ice/stone -- what do you think?

[cohRock]

I just made an ice/stone brute.  He picked up Ice Patch at 8, and somewhere in the teens he'll pick up Mud Pots.  They seem like they'll work together very well in mitigating melee damage:

* Ice Patch: slow, knockdown (click power, but essentially perma)

* Mud Pots: slow, immobilize, minor damage over time

Fury seems to be helping a lot already with this essentially unslotted guy.  Will it buff a toggle PBAoE like Mud Pots?  Frozen Fists and Build Up both seem skippable,  maybe eve Frozen Aura, with Mud Pots immediately undoing its sleep affect.

 

He has already taken Combat Jumping and eventually will take Super Jump as well as Maneuvers and Tactics.  What other pool powers would fit well?  I'm thinking Combat Teleport for those hopefully rare times he'll be in Granite, and Teleport Target because the pool will be open anyway, and it is just so generally useful.  What pool powers would you consider?

 

For the Epic set, he'll likely take the one with Physical Perfection.  I'm thinking its extra recovery will be welcome, along with its prerequisite power granting 5% bonus to max endurance.

 

Any feedback will be welcome.

Edited December 9, 2021 by cohRock

[Parabola]

I'm a great believer in slow powers. They provide more mitigation than is commonly recognised as they mess with the enemy ai. Mud pots and ice patch should work very well together on anything close to you. I love the ice manipulation blaster secondary as it has exactly the same combination of slow and ice patch but of course that doesn't have the rest of the armour set to back it up.

 

Yes, fury does buff damage auras. Frozen fists is skippable but greater ice sword isn't the best dpa attack in the world so you need a plan for what your single target chain is going to look like. I tend to not want to wait for epic attacks so I generally take gis and grit my teeth in the hope it'll get buffed one day. Build up is probably optional but even on a brute it provides a noticeable damage spike, particularly when slotted with the guassian's proc. I really wouldn't skip frozen aura, ignore the sleep, it's a mini foot stomp.

 

Pool powers are entirely up to you. I would tend to go the fighting pool route rather than leadership, stone armour benefits from both the s/l res and the defence. I always take hasten too but that again is dealer's choice. For the epic I nearly always take physical perfection too. The end management is useful and focused accuracy is great for those irritating end game enemies that love to debuff tohit and perception.

 

This sounds like a good combo, I could be tempted to roll one myself.

[Hjarki]

Thoughts:

• Physical perfection is a very minor recovery buff that really won't make much of a difference. You'll almost certainly need to deal with your endurance woes with Incarnate powers regardless. The norm would be going for Gloom to improve the ST rotation.
• Ice Melee has an almost unlimited demand for recharge, meaning that almost any 'optimal' dps build will include Hasten and have significant endurance problems.
• Ice Patch is likely to be superfluous. Mobs don't normally run away from taunt auras and Stone is already a comprehensive armor set. Since it's unslottable, I normally don't take Ice Patch except to deal with a defense debuff hole in secondary.
• If you already have Teleport, taking Super Jump isn't of all that much use. Teleport is a far more universal travel power and Combat Teleport/Sprint can get you around missions. Fold Space is also a great way to gather mobs without the inconvenience of having to chase them down.

Overall, I don't think Ice/Stone has particularly good synergy. From the standpoint of pure game mechanics (as opposed to theme), it's not a combination I'd choose.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

Ice Patch is likely to be superfluous. Mobs don't normally run away from taunt auras and Stone is already a comprehensive armor set. Since it's unslottable, I normally don't take Ice Patch except to deal with a defense debuff hole in secondary.

I would use it for the rest of the team. Also, if you really want to drop into any map on whatever diff setting while solo, more mitigation is always welcome. 

[cohRock]

@Hjarki, Thanks for the feedback.  So far he seems pretty effective (up to level 23).  I'll keep in mind your hesitations, though.

 

Regarding endurance management, I plan on giving him the Numina and Miracle procs, the Atlas Medallion, and various and sundry other recovery bonuses from sets.  This strategy has worked out on a Super Reflexes with 7 toggles (including Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, and Tactics).  It's also worked on a Stone Tank also with leadership powers, Mudpots, and Irradiated Ground.  These guys have Physical Perfection also.

