Mopery Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said: Nope. I don't want to see the story butchered the way it was in the Hobbit trilogy. I suppose some butchers are just better than others. Those times you saw no footprints, I had Fly toggled on.
TheOtherTed Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 Just now, Mopery said: I suppose some butchers are just better than others. I suppose some baiters are just better than others also.
Mopery Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, TheOtherTed said: Nah, just keeping you busy. I'll take a rain check. Those times you saw no footprints, I had Fly toggled on.
TheOtherTed Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 50 minutes ago, Mopery said: I'll take a rain check. Promise?
Hyperstrike Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Mopery said: Already seen the whole series already? Nice! Good job! I'm saying that the samples I'm seeing RIGHT NOW are cause for my concern. If you're fine with that, again, no right, no wrong, just how I feel about it. You being a prick about it accomplishes nothing. 2 If you want to be godlike, pick anything. If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK!
Mopery Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said: That's not it and you know it. I am a Certified Master Psychic by my peers. Those times you saw no footprints, I had Fly toggled on.
Lead Game Master GM Impervium Posted February 17, 2022 Lead Game Master Posted February 17, 2022 Okay folks, let's calm it down and be nice! It's okay for other people to have an opinion on things. GM ImperviumHomecoming FAQ; Need a hand? File a Support Ticket! Want to lend a hand? Apply to be a GM!
TheOtherTed Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 8:41 AM, ShardWarrior said: I do not think Galadriel was ever Galadriel Warrior Princess I can't find my copy of the Silmarillion, but from what I recall, she fought in defense of her relatives against Feanor at the Kinslaying of Alqualonde. Also, when she finally arrived in Middle-Earth, her group was immediately attacked by Morgoth (IIRC). Whether that means she personally fought in that battle, I have no idea. Before all that, Feanor's words inspired in her the desire to claim a realm of her own in Middle-Earth. So, all in all, I always envisioned her as being headstrong in her "youth" and more than capable of wielding a sword if it came down to it. 6000+ years do have a way of mellowing one, however, so by the time we see her in LOTR, she seems to have taken a more behind-the-scenes role in world affairs. Also, I put Mopery on ignore, and I apologize to everyone for my earlier dance with him/her/it earlier.
Mopery Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 The Noldor were tricked into slaying their kin the Teleri by Feanor, don't remember if Galadriel took part in it or not but I doubt she would have openly opposed Feanor. Also, I put TheOtherTed on ignore, and I apologize to everyone for my earlier dance with him/her/it earlier. Those times you saw no footprints, I had Fly toggled on.
ShardWarrior Posted February 17, 2022 Author Posted February 17, 2022 3 hours ago, TheOtherTed said: I can't find my copy of the Silmarillion, but from what I recall, she fought in defense of her relatives against Feanor at the Kinslaying of Alqualonde. Also, when she finally arrived in Middle-Earth, her group was immediately attacked by Morgoth (IIRC). Whether that means she personally fought in that battle, I have no idea. Before all that, Feanor's words inspired in her the desire to claim a realm of her own in Middle-Earth. So, all in all, I always envisioned her as being headstrong in her "youth" and more than capable of wielding a sword if it came down to it. 6000+ years do have a way of mellowing one, however, so by the time we see her in LOTR, she seems to have taken a more behind-the-scenes role in world affairs. I fully admit I could be wrong as I have not read the Simarillion in quite some time either. However, from what I do remember Galadriel was never a decked out in full armor with a broadsword type warrior.
Mopery Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said: Essentially yes. People will have differing opinions on what are or are not welcome or necessary changes to the source material. That is a healthy thing and there is nothing wrong with having opinions on the matter. While I would not categorize all of the changes in the Jackson LoTR films as "butchering", I do think some were absolutely dreadful. Having the Elves show up at Helm's Deep and the army of the dead at Pelennor fields come to mind as some of the worst changes. Thankfully the whole Arwen Warrior Princess at Helms Deep never made it to screen. With that said, as I mentioned earlier, I personally find there is a difference between trying to be faithful to the source material while translating it to film whereas making changes for the sake of political correctness is another. The motivations are entirely different. Having read the responses to fans the Amazon LoTR: TRoP crew have made, essentially accusing them of being racists and misogynists, it leads me to believe they are looking to push an agenda. That is not a good place to start from in my opinion and does not look good for them. I knew a guy back in 2002 who loved Fellowship, and wanted to read the books after seeing it. I warned him not to, that it would only ruin the remaining movies for him, but he read LOTR anyway. After The Two Towers released, he was furious at all the things changed or left out of the book. So I asked him if he still liked Fellowship? Of COURSE he did! He was willing to overlook all of the major changes in the movie which brought him to the book in the first place, but after that he would be a Tolkien Scholar(kidding of course). This type of behavior is normal, I think. As for me, I'm the Devil's advocate, I like stirring up conversations from angles others might not perceive or accept. When the masses start a new wave of conformity, I'm the one making the Emperor new clothes. The only time I'm serious is when I'm asleep. 😁 Those times you saw no footprints, I had Fly toggled on.
