Clearing locked character names

[ZemX]

4 minutes ago, Greycat said:

But, again... even if all those accounts were inactive, it doesn't mean the name (generic) *you* want

 

I'm not saying it will free up any names *I* personally, want.  But that anybody wants?  That's the part I find hard to believe no matter what that wiki says.  Like I said, my own experience with SWTOR is that I've had names I lost due to inactivity.  In much less than two years.  And they weren't even the kinds of names we have here.  They weren't even words in any language.  Just names I put together phonetically that sounded "Star Warsy" to me.   And boom... they got taken.  And not just one of them.  Several.   

 

Also, we've all seen plenty of names like Snarky's "c10wny" example where it was obvious people wanted a name that was taken, so came up with some variant using numbers or punctuation or misspelling.  Doesn't mean the person who had it wasn't also an active player on that server, but odds are decent they aren't. Maybe not that they've been inactive two years but... we wouldn't know until we tried it.

 

I don't see the harm in it.  Two years is more than reasonable and if nobody wants them then nobody whose been complaining in this thread is losing a name when it's unreserved, right?

[ZemX]

12 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Making a big assumption here that people who joined in 2019 used up every character slot on every server name squatting.  

 

No, I'm not.

[ZacKing]

3 minutes ago, ZemX said:

No, I'm not.

 

Going to call BS on this one man.  You don't have any idea how many inactives there are with every character slot on every server used, if there's any at all.

[Tiger Shadow]

Would one of you please upload an avatar? Both of you using the default Z is making me use brain power I just don't have before my morning coffee.

[Greycat]

56 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

I'm not saying it will free up any names *I* personally, want.  But that anybody wants?

 

That's why I had the (generic) in front of "you." To indicate it isn't YOU, ZemX, specifically.

 

And whether you (non generic) want to believe it or not... that's what happened. Would some names be freed that someone else takes? Sure. The actual impact, though, would probably still be underwhelming.

[ZemX]

41 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Going to call BS on this one man.  You don't have any idea how many inactives there are with every character slot on every server used, if there's any at all.

 

Seriously... what the hell are you even going on about?  I didn't say anything about every character slot on every server being used.  Why are you talking about that?  It's got nothing to do with anything.

[arcane]

19 minutes ago, Greycat said:

The actual impact, though, would probably still be underwhelming.

We would probably still get threads asking to expand the policy for as long as some people don’t get every name they want.

[ZemX]

4 minutes ago, Greycat said:

And whether you (non generic) want to believe it or not... that's what happened. Would some names be freed that someone else takes? Sure. The actual impact, though, would probably still be underwhelming.

 

It's a report of what happened and it stretches credulity, which is why I am questioning it.  There should have been hundreds of thousands of inactive accounts when they ran those scripts but I'm supposed to believe that freed up no names anybody wanted?  Bull.  Either that or their decision to cut it off at level 35 was wrong.  How many people played the game to 50 and then left for good, having "finished" it?

 

When you consider that the kinds of names people make in this game aren't nearly as random as in other games.  They are most often some type of descriptive powers-based thing.  They are more likely to be thought of by multiple people than my much more random SWTOR names and yet even THOSE were taken while I was away.

 

Hell, what's your own experience?  When in the character creator, how often do you try to come up with a name and it's taken?  When you consider that the number of active accounts right now is probably a tenth of the total accounts that exist, the odds are high the person who has that name isn't playing.  Have they not played for two years?  That's much harder to say.  But worth a look.

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

We would probably still get threads asking to expand the policy for as long as some people don’t get every name they want.

 

So?  It is a "slippery slope" fallacy to suggest that just because there is a name release policy that it would inevitably be expanded.  Every rule in the game draws a line somewhere and the act of drawing it doesn't imply it MUST move.

[Greycat]

22 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

It's a report of what happened and it stretches credulity, which is why I am questioning it. 

 

 

And yet we have people from live here, when it happened, who can back it up. It happened precisely like that.

 

22 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Hell, what's your own experience?  When in the character creator, how often do you try to come up with a name and it's taken?

