Give all Tanker Primaries Knockback Resistance

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, th0ughtGun said:

Dark gets a damage aura and oppressive gloom and cloak of fear (and endurance issues 😂 lol)

 

But, seriously I think oppressive gloom is an amazing power, it’s super effective a locking down minions / leuts and thus decreasing incoming damage.  

 

Is Soul Transfer as good a nuke as ROTP though?  I don't think so.  

[Marbing]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

 

Is Soul Transfer as good a nuke as ROTP though?  I don't think so.  

No it isn’t, it is solid though.

[Marbing]

22 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Also, no. I don't care about farming or the AE, and the AE isn't the only place that people play Fiery Aura. But the fact remains that Fiery Aura characters out number all of the characters by 8 to 1. That tells me that Fiery Aura does not need a buff.

 

Also, you're asking for a buff based on 1 enemy in the entire game. The one enemy that Fiery Aura has an issue with. Pick another tank for that 1 enemy.

Then why bring up the number of Fire Farmers?

 

As to your other point, for me it’s not about that one enemy. It’s about: if they nerf burn… then FA has some issues. It is already one of the weaker sets with regards to survival, only made up by its offensive output. So if you knock it’s offense down a peg, those other issues become more glaring and will need a look. As I said, I’d be interested to see how they address that. Though at this point I think it’s clear you disagree and are deeply rooted in that stance so Idk why I keep responding…

 

queue meme gif response…

[Bill Z Bubba]

25 minutes ago, th0ughtGun said:

It’s about: if they nerf burn… then FA has some issues.

 

This implies that FA wasn't fine and/or balanced before IOs. If burn's ability to doubletap procs is all that gets fixed, then nothing needs to be done to bring the rest of the set up because all that's happening is bringing burn back to where it's supposed to be.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

This implies that FA wasn't fine and/or balanced before IOs. If burn's ability to doubletap procs is all that gets fixed, then nothing needs to be done to bring the rest of the set up because all that's happening is bringing burn back to where it's supposed to be.

Maybe in a vacuum but a whole lot has changed besides IO’s since IO’s came out, including Fiery Aura.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, arcane said:

Maybe in a vacuum but a whole lot has changed besides IO’s since IO’s came out, including Fiery Aura.

 

With the vast majority of it just being more power creep. I see no reason for buffs as a balance for this bug fix.

[PeregrineFalcon]

42 minutes ago, th0ughtGun said:

Then why bring up the number of Fire Farmers?

I just don't believe that all characters, or even Brutes, with Fiery Aura are farmers.

 

My point is that if a set is that popular it's difficult to argue that it's vastly underpowered, especially if the issue is just about just 1 enemy who's supposed to be one of the most difficult enemies in the entire game.

Edited February 11, 2022 by PeregrineFalcon
Whoops!

[arcane]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

With the vast majority of it just being more power creep. I see no reason for buffs as a balance for this bug fix.

Maybe, I haven’t seen the effects - my info is heresay from testers. I don’t care if they buff it but i thought that was the plan. Let me see if I can find a dev source...

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Ston said:

 

I'm not sure I would be a fan of nerfing Radiation Armor as it's one of the most fun and popular sets.

 

That's not really an excuse to leave something unbalanced. What that tells me is, most don't actually care about balance and just want a simpler build for [insert set] or it's envy that another set has more special things than your preferred set.

 

1 hour ago, Ston said:

 

I would much rather have the lagging armor sets get improved to be more competitive.

 

 

Compared to the game itself, all armor is doing well and put incarnate and IOs on top of that, you can make a character with no armor nearly as sturdy as someone with armor and no IOs.

 

Players ask for buffs all the time. I think it'd be more interesting to discuss what makes a set an outlier and maybe some possible solutions.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

That's not really an excuse to leave something unbalanced. What that tells me is, most don't actually care about balance and just want a simpler build for [insert set] or it's envy that another set has more special things than your preferred set.

 

 

Compared to the game itself, all armor is doing well and put incarnate and IOs on top of that, you can make a character with no armor nearly as sturdy as someone with armor and no IOs.

 

Players ask for buffs all the time. I think it'd be more interesting to discuss what makes a set an outlier and maybe some possible solutions.

The people just want their power creep. End of story. Preferably injected directly into their veins.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Well then let me ask this:

 

Do you guys really want the devs to do a balance pass on the armor sets?

 

If they do a real balance pass Burn's interactions with damage procs will probably get nerfed into the ground. Also, Bio, and possibly Shield, will probably be nerfed as well.

[wjrasmussen]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:50 AM, Mr Pierce said:

Is there a good reason for certain power sets to not get KB resist at this stage of the game? Dark, Fire, and Electric tanks can have a mag 20 KB protection and still get knocked on their butts against some of the harder AVs in the game. I understand some of the other ATs not getting the KB resistance for these power sets, but I don't see why that is true for any tank. There doesn't seem to be any trade-off for losing this resistance, so why not give it to them? Just a thought.

