To Poison Ray or not? That is the question.

[KaizenSoze]

My eternal Bane tinkering has resumed. I have two competing builds designed.

 

The main difference is that one takes Poisonous Ray, the other does not.

 

Not taking PR frees up a lot of slots for beefing up durability and allows space for TT:Assault.

 

Poisonous Ray has the potential to do a lot of damage when used with Venom Grenade's -40 toxic resists.

If a target has VG and Surveillance on it, PR can do 472 points of damage with recharge of 5 seconds. That's including cast time.

Build Up+VG+Surveillance = 614 damage. You might be able to get two off during the build up duration.

 

Here are the def/resists comparisons. Left is with PR, right without.

PR with a purple Apoc set gives you 5% psi def.

Without PR I added more LoTG pieces which adds 7.5 s/l resists. Also, adds a bit more overall defense.

 

Thoughts?

Spoiler

 

Poisonous Ray build:

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Wasteland Shadow Mixed: Level 50 Magic Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(7)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(11)
Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(15), Krm-ResKB(15)
Level 4: Wolf Spider Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 8: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def(25)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(31)
Level 14: Pulverize -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(33)
Level 16: Poisonous Ray -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(34), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Apc-Acc/Rchg(34), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(50)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), Rgn-Dmg(36), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 20: Shatter -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dam%(40)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Surveillance -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Arm-Acc/Rchg(45), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 35: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-Psi/Status(46), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(46), Ags-ResDam(46), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def(48)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 49: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning | Hidden
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(19), PrfShf-End%(21)
Level 8: Double Jump
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Radial Paragon
------------
------------

 

 

 

Non Poisonous Ray build

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Wasteland Shadow Mixed: Level 50 Magic Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(7)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(11)
Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(15), Krm-ResKB(15)
Level 4: Wolf Spider Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 8: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(33)
Level 14: Pulverize -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(34)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), Rgn-Dmg(36), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 20: Shatter -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dam%(39)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Surveillance -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(42)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(45), Arm-Dam%(45)
Level 35: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-Psi/Status(45), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(46), Ags-ResDam(46), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 47: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning | Hidden
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(19), PrfShf-End%(21)
Level 16: Double Jump
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Radial Paragon
------------
------------

 

 

 

[JJDrakken]

P.R. is pure Toxic Dmg. 99% mobs out there are weak, 0 resistance, or slight resistance to Toxic. It literally is one the least resisted dmg types in the game for players and mobs.  Why would you want to give that up and it gives you a nice range attack.

[Bopper]

36 minutes ago, JJDrakken said:

P.R. is pure Toxic Dmg. 99% mobs out there are weak, 0 resistance, or slight resistance to Toxic. It literally is one the least resisted dmg types in the game for players and mobs.  Why would you want to give that up and it gives you a nice range attack.

Actually the exact opposite is true. Toxic damage is the most resisted damage type in the game and is the only damage type no enemy is weak to (i.e. none have negative resistance to toxic).

 

 

[tidge]

20 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Actually the exact opposite is true. Toxic damage is the most resisted damage type in the game and is the only damage type no enemy is weak to (i.e. none have negative resistance to toxic).

 

Thanks for the repost, it's been my experience that pure toxic damage is not quick way of defeating enemies.

[JJDrakken]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Actually the exact opposite is true. Toxic damage is the most resisted damage type in the game and is the only damage type no enemy is weak to (i.e. none have negative resistance to toxic).

 

 

 

Well that's new to me. Back in day, I recall it being opposite. Minus Arachnos who all have toxic resist or also anything robotic. I see, he used Council as his test board, thus all various Robots will have higher Resist to Toxic.  That should be tested more on stuff that has no bots in it.

Edited July 15, 2021 by JJDrakken

[GM Kaiju]

I love Banes but am pretty ambivalent on Poisonous Ray. It does good damage... eventually. The DoT is the main downside as it seems to mostly get negated by subsequent attacks and teammates. It’s nice for runners and for AVs/monsters/etc. but meh for everything else IMO.

[nihilii]

PR has always been a wash in DPS for me, but having a ranged attack always comes with premium value.

 

In the end, if you can't fit TT:A with PR, go without PR, for sure.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, JJDrakken said:

 

Well that's new to me. Back in day, I recall it being opposite. Minus Arachnos who all have toxic resist or also anything robotic. I see, he used Council as his test board, thus all various Robots will have higher Resist to Toxic.  That should be tested more on stuff that has no bots in it.

I used more than council in that! This needs updating, but it pulled resists from all factions that had data available at the time and averaged it out.

[KaizenSoze]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

There aren't a lot of toxic attacks in the game that can benefit from Venom nade. Trust me I have tried them all.

