First time DB/WP scrapper

[Xandyr]

Hey all

   I normally play tanks, but wanted to give Scrappers a try. I've decided on DB/WP (mainly because I've not played DB since they first came out on Live). I decided on WP, because,well, I really like my WP tank.

  I know I won't even come close to the regen I have on my WP. Since I'm coming from a tank, and built everything for as much max ho,regen, and defense as I could, how should I approach making a DB/WP scrap?

 I played in mids, and got my defense to 45% to fcen, and can't remember what the max hp and regen was.

 Should I not worry too much and try to slot attacks as much as I can and hope I arrest quicker then I faceplant? Or build on hp,regen,defenses and know that I (should) outlast everything?

Thanks

 - X

[Meknomancer]

45% f/c/ne/e and 75% s/l res then pour everything into your regen. Lost all my old builds and can barely remember how i built my 5-6 wp scraps now or what server they were on but i did have a db/wp knocking about somewhere. As long as you remember its not a tank and plan to dps stuff you'll be fine......unless you just build it as a tank and realise the dps probably isn't that much different anymore. Tanks have it so good right now its hard to look at brute/scrap AT's and think they will be better. 

[Nemu]

DB/WP was pretty popular back on live, but I believe that's mostly due to the fact that both were released at the same time.

 

I don't see any great synergies between the two. Sure WP is low maintenance and allows you to focus on DB combos, but DB combos are meh and high end DB builds skip them entirely in favor of a streamlined chain that doesn't look awkward either. WP is one of those secondaries that requires a bit more investment and slotting specific for survival goals, and that takes away your ability to build for damage/recharge.

 

Assuming budget is not an issue, if you want to see the high end of the DB ceiling pair it up with a secondary that offers +recharge, endurance management, and requires relatively low investment into survival. Of all the scrapper secondaries I find Energy Aura to be the most suitable pairing. It's got taunt, recharge, end management, heal and is a defense build that naturally let's you 5x LOTGs and softcap without going out of your way to do so. If you are worried about psi and neg energy, that's what shadowmeld is for, and that also benefits from high recharge.

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, Nemu said:

DB/WP was pretty popular back on live, but I believe that's mostly due to the fact that both were released at the same time.

 

I don't see any great synergies between the two. Sure WP is low maintenance and allows you to focus on DB combos, but DB combos are meh and high end DB builds skip them entirely in favor of a streamlined chain that doesn't look awkward either. WP is one of those secondaries that requires a bit more investment and slotting specific for survival goals, and that takes away your ability to build for damage/recharge.

 

Assuming budget is not an issue, if you want to see the high end of the DB ceiling pair it up with a secondary that offers +recharge, endurance management, and requires relatively low investment into survival. Of all the scrapper secondaries I find Energy Aura to be the most suitable pairing. It's got taunt, recharge, end management, heal and is a defense build that naturally let's you 5x LOTGs and softcap without going out of your way to do so. If you are worried about psi and neg energy, that's what shadowmeld is for, and that also benefits from high recharge.

 

The synergy is the same synergy WP has with all weapon sets...no redraw 🙂

[Xandyr]

6 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

45% f/c/ne/e and 75% s/l res then pour everything into your regen. Lost all my old builds and can barely remember how i built my 5-6 wp scraps now or what server they were on but i did have a db/wp knocking about somewhere. As long as you remember its not a tank and plan to dps stuff you'll be fine......unless you just build it as a tank and realise the dps probably isn't that much different anymore. Tanks have it so good right now its hard to look at brute/scrap AT's and think they will be better. 

So, you're saying it would be better as a tank?