I'd rather have infinite defense, resist, and hit points but that's just me.

[arcane]

35 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Well then let me ask this:

 

Do you guys really want the devs to do a balance pass on the armor sets?

 

If they do a real balance pass Burn's interactions with damage procs will probably get nerfed into the ground. Also, Bio, and possibly Shield, will probably be nerfed as well.

I would be completely fine with the minor tweaks I think they will actually make. I don’t want them to nerf anything “into the ground” overall, but I don’t think they will, because I think they understand severe power creep addiction more than anyone.

 

I don’t believe they will allow Burn’s damage to change so radically without also revamping the set and buffing other powers to compensate. Which wouldn’t be nerfing the set into the ground, just a rebalance - fine. 

 

I don’t believe they’d have anything radical in mind for the other sets that aren’t currently defined by a broken glitch. Shield - maybe they reduce the DDR potential. Bio - something similarly reasonable.

 

In other words, I trust them to nerf whatever the hell they want because I don’t believe for a second that they’ll ruin anything. The closest we got to the nerf apocalypse here in recent times was when they reduced the uptime of Rune of Protection. If that minuscule tweak is the worst they will do? Do your worst.

 

To answer your question more directly as it relates to Burn? Yes I want them to fix bugs.

Edited February 11, 2022 by arcane

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Well then let me ask this:

 

Do you guys really want the devs to do a balance pass on the armor sets?

 

If they do a real balance pass Burn's interactions with damage procs will probably get nerfed into the ground. Also, Bio, and possibly Shield, will probably be nerfed as well.

 

Well, even without damage procs firing off nearly 100%, Burn is still a nice little AoE attack.

 

As far as a balance pass on the other armor sets, I wouldn't say I *want* it, just think it'd be interesting to talk about. With a reshuffling, one could start talking about tier 9s, strengths, weaknesses and holes. Like, would you trade some of the proc uses in Burn to get innate KB protection in FA and maybe the option to use RotP while still alive? Shuffling around some of the bonuses of Bio to coincide with the adaptation toggles might be a nerf but it could also just mean you either have to stance-dance or make dedicated stance builds rather than just turning on Offense and rolling everything. I've never played Rad armor so no idea about that...

 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I don’t believe they will allow Burn’s damage to change so radically without also revamping the set and buffing other powers to compensate.

Oh I don't think they'll nerf Burn. I think they're likely to nerf the way it interacts with damage procs. Right now they fire off way more often in Burn than they do in other AoEs.

 

That's what I think will get nerfed. And, since that's obviously a bug, if that gets nerfed there won't be any compensatory buffs.

 

Also, have we forgotten that Fiery Aura is supposed to be weaker than other armor sets? That's the tradeoff for doing more damage. I know that Bio might not agree with that, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I just don't believe that all characters, or even Brutes, with Fiery Aura are farmers.

 

My point is that if a set is that popular it's difficult to argue that it's vastly underpowered, especially if the issue is just about just 1 enemy who's supposed to be one of the most difficult enemies in the entire game.

 

Regen is popular and it's argued to be underpowered by everyone.  😛

[Haijinx]

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Regen is popular and it's argued to be underpowered by everyone.  😛

 

That's why it needs to be nerfed.

 

Too many Regen farmers

[arcane]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Oh I don't think they'll nerf Burn. I think they're likely to nerf the way it interacts with damage procs. Right now they fire off way more often in Burn than they do in other AoEs.

 

That's what I think will get nerfed. And, since that's obviously a bug, if that gets nerfed there won't be any compensatory buffs.

 

Also, have we forgotten that Fiery Aura is supposed to be weaker than other armor sets? That's the tradeoff for doing more damage. I know that Bio might not agree with that, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Best I could find quickly, not official. I could’ve sworn I’ve seen Captain Powerhouse say the same though?

 

“Balance pass” accompanying Nerf-like bug fix sounds like buffs to me. But what do I know and more importantly what does @macskull know?

 

And yes Fiery Aura is supposed to be weaker defense but, if the bug fix really does obliterate Burn, it wouldn’t be much more offensive than Rad Armor at that point. But Rad Armor could easily be considered overtuned too. Who knows.

Edited February 12, 2022 by arcane

[EmperorSteele]

4 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Also, no. I don't care about farming or the AE, and the AE isn't the only place that people play Fiery Aura. But the fact remains that Fiery Aura characters out number all of the characters by 8 to 1. That tells me that Fiery Aura does not need a buff.

 

Not taking a side on whether FA needs a buff or whatever, and I generally prefer to avoid making absolute statements, but...