 

He should be able to mitigate recharge issues taking advantage of set recharge bonuses, as well as several powers slotted with the Luck of the Gambler recharge proc.

 

I don't view Ice Patch so much as a "keep them near me" power as it is a damage reduction power.  Melee foes will hit me (and allies) less often while bouncing and slowed.  Admittedly it has another problem on large teams -- by the time you get it up and take a swing, most the foes are already defeated or knocked away.  But for solo and small teams, I expect it to be quite effective.

 

With the recent change to Super Jump, allowing several follow-up jumps during initial jump (without landing), its utility as a general travel power has significantly increased.  It is even useful for getting around the Shadow Shards now, though you'll need to land once on the way to the zone's central "palace".  Of more importance to me is actually Combat Jumping, allowing me to hop floors during missions, as well as the ongoing aid to jump control and its minor global defense.  I've tried Fold Space on other characters, but it seemed to have limited functionality.  As far as I saw, it was only teleporting even-level minions and below.  Foes of higher rank and level were not being ported, IIRC.  It makes sense that the devs didn't want to make it as useful as Wormhole, though.

All in all, I'm not aiming for this guy to be a min-maxed AE farmer, able to efficiently solo +4*8 missions.  But as a character who can add a lot to almost any team, I'm expecting him to be quite capable.

[Without_Pause]

10 minutes ago, cohRock said:

Admittedly it has another problem on large teams -- by the time you get it up and take a swing, most the foes are already defeated or knocked away.

If mobs are being defeated that quickly, a lot of things aren't needed.

[Onlyasandwich]

I have a stone/ice tanker that I quite enjoy. Ice patch doesn't get used often, but is really nice when exemplared. Sometimes it's useful for breathing room in higher content. I find it worth the pick in any case, especially given that it requires minimal slotting.

 

The single target chain is a bit of trouble, as many have pointed out. I do supplement mine with an epic attack. Tankers are of course obligated to take frozen fists, so that gives me a usable filler that carries at lower level play too. GiS is indeed poopy. However, the excellence of freezing touch makes up for many of these woes!

 

Frost breath actually has not terrible dpa for a cone, so is not the worst filler for gaps in the chain. The aoe potential is much less on a brute though.

 

Keep in mind you can now drop a perf shifter proc in one of the stone armors. These add up really nicely across the build, and should go a long way to addressing endurance trouble. Buffed stone armor is fairly end friendly.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Outrider_01]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:43 PM, cohRock said:

Fury seems to be helping a lot already

Fury boosts origin attack power, can 1 hit clear contaminated for the badge in Outbreak in under 5 mins. Every other AT is a struggle.

[Meknomancer]

Don't worry about frozen aura stuff getting woken by mud pots, you dont want them sleeping anyway if you want to keep fury high. Treat frozen aura as a footstomp its great for wiping mobs out fast.

[Sovera]

Ice feels a bit too defensive for an armor that is already pretty tough to begin with. It pairs well with Fire Armor that is squishy while Fire Armor boosts Ice Melee. Not gonna say Ice Melee is bad even without Ice Patch though, and some times it's better to have Ice Patch than to faceplant as the Tanker's Shepherd challenge showed.

 

I'm currently testing an Elec/Stone though it doesn't have any special synergy. Elec does have that minor endurance gain which helps a bit with Stone Armor's costs and Stone Armor has recharge which helps tighten the recharge to loop Induction, Charged Brawl, Havok Punch, Charged Brawl, as well as Brimstone to help Elec's anemic ST damage.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sovera

[Panache]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:58 PM, Meknomancer said:

Don't worry about frozen aura stuff getting woken by mud pots, you dont want them sleeping anyway if you want to keep fury high. Treat frozen aura as a footstomp its great for wiping mobs out fast.

This. 

[Erratic1]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:54 PM, Sovera said:

I'm currently testing an Elec/Stone though it doesn't have any special synergy. Elec does have that minor endurance gain which helps a bit with Stone Armor's costs and Stone Armor has recharge which helps tighten the recharge to loop Induction, Charged Brawl, Havok Punch, Charged Brawl, as well as Brimstone to help Elec's anemic ST damage.

 

 Only at level 31 but Elec/Stone has been a surprisingly enjoyable combo for not having an obvious synergy baked in.