 

I can think of exactly one name in my hundred-plus characters (I'm probably coming up on two hundred, total, with all servers and both accounts) where this has been an issue. And I make alts... I'm not going to say "frequently," but often enough as a new idea comes along I want to try or an idea for a new character or plot comes along.

 

Edit: Eh, two, but one was so obvious it didn't surprise me. I've been more surprised at the names I *have* gotten.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Greycat

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

So?  It is a "slippery slope" fallacy to suggest that just because there is a name release policy that it would inevitably be expanded.  Every rule in the game draws a line somewhere and the act of drawing it doesn't imply it MUST move.

Eh, I was more getting at “no evidence the people with a problem will even be appeased”.

[arcane]

20 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

It's a report of what happened and it stretches credulity, which is why I am questioning it.  There should have been hundreds of thousands of inactive accounts when they ran those scripts but I'm supposed to believe that freed up no names anybody wanted?  Bull.  Either that or their decision to cut it off at level 35 was wrong.  How many people played the game to 50 and then left for good, having "finished" it?

If you’re implying we should consider taking names from level 50’s, you’re going far beyond the proposed policy we know about. A little too far to negotiate with.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I can think of exactly one name in my hundred-plus characters (I'm probably coming up on two hundred, total, with all servers and both accounts) where this has been an issue. And I make alts... I'm not going to say "frequently," but often enough as a new idea comes along I want to try or an idea for a new character or plot comes along.

 

Yep, I find most names I try (surely >90%) aren’t taken as long as I put on my anti-obvious cap (don’t waste time trying “Lady Fire” or “Ice Man”).

Edited August 25, 2021 by arcane

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Are you reading some of your posts?  LMAO 

 

I haven't been reading that guys post for a long time. I have him on ignore.

Saves a lot of wasted time.

[ZemX]

12 minutes ago, Greycat said:

And yet we have people from live here, when it happened, who can back it up. It happened precisely like that.

 

What happened that anyone on Live would notice? I was on Live too and I don't remember this at all.    You don't SEE these names being released.  You wouldn't know if a new name you picked was available because of this release script being run unless you had tried it immediately afterwards.  Most people who run into a name collision figure out a new name and are on their way.  They don't try it again.  

 

But look, forget it.  You are just gonna keep repeating that it happened the way the devs claimed it did and I'm gonna keep point out how I think it's completely ridiculous that you could have released hundreds of thousands of names nobody wanted.  I'm not saying anybody is lying.  I'm saying there's something about that that is probably missing that explains it.  Maybe, like I said, they were wrong to cut it off at 35.   When you think of people who would have gotten burned out playing and quit, isn't it likely they got at least one character to 50?  I certainly did when I left CoH for a time before returning for CoV.

 

19 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I can think of exactly one name in my hundred-plus characters (I'm probably coming up on two hundred, total, with all servers and both accounts) where this has been an issue.

 

You are 199 for 200 on getting the name you typed the very first time?  Because that's what I meant.  I am not saying you couldn't come up with a different name.  Everybody does that.  If you really have gotten that many on your first time, congrats.  But it would have to have something to do with how you pick those names.  People who use common words, which is pretty typical of the genre, would run into collisions a lot more often than that.  

 

Example: I wanted to re-create a stalker from Everlasting on Excelsior.   Name was "Metal Ninja".   On Excelsior?  Taken.   Okay "Iron Ninja"?  Taken.  "Steel Ninja"?  Not taken!  But let me keep looking.  "Chrome Ninja"?  Yeah, I like that better.  Goes with the shiny metallic look.  So I could come up with the name.  But VERY easy to have a collision when you are trying to make a typically simple comic book genre name like that rather than "Glorziblurg Freezonab" or something totally random.  I've certainly been surprised too by what ISN'T taken.  "Annie Matter" my old Rad/Rad corruptor from Virtue, was not taken, surprisingly, in March of this year when I joined HC.  But had I tried "Aunty Matter"?  That would have been taken.

