Focused Feedback: Seismic Blast

[WindDemon21]

6 hours ago, Nemu said:

I think power gamers will only use the empowered buff for seismic force with a gaussian's proc. I tried the other empowered powers and found the timing unreliable since building stacks of seismic force and getting the actual buff to proc is not as cadenced and thus predictable as building charges in water blast. With the latter is 1,2,3 go, with the former it's 1,2,3,4?,5?,6?,7? ok now I get the proc go.

 

I tried the other spenders, the lack of consistency in anticipating when I can use them in a chain starts to annoy me once I got past the novelty of a new set. Aim though, that's always a nice low investment buff to have and I see the whole mechanic as a free stalkers ATO build up recharge proc which I'm actually cool with.

This. This is basically what I was saying for rock shards boosted range from the mechanic. The lack of control on when it happens is a big issue. I would be happier if those powers were instead altered to a middle ground of seismic force on/off, and then make seismic force ONLY give you the tremors. That or build up force as a buff similar to savage stacks (which fyi please remove the blood stack lockout, biggest annoyance/dumb part of savage, use the stacks sure, lockout, BAD).

[Wavicle]

27 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

This. This is basically what I was saying for rock shards boosted range from the mechanic. The lack of control on when it happens is a big issue. I would be happier if those powers were instead altered to a middle ground of seismic force on/off, and then make seismic force ONLY give you the tremors. That or build up force as a buff similar to savage stacks (which fyi please remove the blood stack lockout, biggest annoyance/dumb part of savage, use the stacks sure, lockout, BAD).

You avoid the lockout by hitting the spender at 4 instead of 5.

[ScarySai]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

You avoid the lockout by hitting the spender at 4 instead of 5.

 

Yeah, but he's saying it shouldn't lock out to begin with, which I kinda agree with.

 

But that's not really related. The seismic empowered abilities need to either be mega-buffed, or the entire mechanic needs to be reworked to not be a one-cast thing.

[Underfyre]

39 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

But that's not really related. The seismic empowered abilities need to either be mega-buffed, or the entire mechanic needs to be reworked to not be a one-cast thing.

 

If the options are to use one of two lackluster attacks, or to use a buff twice as often, the two attacks should be in direct competition with the buff. right now it's not even a thought, you use the buff.

[ScarySai]

Just now, underfyre said:

 

If the options are to use one of two lackluster attacks, or to use a buff twice as often, the two attacks should be in direct competition with the buff. right now it's not even a thought, you use the buff.

 

Currently, It's like pulling a slot machine fifty times, and you win a quarter back as the jackpot.

 

Meanwhile, elec blast is over cleaning house at the blackjack table.

[Trike]

8 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

This. This is basically what I was saying for rock shards boosted range from the mechanic. The lack of control on when it happens is a big issue. I would be happier if those powers were instead altered to a middle ground of seismic force on/off, and then make seismic force ONLY give you the tremors. That or build up force as a buff similar to savage stacks (which fyi please remove the blood stack lockout, biggest annoyance/dumb part of savage, use the stacks sure, lockout, BAD).

I did find its range to be highly variable. One time I missed the group I attacked and hit a guy in the next group. Is that some kind of buff from the set or a glitch?

[Wavicle]

Just now, Trike said:

I did find its range to be highly variable. One time I missed the group I attacked and hit a guy in the next group. Is that some kind of buff from the set or a glitch?

That’s how the power works. You get extra Range on the cone when you’re buffed.

[Glacier Peak]

Jumping in with my anecdotal feedback on Seismic Blast (and Earth Manipulation):

 

Short and sweet: Amazing sets, both visually and mechanically. I don't play Blaster very much, I am more of a Corruptor sort of player. The added effects (looking at Knockback/Down specifically) add SO MUCH survivability to these sets. Drawback is currently my own learning curve, I don't understand the mechanics well enough yet, lots of circles showing up in my tray around powers. This is not a fault (haha get it!) of the set, I just need to play it more to better understand it. I was able to enjoy Water Blast and Street Justice after a while, I know this will occur eventually for the Seismic Blast/ Earth Manipulation sets. 

 

Spoiler

 

Seismic Blast

1. Testing on an average (subjectively), SO-only Level 50 build (Seismic Blast/Earth Manipulation), with NO RESISTANCE OR DEFENSE powers or set bonuses, fighting mobs in Peregrine Island. I was capable of juggling and manipulating enemy mobs in to the air with my knockback/down powers that they didn't even manage to set off attacks. The viability of knockback/down powers are so underrated in my experience (only played a Storm Defender) but holy smokes - why even bother with chasing resistance or defense when you can just glass canon everything with knockback/down powers. I've got every power from the set selected, I open with Build Up and Seismic Force, drop a knockback/down power (either Upthrust or Tremor) then Meteor (good lord this is such a beautiful power, so much props to the designer, please don't change a thing about it!!!). After this point it is just a matter of juggling the enemies or targeting the main threat in the mob (usually the boss, but maybe the mezzer or special enemy).

