Powers set that aren't particularly good if you don't proc them to the gills

[KaizenSoze]

Some sets are good with or without procs.

 

Some sets are not good, because you cannot proc them and they need it.

 

Then there are sets that are only good if you turn them into proc monsters. What are these sets?

 

I know one, defender: Dual Pistol. You can proc practically every power and need too if you want any serious performance.

[The_Warpact]

Still haven't seen the benefits, I've procced powers on the advice of others and haven't really been impressed. 

I'm apparently missing something. 

[KaizenSoze]

47 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Still haven't seen the benefits, I've procced powers on the advice of others and haven't really been impressed. 

I'm apparently missing something. 

Are you talking specifically about Dual Pistols or procs in general?

 

Because turns a 240 second pylon time into a 140 second time.

 

I have run this test myself.

Edited May 2, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[oedipus_tex]

Trick Arrow is a related case to this. It's not bad to start out, but I think goes from A-Tier to S-Tier thanks to procs. Procc'ed out Ice and Acid Arrow hit like small bombs. You can put a 15% Self Heal proc in Poison Gas Arrow, and 5% heal proc in Disruption Arrow, and on a Defender a Chance to Heal Self proc from the ATO and actually end up with some pretty good regen for a set allegedly without a heal.

 

I think Sonic Resonance is the opposite of this. Very few proc-purtinities and  it really sets the set behind IMO.

 

Kinetics is the square root twice removed and divided by zero of this. The set itself doesn't offer very good proc set ups, but it pushes them to be useful in the paired set. Time Manipulation is pretty similar.

Edited May 2, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[KaizenSoze]

44 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Are you talking specifically about Dual Pistols or procs in general?

 

Because turns a 240 second pylon time into a 140 second time.

 

I have run this test myself.

I post this going out the door.

 

To be specific. The pylon times were tests between a minimally proc'ed Night Widow and a heavily proc'ed Night Widow.

[KaizenSoze]

18 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Trick Arrow is a related case to this. It's not bad to start out, but I think goes from A-Tier to S-Tier thanks to procs. Procc'ed out Ice and Acid Arrow hit like small bombs. You can put a 15% Self Heal proc in Poison Gas Arrow, and 5% heal proc in Disruption Arrow, and on a Defender a Chance to Heal Self proc from the ATO and actually end up with some pretty good regen for a set allegedly without a heal.

 

I think Sonic Resonance is the opposite of this. Very few proc-purtinities and  it really sets the set behind IMO.

 

Kinetics is the square root twice removed and divided by zero of this. The set itself doesn't offer very good proc set ups, but it pushes them to be useful in the paired set. Time Manipulation is pretty similar.

Now, combo the two. Trick Arrow/Dual Pistols is probably the one of the most monstrous proc monsters in the current game.

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

Are you talking specifically about Dual Pistols or procs in general?

 

Because turns a 240 second pylon time into a 140 second time.

 

I have run this test myself.

Procs, I have yet to try DP. 

[oedipus_tex]

10 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Now, combo the two. Trick Arrow/Dual Pistols is probably the one of the most monstrous proc monsters in the current game.

 

 

On this I definitely agree.

 

Plant/Trick Arrow Controller is a related platter of proc realness.

Edited May 3, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

On this I definitely agree.

 

Plant/Trick Arrow Controller is a related platter of proc realness.

I was going to say, Controllers really benefit from procs so giving them TA just adds to it. Plant is also open to proc overload. My Plant/ta is only level 25 so I have a ways to go before I start to see it come together.

[Carnifax]

8 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Kinetics is the square root twice removed and divided by zero of this. The set itself doesn't offer very good proc set ups, but it pushes them to be useful in the paired set

This pretty much. Kin lets you underslot for damage and it's pretty slot light itself, so you've lots of room for procs in your other set.

 

DP/Kin is very proccable indeed (although I went more towards making it tanky). 

 

Time has two reasonably proccable powers, Time Stop and Slowed Response. But since it gives a lot of Def and Recharge it lets you proc up rather than chasing those set bonuses.

[Crysis]

There’s obviously different kinds of procs to consider.  So to me it really depends more on the AT than on the specific power I’m looking to “proc-out.”

 

If you are referencing damage procs, in general I find they simply allow low-damage classes to punch way outside their intended damage scales.  Damage procs are also great for builds that are limited on slots (VEAT’s being obvious) as it allows you to get some great damage with minimal slotting.  But on AT’s that already focus on damage output, I find damage procs to offer little vs. the set bonuses that can be had via non-proc slotting and/or limited to just a few.

 

Non-damage procs, like +RECH, +HEAL, +END, Knockback to Knockdown, -RES, Chance for Buildup…….yeah, have room for those in almost every build I make.  

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

There’s obviously different kinds of procs to consider.  So to me it really depends more on the AT than on the specific power I’m looking to “proc-out.”

 

If you are referencing damage procs, in general I find they simply allow low-damage classes to punch way outside their intended damage scales.  Damage procs are also great for builds that are limited on slots (VEAT’s being obvious) as it allows you to get some great damage with minimal slotting.  But on AT’s that already focus on damage output, I find damage procs to offer little vs. the set bonuses that can be had via non-proc slotting and/or limited to just a few.

 

Non-damage procs, like +RECH, +HEAL, +END, Knockback to Knockdown, -RES, Chance for Buildup…….yeah, have room for those in almost every build I make.  

I was talking about all procs.

 

For instance, some powers need a ton of recharge to highly effective. Storm Summoning for example w/o lot of recharge falls off pretty badly. Though it is still effective due to other powers, so I wouldn't say that it requires procs to be successful.