 

And like I've said plenty of times already, there's no guarantee those taken names would not be from active accounts, but the odds are decent that they could be considering the ratio of inactive to active accounts.

[ZacKing]

11 minutes ago, ZemX said:

I am not saying you couldn't come up with a different name.  Everybody does that.

 

Then there's no need for a name release policy if everyone can and does come up with a different name.  

[Greycat]

Just now, ZemX said:

What happened that anyone on Live would notice?

 

They ... tried to get names after the script was run?

The devs reported the results? You know, something that doesn't rely on players self-reporting? (Not that players would know the name was freed up from another account, no.)

 

But, since apparently the only evidence you'll potentially believe involves me figuring out time travel, inventing a time machine, and hauling you back in time to 2007 to speak with the devs and look at the data personally instead of actually believing what they reported then, I'm stepping out of this conversation as it's fairly obviously a waste of time.

 

3 minutes ago, ZemX said:

You are 199 for 200 on getting the name you typed the very first time?  Because that's what I meant. 

 

198, see addendum. That's not what you asked, so stop trying to move the goalpost. But even then, no, I rarely need to retry. Hell, my "hit" rate is probably better than that, as I'll come up with an idea (or someone will make a comment in a raid or mission) and I'll try to /friend that name and see if it's available. It is, roughly half the time. I rarely make characters FROM that, but for checking names? Yeah, they show available pretty often.

 

I didn't have to "try again" on live all too often either, and there were far more names used then.

[arcane]

40 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Example: I wanted to re-create a stalker from Everlasting on Excelsior.   Name was "Metal Ninja".   On Excelsior?  Taken.   Okay "Iron Ninja"?  Taken.  "Steel Ninja"?  Not taken!  But let me keep looking.  "Chrome Ninja"?  Yeah, I like that better.  Goes with the shiny metallic look.  So I could come up with the name.  But VERY easy to have a collision when you are trying to make a typically simple comic book genre name like that rather than "Glorziblurg Freezonab" or something totally random. 

There’s a vast world of words between the simplicity of “Super Boy” and the gobbledygook of “QZ3#%7G” you seem to be neglecting. I suggest speaking to the Name Assistance Brigade.

 

TBH the fact you got a name like “Metal Ninja” on any of the 5 servers is evidence to me that we’ve barely begun to scratch the surface as far as available names go.

Edited August 25, 2021 by arcane

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

198, see addendum. That's not what you asked, so stop trying to move the goalpost.

 

What did you think I asked?  Nobody, in this entire thread, has claimed you can't come up with a character name...eventually.  Of course you can.  We all do.  That's not what any of this was ever about.  It's about getting your first choice, which is usually (but not always) your preferred name.

 

Quote

When in the character creator, how often do you try to come up with a name and it's taken?

 

I'm talking about name checks.  However you do it.  I said character creator, but checking a name with /friend is effectively the same thing.   You come up with a name idea, usually the one you think is most appropriate for that character and then you check it.   Bzzt!  Taken.  So you think of another.  Maybe, on some occasions you even think of a better name in this process, but more often than not, I bet that first name is the "most wanted".  The whole point of asking this is to show how often wanted names are already taken.  From there, you look at the ratio of inactive to active accounts.  The odds that the name is taken by an inactive account are HIGHER than the odds they are on an active account.   There are simply far more inactive accounts.  Now, as I've admitted many times, there's no way we know how many of those are on accounts that have been inactive for two whole years.  It would have to be tried to know for sure.  

 

But.. you provided what I needed anyway, thanks:

 

27 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'll try to /friend that name and see if it's available. It is, roughly half the time.

 

If you don't think 50% of the names you try being taken already put together with the fact that probably only one tenth of accounts that exist are being actively played doesn't add up to a strong possibility that lots of wanted names are sitting in inactive accounts,  then sure... we should leave it here.  Because that's my whole argument.  And I haven't seen anyone explain what's wrong with this logic yet.

 

[ZemX]

38 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Then there's no need for a name release policy if everyone can and does come up with a different name.  

 

Nobody ever said it was a need.  There isn't a single thing in this game that is a "need" including the game itself.  Literally every thing in it is a want, not a need.