2. Power icons are excellent, I may sort of echo what folks have said about certain ones not visually explaining what they are, but at the same time, it is a new set that will be learned eventually so this isn't worth changing IMO. Tombstone is a great power, in fact, all of the powers in the set feel balanced damage-wise (on SOs). The problem isn't that there are a few good ones and the rest are terrible, its that they are all effective and I have to prioritize which to select (this is a great thing to have to do for a build!).

3. As I mentioned above, I am not adept at the set's mechanics just yet. It is not a set you can just pick up and know how to use effectively immediately (I am thinking Fire Blast as the easiest example of this). This is more along the lines of Water Blast and maybe even Psi Blast. That is not to say that is a bad thing, in fact I love the added layer to the set and I hope it continues to exist as such when ported to live.

 

Earth Manipulation

1. Fracture has a hella long recharge. 1 minute 30 seconds base for a power that does Mag 2 stun for 15 seconds? Okay, I am not a controller so that is fine. I can always build around recharge and +special effects to make this power worth it.

2. I dig the two toggles, Mud Bath and Beryl Crystals. Not much to say about them, but they are a welcomed change from the Absorb Shield I've seen a lot of added to recent Blaster secondary powers that feel too much like Sentinel armors. 

3. Seismic Smash is a very heavy hitting power. And it's nicely procable! And it has a Mag 3 hold! Wow!

 

Other

1. Why is there a ton of powers in the power window:

Spoiler

2. Not seeing the +33% accuracy in my combat attributes window from Beryl Crystals

Spoiler

 

[WindDemon21]

23 hours ago, Wavicle said:

You avoid the lockout by hitting the spender at 4 instead of 5.

I'm aware, which is still annoying/detrimental depending on what you're doing. A lockout is 100% unnecessary and should just be a "spend" only.

[oedipus_tex]

My only regret about Tombstone is if you kill something with it doesn't mockingly leave behind a tombstone. 

 

Great work on the set overall. 

[Underfyre]

Alright, so I haven't run an in game tests on it yet, but the numbers say that using the improved Stalagmite instead of using the improved build up will yield a higher damage output.

[Golden Azrael]

18 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

My only regret about Tombstone is if you kill something with it doesn't mockingly leave behind a tombstone. 

 

Great work on the set overall. 

 

2nded on the Tombstone idea. 😛

 

This set feels really SUPER heroic.  A true next generation power set that feels like progress.

 

Knock up.  Knock down.  Or just knock them clean out of the warehouse.  Widescreen playability.  

 

The Meteor Nova would make the Energy Blaster's Nova blush.  (There was one comic moment a Vampire got knocked right towards me in a 1st person camera splat kind of way.  Perfection.)  A seismic blast that rocks the warehouse the council are fighting you in.  Red alert...hero has breached our base!  He's just blown the east wing...

 

Phenomenal job on this power set.  Progressive.  Expansive.  It shows the kind of design 'reach' all the power sets should have.

Visually spectacular.  Imaginative use of stone in an ice cream parlour of different flavours.  Blaster set redefining.  Truly ambitious.  CoH 2.0 NeXt territory.

 

There's a new kid in town.  Pointing to the future of all power sets.  *Somehow playing with the Assault rifle pop gun won't ever be the same.

 

Epic.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

"Short and sweet: Amazing sets, both visually and mechanically. I don't play Blaster very much, I am more of a Corruptor sort of player. The added effects (looking at Knockback/Down specifically) add SO MUCH survivability to these sets. Drawback is currently my own learning curve, I don't understand the mechanics well enough yet, lots of circles showing up in my tray around powers. This is not a fault (haha get it!) of the set, I just need to play it more to better understand it. I was able to enjoy Water Blast and Street Justice after a while, I know this will occur eventually for the Seismic Blast/ Earth Manipulation sets." 

 

What that guy said.

 

Azrael.

[Hjarki]

10 hours ago, underfyre said:

Alright, so I haven't run an in game tests on it yet, but the numbers say that using the improved Stalagmite instead of using the improved build up will yield a higher damage output.

 

When you consume Seismic with Stalagmite, it receives a 1:45 recharge. So while you do a ton of damage, you can't use it all that often.

[Underfyre]

8 hours ago, Hjarki said:

 

When you consume Seismic with Stalagmite, it receives a 1:45 recharge. So while you do a ton of damage, you can't use it all that often.

 

Tested. Horribly wrong. Not unexpected. If there is an internal cooldown, it isn't long enough to keep it from being available every time Shockwaves was up, or the abilities cooldown was up.

