Tank/Brute SR Evasion Missing Taunt?

[Bill Z Bubba]

As shown below, and this is the same case for brutes as well, why isn't Evasion actually taunting?

 

Here's Tank Evasion:

 

 

Here's Tank Against All Odds:

 

[America's Angel]

@Bill Z BubbaEvasion on tanks taunts just fine on tanks in PvP with the gauntlet proc aura:

 

 

And in PvE:

 

(those mobs ignored me until I turned on Evasion)

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by America's Angel

[Myrmidon]

They likely never added the info to the power description, so it was left out in other data pages. It’s there, no worries.

[America's Angel]

  

1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

They likely never added the info to the power description, so it was left out in other data pages. It’s there, no worries.

 

Actually that's not what is happening here.

 

Evasion on scrappers is missing these child effects that are present in equivalent powers in other sets (Invincibility in Invuln, Against All Odds in Shield, Entropic Shield in EA, etc)

 

This is one thing which can cause a power to work as a taunt aura.

 

And it's also missing these proc auras, which also act as taunt auras when placed into powers:

 

Tank Version:

 

Brute version:

 

As long as a power has one of the above things I just screencapped, it should taunt.

 

If a power only has the child effects, you don't get any text in your combat log when you taunt the enemies. Invincibility on Scrappers is an example of a taunt aura that just uses the child effects. Check the pic below to see it in action.

 

(See how the hellion just attacks, and there's no mention of taunting, even though taunting is happening.)

 

If you have the proc aura versions of a taunt aura, however, your combat log does tell you the taunt aura is active.

 

(Pic below is my Invuln brute running Invincibility.)

 

 

...what's weird, and something I only just noticed, is that some of the Scrapper sets seem to have the brute proc aura in them.

 

Here's a pic of my EA scrapper running Entropic Aura:

 

 

The game should not be telling me my scrapper is taunting mobs with fury.

 

So yeah...taunt auras probably need a pass to clean up some of this and to make sure the right powersets are taunting on the right ATs. (cc @Bopper)

 

Because right now, you have, for example, Invincibility (invuln) taunting on Brutes, Tanks, and Scrappers, but Evasion (SR) only taunting on Brutes and Tanks. There needs to be consistency between ATs. (IMO scrappers should probably have it removed, they're a DPS class, not a tank class.)

And regardless of what is changed, the combat log should not be telling me my scrapper is using fury to taunt enemies.

 

 

 

[Myrmidon]

Evasion is supposed to only be flagged for taunt on Brutes/Tankers because of their aggro control role. You’re absolutely right that it shouldn’t be telling you that.

[America's Angel]

23 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Evasion is supposed to only be flagged for taunt on Brutes/Tankers because of their aggro control role. You’re absolutely right that it shouldn’t be telling you that.

 

It's not quite that straight forward. Plenty of Scrapper powers (including those I listed in my post, such as Invincibility, Against All Odds, and Entropic Aura) are all taunt auras. So it could just as easily be the case that Evasion is missing a taunt aura component.

 

Here's Entropic Aura on Scrappers:

 

Here's Evasion on Scrappers:

 

Here's Invincibility on Scrappers:

 

As you can see, it's a little all over the place about which powers get what. Invincibility gets the Child Effects, Entropic Aura gets the Child Effects AND the taunt proc, and Evasion gets...nothing.

 

Whether SR needs a taunt adding, or Invuln/EA/shield/etc need taunt removing, is something for the devs to figure out.

For reference, here's a list of Scrapper powers with taunt auras:

• Bio/Evolving Armor
• Invuln/Invincibility
• EA/Entropic Aura
• Rad/Beta Decay
• Shield/Against All Odds
• Willpower/Rise To The Challenge

They are all 13.6s duration. With the exception of Rise To The Challenge which is 1.25s duration, and Entropic Aura which is 2.25s duration. (Although this doesn't matter so much, as Entropic Aura ALSO has the taunt proc aura, and that lasts 13.6s.)

 

What needs to happen is one of two things:

1. Removing all taunt auras from the above listed scrapper powers.
2. Standardising the taunt duration in the above listed scrapper powers, removing the taunt proc from Scrapper Entropic Aura, and then adding taunt auras to Scrapper  Dark, Elec, Fire, Ice, Ninjitsu, Regen, and SR. (Important note - Scrapper Ice will probably need TWO taunt auras adding if this is the approach taken. As currently the tanker/brute versions of Ice Armour have taunt auras in both Icicles and Chilling Embrace.)

[Myrmidon]

14 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

What needs to happen is one of two things:

1. Removing all taunt auras from the above listed scrapper powers.

That’s the most likely outcome, just replace the Scrapper versions with Sentinel equivalents and we’re good to go.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Scrapper Evasion, at least as per old design, was never supposed to taunt, while brute/tank evasion was. It's all still quite wonky and I completely agree that some standardization should occur.

 

However, I suspect there'd be whole lot of pitchforks if all taunts were removed from the scrapper armors that have them. Might be better just to fix scrapper evasion instead. I see no reason for tank/brute evasion to have a taunt aura but scrapper evasion doesn't anymore, especially if we're defining SR's taunt being that enemies are so pissed off that they can't hit you that it taunts them.

 

Thanks for the added eyes, yall.