 

Poisonous ray is by far the best, but it's not awesome. I am going to repec into PR for now and see how it plays.

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, GM Kaiju said:

I love Banes but am pretty ambivalent on Poisonous Ray. It does good damage... eventually. The DoT is the main downside as it seems to mostly get negated by subsequent attacks and teammates. It’s nice for runners and for AVs/monsters/etc. but meh for everything else IMO.

If you like Banes... could you whisper into the dev's ears... no re-draw.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Why yes, I *did* just make a SoA named "Poisonous Ray" on Excelsior.

[GM Kaiju]

3 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

If you like Banes... could you whisper into the dev's ears... no re-draw.

Haha my whisper capability is exactly the same as yours! To the suggestions forum!

 

But yes, I 100% agree. I even pass up venom grenade and go mace-only just to avoid redraw. ☹️

[KaizenSoze]

9 minutes ago, GM Kaiju said:

Haha my whisper capability is exactly the same as yours! To the suggestions forum!

 

But yes, I 100% agree. I even pass up venom grenade and go mace-only just to avoid redraw. ☹️

Sigh. I have spent some much time optimizing pure mace Banes.

 

But it's so hard to give up that one-two punch of Venom and Frag nade.

 

My previous attempts.

 

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Thank you for all the replies.

 

There aren't a lot of toxic attacks in the game that can benefit from Venom nade. Trust me I have tried them all.

 

Poisonous ray is by far the best, but it's not awesome. I am going to repec into PR for now and see how it plays.

For what it's worth, there are situations in the game where having a Ranged Toxic attack has benefits. For example, in the ITF many of the enemies have Energized Shield which gives defense for all types other than Toxic and Psionic. You'll be able to cut through that quite easily

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

For what it's worth, there are situations in the game where having a Ranged Toxic attack has benefits. For example, in the ITF many of the enemies have Energized Shield which gives defense for all types other than Toxic and Psionic. You'll be able to cut through that quite easily

 Continuing on the toxic topic. I have tried to maximize toxic damage with the build.

 

For instance, I am using, Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface, using the math that if Venom nade is active on a target it will do ~56 vs ~40 points of damage to effected targets.

 

That Venom nade also boosts the single target mace attacks which all have a toxic dot component.  It's nice to walk away from a 95% dead mob knowing the dots will take care it.

 

The only thing I haven't put in is the Gladiator's Javelin Toxic Proc piece. I didn't want to lose the purple bonuses from Apoc.

 

Side note, Bane mace attacks do as much total damage as scrapper War Mace. Scrappers don't get the dots, but their base damage is higher. Crits are where scrappers pull ahead.

[KaizenSoze]

Current experimentation.

 

I have greatly decreased my Trapdoor clear times from 10 to 7-8 mins.

 

I dropped Poison Ray because I needed those slots.

 

I proc'ed out several attacks and took provoke. Using provoke liberally keeps the mobs tightly packed for nades and crowd control.

 

Due to the large number of debuffs and dots Banes and Widows inflict on the mobs. Runners are a series DPS hit.

 

Provoke appears to mostly fix that. Only downside is lower defense.

 

Attack chain: BU-> Crowd Control(Stealth)->VG->FG->Provoke->CC->repeat until single targets are left

 

Build:

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Wasteland Shadow Mixed: Level 50 Magic Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(7)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(11)
Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(15), Krm-ResKB(15)
Level 4: Wolf Spider Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResKB(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), GssSynFr--Build%(25)
Level 8: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(31)
Level 14: Pulverize -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(33), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(34)
Level 16: Provoke -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(42), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(43), MckBrt-Rchg(50)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), Rgn-Dmg(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34), PstBls-Dam%(36), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(36), ExpStr-Dam%(36)
Level 20: Shatter -- Hct-Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dam%(37), Mk'Bit-Dam%(37), GldStr-%Dam(37), Hct-Dam%(39)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 28: Surveillance -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(46), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(46), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(48)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Arm-Dmg(A), Erd-%Dam(39), Obl-%Dam(40), ScrDrv-Dam%(40), Arm-Dam%(40), ExpStr-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-Psi/Status(43), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(45), Ags-ResDam(45), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(46), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning | Hidden
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-EndMod(19), PrfShf-End%(21)
Level 8: Double Jump
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Radial Paragon
------------
------------

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by KaizenSoze

[KaizenSoze]

A video is worth a thousand posts. Here is my 7:33 Trapdoor run.

 

Sorry no sound. I did execute almost a perfect stealth crowd control hit at 6:00.

 

@Hew Note, I almost have a complete nade-crowd control cycles. If I hadn't proc'ed out the attacks, probably would have been seamless.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by KaizenSoze