[Meknomancer]

I'm saying scraps/brutes are pretty much obsolete as the game stands. Tankers got a bit of a damage buff and most of their cones/pbaoes will hit more targets than other melee AT's and they have the better AT sets. Only the stalker ones are as good. Its easier to hit def+res numbers on the tank, damage is pretty good and you'll hit more enemies with your attacks, your infinitely more survivable and because your def+res numbers are that much better you don't have to slot for set bonuses the same way which means you can go proc heavy builds which scrap+brute can't match and both of those usually have to split their AT sets to get some decent def numbers. You only have to look at the number of tanks that are now soloing content at+4/8 (like the ITF challenge/rikti pylon times/trapdoor results) and the majority of tank builds are now skipping taunt in favour of anything that will bump their damage. Theres no real reason to play a brute/scrap now that you can build a tank that can compare dps wise. Just take the powersets you want throw them on a tank and play and build it as a scrapper. I'm saying yes...it would be better as a tank but there's very few melee combo's now that aren't better as a tank. The game has always had a bit of unbalance in it, you can make any AT and combo work and i was loving the update that helped out the tanks, its only now after a few months that i realise its swung so far in their favour its rendered the other melee AT's insignificant. They are still fun they just aren't in the same place anymore. Last 8-9 tf's i've been on its been 5-6 tanks and blasters and the odd other AT like a corr/pb/mm and those other AT's haven't been needed. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that stopped building brutes/scraps and started switching all my melee AT's to tanks.

[Triumphant]

1 hour ago, Meknomancer said:

I'm saying scraps/brutes are pretty much obsolete as the game stands. Tankers got a bit of a damage buff and most of their cones/pbaoes will hit more targets than other melee AT's and they have the better AT sets. Only the stalker ones are as good. Its easier to hit def+res numbers on the tank, damage is pretty good and you'll hit more enemies with your attacks, your infinitely more survivable and because your def+res numbers are that much better you don't have to slot for set bonuses the same way which means you can go proc heavy builds which scrap+brute can't match and both of those usually have to split their AT sets to get some decent def numbers. You only have to look at the number of tanks that are now soloing content at+4/8 (like the ITF challenge/rikti pylon times/trapdoor results) and the majority of tank builds are now skipping taunt in favour of anything that will bump their damage. Theres no real reason to play a brute/scrap now that you can build a tank that can compare dps wise. Just take the powersets you want throw them on a tank and play and build it as a scrapper. I'm saying yes...it would be better as a tank but there's very few melee combo's now that aren't better as a tank. The game has always had a bit of unbalance in it, you can make any AT and combo work and i was loving the update that helped out the tanks, its only now after a few months that i realise its swung so far in their favour its rendered the other melee AT's insignificant. They are still fun they just aren't in the same place anymore. Last 8-9 tf's i've been on its been 5-6 tanks and blasters and the odd other AT like a corr/pb/mm and those other AT's haven't been needed. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that stopped building brutes/scraps and started switching all my melee AT's to tanks.

 

Tanks are cool.  I have a Tier 3 incarnate Rad/TW that is nigh indestructible.  However, his damage output is nothing compared to my scrappers and brutes, so I can't agree with you from the damage perspective.

 

FWIW, Blasters are the most overpowered AT, imo.  Such things are subjective, of course- but I think group play bears this out.  I'm looking forward to the new Doc Aeon Strike force that's coming out, as this may (hopefully) provide a challenge requiring groups to leverage a broad selection of AT's to achieve victory.

[Meknomancer]

Yes you can build tanks to be pretty much unkillable but you could also do dps builds that will match brute/scrap damage especially with rad/ proc heavy builds although i totally agree on the blaster being the most OP AT in the game now. 

[Meknomancer]

Proc Monsters - Tanker Edition - Tanker - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

[Meknomancer]

Seeing some negative responses to me saying its become a little unbalanced melee AT wise due to the tanker changes 🙂

I think of it like this....if you have 1 AT that can run content fairly easily and complete it solo with most primary and secondary powersets (and right now thats tanks running the itf challenge) which only 1-2 scraps can manage and i have yet to see someone post about their brute doing so, a couple of domi builds and......nothing else then clearly there is an imbalance when the tank AT which was originally put in to take all the aggro for the rest of the team but had low dps to make up for its survivability is now putting out sufficient dps to put it near the top of the list. I'm not talking about killing speed i'm talking about the ability to take out av/gm and enough dps for the toughest content in game. If you bump a single AT dps to such an extent mostly due to AT sets and ability to proc out their attacks while maintaining their toughness then should you do the same to all the other AT's and bump their defence and resist to tanker levels so that they too can survive long enough to do the same. Extreme example i know but thats just what i'm seeing in game right now since the tanker changes. I wouldn't want that you'd end up playing a game with no variety and the variety is what i love about coh. It just feels like it went too far- if scrapper and brutes had got the same changes to the number of targets they hit with cones/pbaoe's etc. i don't think it would feel like they have become second class melee AT's to the tank.  