[Shred Monkey]

Ninja Training (Blaster Secondary) choking powder is an excellent power with procs because it can hold the ranged damage proc and hold procs.  If you're looking to proc-out a range damage power, you only have Gladiator's Javelin as an option for a damage proc other then the Apocalypse unique proc for powers that have no secondary effects.  Defense reducing powers can also get to 3 procs.

 

Not so much individual powers, but I find some sets have attack chains that proc out really well.  Martial Arts, Energy Melee, and War Mace, for example have some solid chains that can be run with low recharge levels.  Whereas the benefit to adding procs to Claws is relatively smaller. 

 

 

 

[arcane]

Every reply here is about sets that are good with procs, but not a single one appears relevant to the OP request of sets bad without procs.

[Spaghetti Betty]

In my experience, Assault Rifle is pretty middle of the road, but gets pretty crazy when you consider procs. I ended up slotting a FF proc in every power that could take it. Full Auto coming up every 10-15 seconds is nothing to sneeze at.

[Without_Pause]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

Every reply here is about sets that are good with procs, but not a single one appears relevant to the OP request of sets bad without procs.

 

Procs aren't going to save a set. Force Field is bad without procs, but I also don't think it gets better compared to other sets when adding in procs. I'm not even sure it gets equally good with them as well. Kin melee is another which isn't great, but I don't see it being massively improved with procs. Sents need an overhaul. Procs can't counter something like the cap on targets.

[Crysis]

12 hours ago, arcane said:

Every reply here is about sets that are good with procs, but not a single one appears relevant to the OP request of sets bad without procs.

Sentinels as an entire AT just barely get to decent with procs for DPS.  Some combos within the set fare better than others.  But since a Sent, unlike a Defender or Controller, -only- contributes damage to a team, then damage procs matter quite a bit for the AT as a whole.

[Shred Monkey]

12 hours ago, arcane said:

Every reply here is about sets that are good with procs, but not a single one appears relevant to the OP request of sets bad without procs.

war mace

[Bill Z Bubba]

15 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

war mace

 

Holy crap.... I have to disagree with Shred Monkey?!?!? Clobber, Jawbreaker, Shatter, repeat is glorious but needs recharge to pull it off. Couldn't do that if I had it all proced out.

[ExeErdna]

From a recent build it's Mind/Poison controller. With procs I feel like a blaster at times. I didn't go crazy as I could yet I'm so glad we got Ice Mistral now for slows since my Neurotoxic breath is fun to use. I can also say Ice Control needs them too since you can do the same double slow damage proc on Shiver which has one of the widest arcs for anything I've seen in game. You can have a lot of fun procing Flash Freeze as well since it auto hits now. Ice/TA or Poison might be something I might plan out  

[Shred Monkey]

8 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Holy crap.... I have to disagree with Shred Monkey?!?!? Clobber, Jawbreaker, Shatter, repeat is glorious but needs recharge to pull it off. Couldn't do that if I had it all proced out.

 

Holy crap... did I miss an attack chain?   I honestly never really seriously look at cycling 3 powers anymore... *looks forward to another day of spreadsheets and mid's* ...this game never stops giving, does it?

 

 

[arcane]

6 hours ago, ExeErdna said:

From a recent build it's Mind/Poison controller. With procs I feel like a blaster at times. I didn't go crazy as I could yet I'm so glad we got Ice Mistral now for slows since my Neurotoxic breath is fun to use. I can also say Ice Control needs them too since you can do the same double slow damage proc on Shiver which has one of the widest arcs for anything I've seen in game. You can have a lot of fun procing Flash Freeze as well since it auto hits now. Ice/TA or Poison might be something I might plan out  

I made a Mind/Rad recently with 6 procs in Terrify (5 dmg / 1 -res). Nowhere near a blaster ofc but that one power turns out pretty sexy.

Edited May 4, 2022 by arcane

[arcane]

11 hours ago, Crysis said:

Sentinels as an entire AT just barely get to decent with procs for DPS.  Some combos within the set fare better than others.  But since a Sent, unlike a Defender or Controller, -only- contributes damage to a team, then damage procs matter quite a bit for the AT as a whole.

Still a tiny bit exaggerated considering some of the better sentinels are still forced to do well with few procs (Fire mainly, Beam), but yes this is probably the best example. Plant Control? Trick Arrow? Pfft, top tier sets before a single proc gets involved. Sentinels on the other hand… yeah they mostly need procs. My fav damage-wise is my DP/SR/Psy with Vigor Alpha. I want to say I have 4 or 5 powers with 6 procs in that case.

Edited May 4, 2022 by arcane

[KaizenSoze]

41 minutes ago, arcane said:

Still a tiny bit exaggerated considering some of the better sentinels are still forced to do well with few procs (Fire mainly, Beam), but yes this is probably the best example. Plant Control? Trick Arrow? Pfft, top tier sets before a single proc gets involved. Sentinels on the other hand… yeah they mostly need procs. My fav damage-wise is my DP/SR/Psy with Vigor Alpha. I want to say I have 4 or 5 powers with 6 procs in that case.

Yes, I think Sentinels win the thread.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Holy crap... did I miss an attack chain?   I honestly never really seriously look at cycling 3 powers anymore... *looks forward to another day of spreadsheets and mid's* ...this game never stops giving, does it?

 

In fairness, I've no idea how good it is compared to a procmonster setup. I get @1:45 on a pylon with my mace/bio scrapper with hybrid assault in play and that's without ageless which might tighten it up some.