subbacultchas Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I'm currently working on a Rad Melee/Energy Aura brute. I've got the build made and I typically don't use Proton Sweep or Devastating Blow much. I've got Cross Punch already, and will be using one of those as a mule/maybe fire off sometimes power. Whichever one I take will be using the same 5 piece set, so that's not a consideration. So for those out there that have played Rad, which of the two attacks do you get more mileage out of, Proton Sweep or Devastating Blow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obsinious Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, subbacultchas said: I'm currently working on a Rad Melee/Energy Aura brute. I've got the build made and I typically don't use Proton Sweep or Devastating Blow much. I've got Cross Punch already, and will be using one of those as a mule/maybe fire off sometimes power. Whichever one I take will be using the same 5 piece set, so that's not a consideration. So for those out there that have played Rad, which of the two attacks do you get more mileage out of, Proton Sweep or Devastating Blow? Dev Blow by a mile. The animation is long af, but it hits hard enough to be worth using. It has the highest damage per animation in the set, skipping it is always a dps loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Ditch Proton Sweep. You already have Irradiated Ground which will tidy you over until Atom Smasher. As much as we all shit on Devastating Blow the single target becomes mediocre trying not to use it. - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimKensai Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 As someone who's taken rad melee to 50 4 times, proton sweep is the weakest link. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erratic1 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Proton Sweep is just plain not worth having. Replace it with Cross Punch. Devastating Blow is disappointingly slow but some stick by it. It does hit hard and is a near guarantee for applying the Contaminated status to a target, however I found Radiation Siphon performed only a little less reliably and with sufficient +Recharge you could apply Contaminated status with it and have it recharge to consume it for the healing/damage splash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbacultchas Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Thanks, yall are completely right. And I looked at the build and looks like I'll need it anyways. Usually I have Gloom or similar filler from Epics, but taking the Teleport pool for Fold Space on this one, so I could use the extra attack at times. I"m iffy on how much I'll like Fold Space end game, since it sometimes lines them up oddly. But if I end up redoing it later I can revisit this. Edited January 7, 2022 by subbacultchas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 That said my math may be dodgy (I did it on a Tanker build) but using the T1 Contaminated Strike seems to only be a 9% damage loss compared to using Devastating Blow. A full rotation with the T9 takes 8.7 seconds. Devastating, Smash, Siphon, Smash. Loop. A full rotation with the T1 takes 6.2 seconds. Siphon, Strike, Smash, Strike. So I can squeeze another Siphon and be at 8.6 seconds for a in-the-time-that-it-takes-to-do-a-rotation-with-Devastating. First rotation does 1379 damage. Second rotation does 878, but with a second Siphon added in the damage is elevated to 1264. Am I mathing wrong? - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbacultchas Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Man I'm bad with attack chains and the math on them, so I'm just flat out no help there. But if you are correct then its less than 100 damage there. But where would you fit in the Siphon exactly, if you put it in at the end then it would mess the rotation wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Think it might be better to calc the total base damage for the two chains. From CoD setting AT to None to simplify things: DBlow does 3.08 dam over 2.904 sec RSmash does 1.48 dam over 1.716 sec RSiphon 1.96 dam over 2.376 sec CStrike does .84 dam over 1.056 sec Chain 1: 8 dam over 8.712 secs or .918 dam/sec Chain 2: 5.12 dam over 6.204 secs or .825 dam/sec 1st chain is better. If we go ahead and add back in the brute melee damage modifier of 41.7077 at lvl 50, we get 38.288 dam/sec vs 34.409 dam/sec, soooo 10% better? Edit: So, no, looks like Sovera's math is right. I'd prefer the chain that's doing base 10% better. Edited January 8, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 13 hours ago, subbacultchas said: Man I'm bad with attack chains and the math on them, so I'm just flat out no help there. But if you are correct then its less than 100 damage there. But where would you fit in the Siphon exactly, if you put it in at the end then it would mess the rotation wouldn't it? Re-read. It is Siphon, Strike, Smash, Strike. When the loop starts again it goes Siphon which is the second Siphon I speak of. 9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Edit: So, no, looks like Sovera's math is right. I'd prefer the chain that's doing base 10% better. The thing is that we all loathe Devastating's animation so a 9-10% price can be paid to avoid it. Not on a Srapper I would say. A crit with Devastating would mess the gain loss ratio. 