 

In other words, what you just said is also no reason NOT to do this.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, ZemX said:

If you don't think 50% of the names you try being taken already put together with the fact that probably only one tenth of accounts that exist are being actively played doesn't add up to a strong possibility that lots of wanted names are sitting in inactive accounts,  then sure... we should leave it here.  Because that's my whole argument.  And I haven't seen anyone explain what's wrong with this logic yet.

 

You need more than a “strong possibility that lots of wanted names are sitting in [currently] inactive accounts” to justify just seizing all the stuff on their accounts. 
 

Just be grateful some of us care about your claims to your own stuff more than you care about a single one of us. Such principles might wind up working in your favor one day.

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

If you don't think 50% of the names you try being taken already put together with the fact that probably only one tenth of accounts that exist are being actively played doesn't add up to a strong possibility that lots of wanted names are sitting in inactive accounts,  then sure... we should leave it here.  Because that's my whole argument.  And I haven't seen anyone explain what's wrong with this logic yet.

 

 

First, you don't know what kind of checks I'm making on what kind of name.

 

Second, no, I'm not giving you any sort of statistic when I say "half the time." That's generally recognized as a fairly throwaway "sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not." I could have said "six of one, half dozen of the other." That does not mean I made 12 name checks and had half unavailable. It's a *figure of speech,* not a statistic.

 

(For the record, most of the time when I'm looking up something like that - like I said, mid-raid or the like - it's something *very* much in the "obvious name" window, or something that's a pun on something. Which does skew results on what I look for.)

 

But you go latching onto that instead of the *actual* portion from *actual* experince I can give numbers with, chuckles. Shows just how honest you're wanting to be in this.  You're not listening, and I wouldn't have bothered replying other than you trying to distort what I say.

 

Also, don't make assumptions on the kinds of names I find. I have maybe 10% "name-names" (like peoples' names or a designation,) which would be highly unlikely to be taken, but the rest have a pretty wide range... none of which are zagapoidgh falskdfjadslf or whatever you had.  And I'm primarily on Everlasting, one of the higher pop servers - and also an RP server, which tends to mean people *are* more picky about the names they get.

[ZemX]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

You need more than a “strong possibility that lots of wanted names are sitting in [currently] inactive accounts” to justify just seizing all the stuff on their accounts.

 

You are not quoting fact or law here.  This is your opinion.  Mine is that logging in once in two years is more than reasonable to keep your "stuff" from being considered abandoned.  It is far more than most other MMOs allow.

 

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

Just be grateful some of us care about your claims to your own stuff more than you care about a single one of us. Such principles might wind up working in your favor one day.

 

I neither want or need your gratitude.  The policy I'm talking about would apply to all including me.  And since I consider two years an acceptable time to log in if I want to keep MY stuff... 

 

ACCEPTED!

[arcane]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

I neither want or need your gratitude.  The policy I'm talking about would apply to all including me.  And since I consider two years an acceptable time to log in if I want to keep MY stuff... 

 

ACCEPTED!

How gracious of you to design a policy to benefit yourself at the expense of others and then *gasp* agree to it. Very noble.

[ZemX]

8 minutes ago, Greycat said:

But you go latching onto that instead of the *actual* portion from *actual* experince I can give numbers with, chuckles. Shows just how honest you're wanting to be in this.  You're not listening, and I wouldn't have bothered replying other than you trying to distort what I say.

 

I'm not trying to twist anything.  I asked what I thought was a simple question.  You misunderstood it.  And now you're insulting me over your misunderstanding.   You might want to notice I haven't returned fire.  I believe you're upset and I'm trying to tell you that's not my intention.

 

The entire point of asking was to establish about how often you name check and hit a taken name.  A name that you want for a character.   The only point of asking that is to establish how many taken names are wanted names.  Remember when you told me none of the released names from Live were "wanted"?   I said I had a hard time believing that and to support that I am trying to estimate how many wanted names might be in inactive accounts.  There is no trickery here.  If you know a better way to do that, tell me.