[Sovera]

Removing Taunt would be fine if the game behaved a bit more mainstream. Mobs we fight we fight until they die. Instead mobs invariably at 20-30% decide to leg it. All mobs. Every mobs. Even robots of psionic constructs, or ghosts.

 

This is not a case of Scrappers stealing agro from a Tanker or if a Blaster and a Scrapper both hit the same mob it will choose the Scrapper. It is a case of the flee code being extremely, extremely, obnoxious. It adds very little to the experience and in the end it pushes the ATs with agro to the front when soloing and everything else has to bear with enemies sprinting away.

 

But, you say, it's logical. They are running for their life! Well, sure, but after 20-30 seconds they return in dribbles. Lets make up our minds here. Either they are running for their lives and they just huddle to the nearest pack of mobs, or they are running for a bit and then returning later because... the brief sprint activated serotonin and they feel optimistic that they can take the guy who downed all its friends.

 

So we can ignore them and move to the next group, and then if it's a kill all we need to back track and find that one or two mobs who ran off now standing where they were before, or we need to chase them. Or we play something with agro.

 

For all of it's many faults WoW handles it better. Pretty much the only enemies that flee are humanoids. Everything else from animals to constructs will fight to the bitter end. Since it is not about fighting 7-10 enemies at a time it is fine that the single humanoid enemy we are fighting decides to leg it since we just keep on hitting it. But in CoH we have a dozen enemies and we might have half that who decides to run in all directions.

 

 

While this is a bit of a tangent what I am trying to bring to bear is that more ATs wanting taunt is a symptom. The disease is the flee code.

[BillyMailman]

Adding some more detail, once you look into things, you find that SR tankers/brutes effectively don't have a taunt aura. Depending on behaviour.

 

Every taunt aura other than Evasion, does two things taunt-wise. One is that it fires off the Gauntlet/Fury proc on all enemies in the aura. The second is that it taunts those enemies directly. Evasion is missing the latter part. But Gauntlet/Fury doesn't stack with itself.

 

So, e.g., if an SD/SS tanker jumps into a group of mobs and fires off Foot Stomp, those mobs all get the Mag 4/14.96s Gauntlet taunt. A moment later, Against All Odds goes off, resetting the duration on Gauntlet, and adding another Mag 3/13.6s taunt of its own. The tanker now has Mag 7 total taunt on the enemies, which should maintain itself for the whole fight.

On the other hand, if an SR/SS tanker does the same, Foot Stomp will still add the Mag 4/14.96s Gauntlet taunt. Then, when Evasion goes off, it will reset the Gauntlet taunt's timer. That's it. The enemy is left with just a Mag 4 total taunt on them, and that will be all they'll get for the whole fight.

 

As long as a Tanker is attacking, Gauntlet's proc will be hitting most of the enemies around them, anyway. So SR's "taunt aura" power only doing Gauntlet/Fury is, at least for some tankers, equivalent to not having a taunt aura at all. Now, if a Brute is single-target focused and not hitting many enemies, Evasion's really useful, since it'll keep the Fury proc up on everything. But all it takes is the occasional Spin/Foot Stomp/Quills/Whirling Smash/etc. to keep that up anyway, and now Evasion's not really helping you keep aggro.

[EldritchDrake]

4 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

That’s the most likely outcome, just replace the Scrapper versions with Sentinel equivalents and we’re good to go.

 

Don't see the reason to nerf scrappers that harshly.

[Replacement]

3 hours ago, BillyMailman said:

Adding some more detail, once you look into things, you find that SR tankers/brutes effectively don't have a taunt aura. Depending on behaviour.

 

Every taunt aura other than Evasion, does two things taunt-wise. One is that it fires off the Gauntlet/Fury proc on all enemies in the aura. The second is that it taunts those enemies directly. Evasion is missing the latter part. But Gauntlet/Fury doesn't stack with itself.

 

So, e.g., if an SD/SS tanker jumps into a group of mobs and fires off Foot Stomp, those mobs all get the Mag 4/14.96s Gauntlet taunt. A moment later, Against All Odds goes off, resetting the duration on Gauntlet, and adding another Mag 3/13.6s taunt of its own. The tanker now has Mag 7 total taunt on the enemies, which should maintain itself for the whole fight.

On the other hand, if an SR/SS tanker does the same, Foot Stomp will still add the Mag 4/14.96s Gauntlet taunt. Then, when Evasion goes off, it will reset the Gauntlet taunt's timer. That's it. The enemy is left with just a Mag 4 total taunt on them, and that will be all they'll get for the whole fight.

 

As long as a Tanker is attacking, Gauntlet's proc will be hitting most of the enemies around them, anyway. So SR's "taunt aura" power only doing Gauntlet/Fury is, at least for some tankers, equivalent to not having a taunt aura at all. Now, if a Brute is single-target focused and not hitting many enemies, Evasion's really useful, since it'll keep the Fury proc up on everything. But all it takes is the occasional Spin/Foot Stomp/Quills/Whirling Smash/etc. to keep that up anyway, and now Evasion's not really helping you keep aggro.

 

The understanding was that Taunt isn't like traditional mez: only the highest magnitude takes effect. This means a tanker taunt always completely overrides brute taunt just because it is 0.1 mag higher.

 

The relevant point here is the "direct" taunt effects do not stack with the proc to mag 7.

 

I believe what you are actually seeing is a power where the new implementation (proc) is overriding the old implementation that just hasn't been removed yet.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Replacement