2 - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbacultchas Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 I gotcha now, I thought you meant in terms of a continuous rotation. And it was throwing me off that it would end and start with siphon strike. I think youre right and the 10% is totally worth it, I've picked up Devastating and been using it a bit. My recharge at 30s isn't quite where it needs to be but I actually prefer the rotation with Devastating compared to the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Sovera said: The thing is that we all loathe Devastating's animation so a 9-10% price can be paid to avoid it. I hear ya. I am going to have to respec the newish inv/nrg tank. I dumped ET and TF to completely avoid corpse blasting and crank up punchvoke but his ST damage is so ridiculously bad with just BS, Bar, EP, repeat that it's unplayable solo. For me, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbacultchas Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 If it gets to the point it annoys the hell out of me, and it might, good to know there is an alternative of switching it out for Contaminated Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erratic1 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Waitaminute...you did NOT take Contaminated Strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 50 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I hear ya. I am going to have to respec the newish inv/nrg tank. I dumped ET and TF to completely avoid corpse blasting and crank up punchvoke but his ST damage is so ridiculously bad with just BS, Bar, EP, repeat that it's unplayable solo. For me, at least. I tried that doubling down on quadruple procs to avoid ET and TF but yeah, no go. We talked about this though, use EP and BS more instead of TF unless it's a target at full life or a boss. 2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said: Waitaminute...you did NOT take Contaminated Strike? We're not in the Tanker forums 😜 n - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbacultchas Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, Erratic1 said: Waitaminute...you did NOT take Contaminated Strike? Don't know if this is for Sovera or me lol. But yeah I have it, just may not be used in the first chain he posted. So kinda sitting and muling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I hear ya. I am going to have to respec the newish inv/nrg tank. I dumped ET and TF to completely avoid corpse blasting and crank up punchvoke but his ST damage is so ridiculously bad with just BS, Bar, EP, repeat that it's unplayable solo. For me, at least. Hey @Sovera Turns out I won't be respecing after all. Tanked an ITF last night for some of my SG mates and really enjoyed it. Felt like all that extra time spent smacking things around with BS, Bar and EP went a long way to having an absolute lockdown on aggro while also never being locked into the long animations meant I could just bounce all around the battlefield like a cracked up monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Just now, Bill Z Bubba said: Hey @Sovera Turns out I won't be respecing after all. Tanked an ITF last night for some of my SG mates and really enjoyed it. Felt like all that extra time spent smacking things around with BS, Bar and EP went a long way to having an absolute lockdown on aggro while also never being locked into the long animations meant I could just bounce all around the battlefield like a cracked up monkey. As long as you're having fun. But if you're not using ET and TF then why even bother with EM? Go Rad Melee and use the Contaminated Strike rotation and you get FF procs from Radioactive Smash, a heal, and the passive damage (with team wide buffing from -res procs) from IG. 1 - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sovera said: As long as you're having fun. But if you're not using ET and TF then why even bother with EM? Go Rad Melee and use the Contaminated Strike rotation and you get FF procs from Radioactive Smash, a heal, and the passive damage (with team wide buffing from -res procs) from IG. Cuz barrage. Honestly, if I