relies on the gamble that 7-47 league mates will be directly or indirectly be providing the defense I want for the content.  
 

2.  If I’m running a buffer in endgame (specifically defense oriented but the premise works for other buffs), why slot for a 30% buff when 5% will take most of my teammates over the limit?  Then slot for damage or recharge or control or whatever.

1. The only two negatives to this are your character will now be housing two builds worth of IOs. Switching builds can certainly be useful, but here's a recent experience of mine. 
I noticed that for a recent lower level tf, my rad/stone tank only had 1 attack, probably due to my making a second build specifically for tanking hamidon and just leaving that build as the active build. It had been some time since I've attended a hami raid, and I saw my macro for SB1, and had no idea what it was for, until I right clicked to edit to see what it was going to do. "Select build 1", which I knew was my initial build I'd used to level up. So, I switched the builds, was pleased to see two more attacks, but...because people will misbehave, and the devs have to account for bad opportunism, my ATT, Mission TP, Team TP...all were now recharging, even though they hadn't been used. (the other powers recharged fairly quickly) 

So, that's one negative (aside from having to source two builds, but I know that's not a problem for you. 

The other negative is if you have a habit of deleting characters. It's super easy to forget a character has two builds. You might respec the IOs out of one build, but will you remember the second one? I've made this mistake before. 

2. Depends on who you run with. If you run with players you know to be competent, aim for recharge. In my group, most of the time I don't buff at all. I might give a heal or two, but I seldom need to do so. Occasionally, more of the casual players will show up and I'll have to buff. But, doesn't seem to matter with them. They're going to die because they just have no idea what they're doing, at least, that's the way it seems to me from my side of the keyboard. So, yeah, aim for recharge. 

[nihilii]

The marginal increase in performance through optimizations making certain assumptions with team buffs may not outweigh the rare catastrophic failures when said team buffs fail to materialize - whether because the team composition is light on it, because some players go AFK, aren't on the ball, because the team splits...

It's a bit of a Catch 22 thing: if you're with a competent, disciplined bunch, you're going to steamroll content with no difference whether you eke out 5% more here and there in your own build. If the team is more chaotic, then you want to be self-sustainable.

Edited July 14, 2021 by nihilii

[ZemX]

13 hours ago, Greycat said:

As far as the second question - or what I'm getting out of it - well, anything over that 45% I see more as a +level or debuff resisting cushion for them. I've never had anyone complain about having yet more defense, and with the buffs typically being AOE, it's not generally going to cost *you* more END, so... *shrug* 

 

This.  In three words, "Cascading Defense Failure".

 

That extra defense cushion is nice for anybody that isn't packing serious Defense Debuff Resistance.  And not a lot of people have access to decent DDR.  Even some hybrid defense armor sets don't.  Being over the soft-cap a decent amount is the difference between surviving a mob of angry sword-wielding Cimerorans... and re-enacting Julius Caesar.

[Uun]

I have a Cold/Beam defender. The shields are slotted to provide about 25% +def to everything but psi and toxic. I've had league-mates on a MoDD run thank me for the buff. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Uun