DougGraves Posted February 17, 2022 Posted February 17, 2022 21 hours ago, Hyperstrike said: At which point, why not simply create their own thing? Why take someone else's stuff and jack it around into an unrecognizable form? Because it gets immediate attention and an audience by using a famous name. It is a business. 1
Glacier Peak Posted February 18, 2022 Posted February 18, 2022 I liked having The Hobbit read to me when I was young. I enjoyed reading the trilogy before the movies were released and I loved the three movies when they came out. The Hobbit was pretty far off from the book as I could remember, so I felt like it was a different take on the series instead of an exact copy and paste. I remember the books being so long that I'd have to put them down for a while until I had the taste for Middle Earth again. So yeah I'll watch the series since I've got Prime 😄 I lead weekly Indom Badge Runs / A newer giant monster guide by Glacier Peak / A tour of Pocket D easter eggs! / Arena All-Star Accolade Guide! Best Post Ever....
Techwright Posted February 19, 2022 Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) On 2/17/2022 at 10:18 AM, ShardWarrior said: I fully admit I could be wrong as I have not read the Simarillion in quite some time either. However, from what I do remember Galadriel was never a decked out in full armor with a broadsword type warrior. I've not read the Simarillion, but I stayed in a Holiday In...ah, have spent a good amount of time reading others' websites and watching videos documenting Tolkien's writings. I must agree, I don't recall ever hearing of Galadriel "decked out in full armor". That said, I've also never seen anything that says she can't be. While she was still in the Undying Lands, I'm told she was consider the second-most powerful elf, and what I do know of her Second Age experiences says she was the one elf that immediately cottoned to the idea that the Maia Annatar was not whom he claimed to be. Her warning was to prove vital to the elves carrying the rings of power. I think the point is that she had no need of armor and sword: she was among the most powerful spellcasters in Middle Earth. It would be reasonable, however, given all that she lived through in the First Age, that age when armies and dragons made the events of the Hobbit and LotR look like child's play, it would seem practical that she would be trained and skilled in warrior-style fighting. The possibility of the elves being overwhelmed was just too great. But she seems more content to move around every few hundred years and take over ruling seats vacated rather than train for war. Edited February 19, 2022 by Techwright
Haijinx Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 The buzz is Amazon doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion, so this series is not "actually" based on it. Which would make the whole thing a challenge I suppose.
Haijinx Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 On 2/17/2022 at 2:02 PM, DougGraves said: Because it gets immediate attention and an audience by using a famous name. It is a business. This is true. But also very sad. 1
TheOtherTed Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 9 hours ago, Haijinx said: The buzz is Amazon doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion, so this series is not "actually" based on it. Which would make the whole thing a challenge I suppose. Yep - Amazon only has the rights to material in the LotR books and the appendices therein (and maybe the Hobbit, but not sure about that one). The appendices do have a list of Numenorean kings and a quick run-down of the big events of the First and Second Age, but not really enough to "ground" any stories Amazon wants to tell. I doubt anyone will ever get rights to the Silmarillion directly. The published version is an abridged "snapshot" of Tolkien's writings on ME history, which were constantly evolving until his death. In short, there's no final work that anyone can point to and say "that's the definitive Silmarillion."
ShardWarrior Posted February 22, 2022 Author Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/18/2022 at 8:16 PM, Techwright said: I think the point is that she had no need of armor and sword: she was among the most powerful spellcasters in Middle Earth. It would be reasonable, however, given all that she lived through in the First Age, that age when armies and dragons made the events of the Hobbit and LotR look like child's play, it would seem practical that she would be trained and skilled in warrior-style fighting. Being among - if indeed not the most herself - the top spellcasters in Middle Earth, she had no real need for sword and armor. I think this has more to do with wanting equity and equality over anything that can be found in the Tolkien writings. 1
PeregrineFalcon Posted February 22, 2022 Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, DougGraves said: Gandalf fought with a sword. So? What's your point? Gandalf did fight with a sword, in the books written by J.R.R. Tolkien. Galadriel never did. Is there something wrong with people wanting stories that say "Middle Earth" on them to stick to the rules written by the actual author of the books set in Middle Earth? You know how cranky Trekkies get when something new breaks canon. Why is it a problem with Tolkien fans do the same? 1 1 Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.
ShardWarrior Posted February 22, 2022 Author Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, DougGraves said: Gandalf fought with a sword. As @PeregrineFalcon said, this was canon to the books as written by Tolkien. If you can find a reference in any published work written by Tolkien that clearly shows Galadriel in full armor wielding a sword, I would be happy to admit I am wrong. To my knowledge, this was never the case for her.
ShardWarrior Posted February 22, 2022 Author Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 6:45 AM, TheOtherTed said: In short, there's no final work that anyone can point to and say "that's the definitive Silmarillion." Would it not be the published version that his son Christopher helped put the finishing touches on?
TheOtherTed Posted February 22, 2022 Posted February 22, 2022 39 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: Would it not be the published version that his son Christopher helped put the finishing touches on? Nope. The published Silmarillion is a "cliff notes" version of his father's work on the early history of Middle-Earth, and Christopher has since published book after book that fleshed out those notes more fully. The Professor himself never finished the work to his own satisfaction.
DougGraves Posted February 22, 2022 Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said: So? What's your point? <Being among - if indeed not the most herself - the top spellcasters in Middle Earth, she had no real need for sword and armor. > Was Gandalf a weak spellcaster who needed a sword? Or is the argument that she did not need a sword so she should not wield one more to do with opposing equity and equality than anything that can be found in the Tolkien writings? Edited February 22, 2022 by DougGraves
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