could, I'd love to have a character that used nothing but Nrg-Barrage, Fire-Flares, Claws-Slash, Dark-NightFall, repeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovera Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 7:50 PM, Sovera said: That said my math may be dodgy (I did it on a Tanker build) but using the T1 Contaminated Strike seems to only be a 9% damage loss compared to using Devastating Blow. A full rotation with the T9 takes 8.7 seconds. Devastating, Smash, Siphon, Smash. Loop. A full rotation with the T1 takes 6.2 seconds. Siphon, Strike, Smash, Strike. So I can squeeze another Siphon and be at 8.6 seconds for a in-the-time-that-it-takes-to-do-a-rotation-with-Devastating. First rotation does 1379 damage. Second rotation does 878, but with a second Siphon added in the damage is elevated to 1264. Am I mathing wrong? Re-doing the math with a different rotation: - Devastating Blow (2.9 and 781 damage), Radioactive Smash (1.7 and 332 damage), Radiation Siphon (2.4 and 476 damage), Radioactive Smash (1.7 and 332 damage) =8.7 seconds and 1885 damage. - Radiation Siphon (2.4 seconds and 494 damage), Radioactive Smash (1.7 and 330 damage), Contaminated Strike (1.05 and 175 damage). This leaves a 0.08 second gap before Radiation Siphon is up again. So the rotation takes 5.15 seconds to do for 999 damage. This leaves enough time to add another Siphon (5.15 + 2.4 = 7.55) and another Radioactive Smash (7.55 + 1.7 = 9.25). This is cheating because it passes the rotation of Devastating Blow by half a second so it can be quibbled but it's a simple rotation. Which means Radiation Siphon, Radioactive Smash, Contaminated Strike, Radiation Siphon, Radioactive Smash, is half a second longer than the time it would take to do a Devastating Blow rotation. Which amounts to 1824 damage... which makes a 3% damage loss and no 2.9 animation times in the rotation. It makes for friendlier leveling and exemplaring as well. Caveats: - The damage will be slightly different from build to build since a proc more or less will slightly alter the numbers. I'm comparing two builds instead of just swapping the slotting since Unrelenting Fury will go well in Contaminated Strike. - Enough recharge is needed to eschew a second Contaminated Strike which would bring the damage down. This is the 'disgusting' Rad/Stone build I'm messing with. For leveling this means Siphon, Strike, Smash, Strike. 1 - Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things. - Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework. - Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_General Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Everyone ignores DB in favor of AS because DB is slow, but I think AS animates a bit slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erratic1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Marshal_General said: Everyone ignores DB in favor of AS because DB is slow, but I think AS animates a bit slower. It is but it also hits an area versus only one target for DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Z Bubba Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, Marshal_General said: Everyone ignores DB in favor of AS because DB is slow, but I think AS animates a bit slower. AS is AoE. DB is ST. As for actual times, AS animation 2.933 with arcanacast time of 3.168 DB animation 2.667 with arcanacast time of 2.904. So yea, it is slower but can hit 10X the number of enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Without_Pause Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) On a Brute, I only skip the T1 in terms of a non-farming build. Edited January 19, 2022 by Without_Pause Top 10 Most Fun 50s. 1. Without Mercy: Claws/ea Scrapper. 2. Outsmart: Fort 3. Sneakers: Stj/ea Stalker. 4. Emma Strange: Ill/dark Controller. 5. Project Next: Ice/stone Brute. 6. Waterpark: Water/temp Blaster. 6. Mighty Matt: Rad/bio Brute. 7. Without Hesitation: Claws/sr Scrapper. 8. Within Reach: Axe/stone Brute. 9. Without Pause: Claws/wp Brute. 10. Chasing Fireworks: Fire/time Controller. "Downtime is for mortals. Debt is temporary. Fame is forever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahabina Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 On 1/9/2022 at 8:16 AM, Sovera said: As long as you're having fun. But if you're not using ET and TF then why even bother with EM? Go Rad Melee and use the Contaminated Strike rotation and you get FF procs from Radioactive Smash, a heal, and the passive damage (with team wide buffing from -res procs) from IG. I made a RM/EA brute, while she seems to shine in most areas, she seems to get critted easier them my other EA brute (BS/EA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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