[SuperPlyx]

Using Stalagmite without Seismic on my build has a CD of roughly 4 seconds , using it consuming Seismic it is about 8 seconds CD. 

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, underfyre said:

Tested. Horribly wrong. Not unexpected. If there is an internal cooldown, it isn't long enough to keep it from being available every time Shockwaves was up, or the abilities cooldown was up.

I tested this right before I wrote it (which is why I was able to attach such a specific time). I'm not sure why you're seeing different results, but every time I've used Stalagmites while Shockwaves was up I get an atrociously long recharge attached to it.

Here it is again, before and after:

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Hjarki

[Underfyre]

So with my characters current slotting, it has 68.9% enhanced recharge, and between 135% and 205% global recharge, depending on where Ageless is in its cycle. We'll call that 170%.

 

So assuming the character is on the ground, there's also a (1 / (68.9% + 170%)) recharge deducted from the ability with each ability used. 0.42 seconds.

 

Enhanced recharge is now 5.9s, and at minimum I've had to use 5 abilities before Shockwaves activates. That's 5 * 0.42 = 2.09s. Now the cooldown is 3.8s. You won't be using 5 abilities in 3.8s. So as I said, Stalagmites will be up by the time Shockwaves is activated.

 

Anyway, I also decided to observe the cooldowns in game since nobody seems to just trust math around here. Casting Stalagmites shortly after Ageless, so we're at 205% recharge, it was at 5.5s according to the in game timer. After 13.5s, Shockwaves finally popped, 7 abilities later. Ageless cooldown is now at 1:31, so we're no longer under that first 10s boost and down 40%, which means 165% recharge. Recharge after using the boosted Stalagmites? 5.4s according to the timer in game. After that I took a few hits from the Pylon so I had to blow a few cooldowns healing back up, took 28.5s to get Shockwaves back up. Now under the last 30 seconds of Ageless, 145% recharge. Cooldown after this improved Stalagmite was 5.7s.

 

Knowing that you guys are never satisfied, I also logged times with nothing but a base of 35% global recharge and the 68.9% enhanced recharge. Recharge is now 9.80s. Grounded bonus is 0.96s. Observed in game for a regular Stalagmites and Improved Stalagmites were both 9.7s.

 

All of these are just what the in game timers think the cooldown is because it doesn't really track the cooldown bumps from being grounded. I see no evidence that Improved Stalagmites has a longer cooldown. Not observed, not in the 3 month old City of Data pull.

[Hjarki]

10 minutes ago, underfyre said:

All of these are just what the in game timers think the cooldown is because it doesn't really track the cooldown bumps from being grounded. I see no evidence that Improved Stalagmites has a longer cooldown. Not observed, not in the 3 month old City of Data pull.

Again, I'm not sure why you're seeing something different, but I posted cropped (for space) screenshots showing Stalagmites before activation with Shockwaves and immediately afterwards. This was just running around in Perez Park attacking enemies until Shockwaves occurred and then using Stalagmites. None of the powers were slotted and the only other powers running were a few defensive toggles. There were no enemy effects that would explain the long recharge and this occurs in easily repeatable fashion.

[Underfyre]

This is from the first cast:

 

 

Circled is the exact frame that the cooldown is engaged, arrow pointing to its position in the video clip. 9.7s

 

 

This is the exact frame that Shockwaves engages. First arrow is pointing where Stalagmites was first used, second arrow is Shockwaves. Circled in the top left is Improved Stalagmites available.

 

 

Finally we have Improved Stalagmites being used. Arrow is the exact frame the cooldown is engaged. Still 9.6s.

[Hjarki]

36 minutes ago, underfyre said:

Finally we have Improved Stalagmites being used. Arrow is the exact frame the cooldown is engaged. Still 9.6s.

This still doesn't explain why you and I are seeing different effects.

[Underfyre]

4 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

This still doesn't explain why you and I are seeing different effects.

 

My examples have barred all other variables, implying that your results have other variables at play. Remove those variables and let's see the results?

Edited November 14, 2021 by underfyre

[Underfyre]

Alright, I removed all recharge, global and enhanced.

 

 

First cast, 19s recharge.

 

 

Second cast as Improved, still 19s.

 

[Hjarki]

10 minutes ago, underfyre said:

My examples have barred all other variables, implying that your results have other variables at play. Remove those variables and let's see the results?

What 'variables' are you talking about? What I posted before doesn't have any recharge modifications (none of the powers are slotted). Moreover, it works the same way even if fully slotted.

[Underfyre]

Just now, Hjarki said:

What 'variables' are you talking about? What I posted before doesn't have any recharge modifications (none of the powers are slotted). Moreover, it works the same way even if fully slotted.

 

Well how about this, what AT are you playing? Mine is a Corruptor.