 

I don't think the logic here flows. Yes, fire armor brutes are practically a majority of characters. But, how often are you on a team with one or more of them (outside of farms)? Surely, if they were such great characters to play, they'd be pretty hard to avoid, right? I mean, I dunno about you, but I barely see any outside of AE or occasionally circled around Ms. Liberty leveling up.

 

And if they're not running around playing non-fire-farm content, how good can the set actually be?

[arcane]

I need to make a general content build on one of my fiery gals and take it for a spin. 6 fiery aura characters maxed out across the board and not one has ever been built for non-fire damage. Not one even has Healing Flames.

 

Will do it on Fire/Rad tank. Much prefer tanks to brutes in general play.

Edited February 12, 2022 by arcane

[Naraka]

30 minutes ago, arcane said:

 

And yes Fiery Aura is supposed to be weaker defense but, if the bug fix really does obliterate Burn, it wouldn’t be much more offensive than Rad Armor at that point. But Rad Armor could easily be considered overtuned too. Who knows.

 

What exactly is overtuned about Rad armor lol?

 

Is it the offensive potential along with its res/regen?

 

[EDIT] An Aside, I think removing the initial attack of Burn from FA while increasing the burn patch duration and adding a HoT would mesh well...maybe replacing the damage (supplement the damage loss by adding it to the DoT patch) with a KU (Backdraft!!) instead. Defensively, it'd still be weaker, offensively it's not king but functionally (sans min/maxer) it's actually just as good :]

Edited February 12, 2022 by Naraka

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

What exactly is overtuned about Rad armor lol?

 

Well, duh, it's got a T9 that doesn't suck.

 

Honestly, I've had little experience with the set. I had slapped together one and tested it in an ITF where it felt weak but looking at it now, I'd build it very differently than I normally would. Guess it's time.

[aethereal]

5 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

What exactly is overtuned about Rad armor lol?

 

Is it the offensive potential along with its res/regen?

 

Rad has high-end resistances (and one of its major holes, cold, is really easy to accidentally fix just by getting winter/purple sets for other reasons, plus a generally low number of cold-damage dealing enemies), plus really solid heals/absorbs, plus a T9 that gives you an offensive bonus instead of a useless-in-PvE godmode.

 

I'm not sure that it needs a nerf, but I think it's a really good armor set for tanks/brutes, combining highend mitigation with okayish offensive potential and hey, a little team support too.  I think people are overstating the impact of proc-bombing its clicks, and it would remain a quite good set even if you couldn't proc-bomb them.  If it had a damage aura, it would almost certainly be overtuned.

[PeregrineFalcon]

14 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

And if they're not running around playing non-fire-farm content, how good can the set actually be?

I don't pay much attention to other peoples' powersets, but I suspect that you're right.

 

And if they do nerf Burn such that three quarters of all characters on Homecoming (or whatever the number is) aren't Firey Aura Brutes, then maybe adding some Knockback protection to Firey Aura would make sense. Until then... ok so Lord Recluse is the 1 enemy in the entire game that you should pick another tank for.

 

33 minutes ago, arcane said:

“Balance pass” accompanying Nerf-like bug fix sounds like buffs to me. But what do I know and more importantly what does @macskull know?

More importantly, what does Yomo Kimyata know?

[Naraka]

24 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Well, duh, it's got a T9 that doesn't suck.

 

Honestly, I've had little experience with the set. I had slapped together one and tested it in an ITF where it felt weak but looking at it now, I'd build it very differently than I normally would. Guess it's time.

 

I didn't get far myself (I think a lvl 14 Tanker) with Rad. Nothing about it seemed to jump at me or draw me to it. Despite Invulnerability having fewer fun powers, I feel more drawn to it now (especially now that Stalkers have it) than I am Rad. Maybe eventually I'll bother trying it but it's a rung behind Stone Armor.

 

25 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

Rad has high-end resistances (and one of its major holes, cold, is really easy to accidentally fix just by getting winter/purple sets for other reasons, plus a generally low number of cold-damage dealing enemies), plus really solid heals/absorbs, plus a T9 that gives you an offensive bonus instead of a useless-in-PvE godmode.

 

I'm not sure that it needs a nerf, but I think it's a really good armor set for tanks/brutes, combining highend mitigation with okayish offensive potential and hey, a little team support too.  I think people are overstating the impact of proc-bombing its clicks, and it would remain a quite good set even if you couldn't proc-bomb them.  If it had a damage aura, it would almost certainly be overtuned.

 

I recall learning about the lesser Cold resistance but I am left wondering what enemies do cold damage.  Malta Gunslinger? Some Crey mobs? A CoT boss and the random attack from Council/5th?...I guess there are some mobs in Night Ward too...

 

If there's a proc meta for Rad, I'd know even less about that.

 

Would it be crazy if Rad specifically played with its unique mechanic for Cold AND Fire damage?  Like the more fire damage they receive, the less cold damage they take and vice versa?  At least there's more fire damage than cold and it kind of makes conceptual sense.