[Frozen Burn]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:23 AM, Triumphant said:

....FWIW, Blasters are the most overpowered AT, imo.  Such things are subjective, of course- but I think group play bears this out....

 

Blasters are supposed to be the most powered AT.  Eons ago, the highest was Scrappers because they're were in melee and didn't have defenses as high as tankers.  But that was switched because blasters have many secondaries that cause them to go into melee and they didn't have the defenses to survive - so Devs made squishie blasters the highest powered.  This is correct and as it should be.  Highest damage / no inherent defense.  Yes, SOME blasters (not all) can get capped defenses with sets and special builds, but not all can (and this can be said about any AT).  So it still stands that Blasters should reign king on damage.

 

5 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

Seeing some negative responses to me saying its become a little unbalanced melee AT wise due to the tanker changes 🙂

I think of it like this....if you have 1 AT that can run content fairly easily and complete it solo with most primary and secondary powersets (and right now thats tanks running the itf challenge) which only 1-2 scraps can manage and i have yet to see someone post about their brute doing so, a couple of domi builds and......nothing else then clearly there is an imbalance when the tank AT which was originally put in to take all the aggro for the rest of the team but had low dps to make up for its survivability is now putting out sufficient dps to put it near the top of the list. I'm not talking about killing speed i'm talking about the ability to take out av/gm and enough dps for the toughest content in game. If you bump a single AT dps to such an extent mostly due to AT sets and ability to proc out their attacks while maintaining their toughness then should you do the same to all the other AT's and bump their defence and resist to tanker levels so that they too can survive long enough to do the same. Extreme example i know but thats just what i'm seeing in game right now since the tanker changes. I wouldn't want that you'd end up playing a game with no variety and the variety is what i love about coh. It just feels like it went too far- if scrapper and brutes had got the same changes to the number of targets they hit with cones/pbaoe's etc. i don't think it would feel like they have become second class melee AT's to the tank.  

 

I agree with you, Meknomancer - Tankers are now overpowered for what they are / provide. 

 

Unfortunately, it started with the Brutes whose defenses weren't as good as tankers, but the AT was the "tanker" for villains.  The Brutes got beefed up back during live and with any AT being able to be hero or villain side, there was little or no need to roll a Tank, because a Brute could "Tank" and do more damage - they really made Tanks a useless AT, sadly.  So I was pleased that Tanks got a rightful buff to damage - they sorely needed it as soloing was painful - but they went too far with it. 

 

IMO, both Brutes and Tanks need a slight tweaking... Brutes need lessening on the defenses, and Tanks need lessening on the offense (but both still better than what they were previously) - just need a better balance to keep the ATs separate and unique and balanced with other ATs. 

 

[Saikochoro]

Shoot for to softcap defense on f/c/e/n. Shoot for hardcap s/l resistance. When I say shoot for I don’t mean to meet those goals at all costs. Don’t completely neuter your damage to chase survivability. WP gives you some good mitigation for psi so that is a plus. Where you are able get some Regen and +max hp, but I wouldn’t go crazy on that. Rise to the challenge will be your main then source in any case. 
 

The reason to go scrapper is to have better damage than a tanker or brute. So I wouldn’t go crazy trying to make you scrapper as tough as tank. You won’t be able to no matter what you do and you lose sight of the goal of a scrapper - to do crazy damage while still surviving. 
 

Dual blades thrives on recharge. You have basically two really good options for damage. You can do blinding feint + attack vitals combo on repeat. This doesn’t require as much recharge and is easier to accomplish with a more defensive focus, but still does great damage. Or you can go blinding fient>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike. This requires A LOT of recharge, but is very high damage. Make sure to put the -res procs in ablaiting and sweeping strike. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Saikochoro