Star Wars: Andor on D+

[Techwright]

Just finished watching the season finale of Andor and it is AMAZING.  The story took us in directions I never expected.  If you've not seen it yet, there's a tag scene in the credits.  I'll post my thoughts later when I have a chance to re-watch it.  There's a lot of material to unpack.

[Mr. Vee]

^&()*)% didn't see the post about the tag scene til i'd already deleted.

Finale was indeed amazing.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So that was, indeed, pretty damn special. Some surprises: welcome ones, to be sure, and quite a few things left unresolved.

Spoiler

• It's evident that our Rebel characters are (mostly) smarter than the opposition. Starting with Mon, who clearly tags her driver as a spy and uses it to set up her husband. Clearing the gambling debts gives her a plausible reason for financial difficulties, which doubtless the ISB will use as leverage... and tip her to things that they're interested in? In any case, boss bitch move.
• The deaths of Kreegyr and his team are handled almost dismissively, by both sides. Such is war. Dedra was right, though: they're more useful alive.
• Nice tiny, silent scene of our two clowns swapping hats on the space bus.
• The big parade for Maarva is a great piece of cinematic tension building, like a 600-strong Western showdown (no tinkly music box).
• ...and Fi Shaw gets her St Crispin's Cassian's Day speech. Fire in every damn line right down to those bastards. Almost heard Do You Hear The People Sing over the top of it. Reinforced through the episode with the echoed voices of Nemik and Clem. And to round it off, Maarva still gets the very first blow of the Rebellion in. As a brick.
• Yay! Danger Lesbians didn't get fridged...
• ...but snitches get stitches. And/or a bomb to the face. Ouch.
• Smart characters part 2: yep, called it, Cinta tagged the ISB goon ages ago. And he gets his.
• Syril. Smarter boy than you'd think. (Bet he's still not gettin' any, though). Now she owes his smug ass one, and she's going to hate that.
• Also, can I just mention the way Denise and the camera crew played that. You're not supposed to sympathise with Imps, but that was a genuinely terrifying moment that felt like it came from a different movie - a zombie movie. (From her perspective, close enough.)
• Dedra may not deserve the blame for this one but it's still going to get held against her, because she authorised the parade.
• If I have a gripe in this episode, it's that Cassian's damsel-rescue bit is a little too pat (even if it's mirrored/lampshaded by Syril & Dedra). But it works well enough, and whatever's left of Bix is safe for Series 2.
• Mon's kid seems happy enough at getting hitched to Space Joffrey. Good riddance, frankly.
• If there's a mystery - and another piece of fine acting - it's Luthen. As someone who operates from the shadows, at arm's length, he's never really seen the kind of fight he's fomenting up close and personal. Is he having second thoughts?
• Then the final confrontation. Not sure Cass 100% knew which way that was gonna fall, but it's clear there's mutual appreciation now. 
• Still don't get to explore Luthen's motivation for his whole deal. Maybe we never will. Is it better that way?
• And of course, we wind up with the tailgag. Biggest. Damn. Chekhov's Gun. EVER.

All in all, that one slightly saggy plot device aside, the only thing I'm narked about in this episode is that we've got about two years to wait till the next one.

 

And pray to the Makers that the changeover at Disney doesn't get a big, expensive, critically acclaimed but under-audienced show redlined, or D+ doesn't bite it and get merged with some other platform I can't get at in the UK.

 

But for now... it's very rare that a series leaves you feeling anything, let alone... that damn good.

Edited November 24, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Glacier Peak]

I didn't like when the baddie kicked over the droid. Some places you just shouldn't go to in a show!

 

In all seriousness, solid season finale. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On the bonkers Star Wars Theory “no bricks or screws in space” thing that’s been roundly mocked on The Interwebs…

 

…kinda missing the point. 
 

As one of my assorted Twitter folks put it: “[A New Hope] gave us a setting that felt established and real, because people had evidently been living in it. We saw the grimy underside of SF.”

 

In Andor, we see both shine and grime, and it’s very much by design. 
 

The Empire is all surface gloss, steel, chrome, cold clinical maddening (and occasionally electrified) order, until you get down to Coruscant’s grimy underbelly. 

 

Aldhani is grass, natural stone, forests, curved valleys, plus one sodding great concrete dam dropped in the middle of it, jarring, out of place. 

 

Ferrix is brick, stone, rust, mud, old recycled tech, warm tones, down-to-earth, imperfect… human.

 

The contrast between these settings sets the tone for the people who live and work there and their characters. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Glacier Peak]

5 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

On the bonkers Star Wars Theory “no bricks or screws in space” thing that’s been roundly mocked on The Interwebs…

 

…kinda missing the point. 
 

As one of my assorted Twitter folks put it: “[A New Hope] gave us a setting that felt established and real, because people had evidently been living in it. We saw the grimy underside of SF.”

 

In Andor, we see both shine and grime, and it’s very much by design. 
 

The Empire is all surface gloss, steel, chrome, cold clinical maddening (and occasionally electrified) order, until you get down to Coruscant’s grimy underbelly. 

 

Aldhani is grass, natural stone, forests, curved valleys, plus one sodding great concrete dam dropped in the middle of it, jarring, out of place. 

 

Ferrix is brick, stone, rust, mud, old recycled tech, warm tones, down-to-earth, imperfect… human.

 

The contrast between these settings sets the tone for the people who live and work there and their characters. 

I remember thinking the same thing when they transitioned between shots of Ferrix and the Empire facilities. I did appreciate the design of the Empire's facilities though! Straight lines and smooth edges are my jam.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

I’m kind of the opposite. I grew up in a very old city (at least 450AD as a known settlement, with evidence of large scale habitation in the area well before that). I’m comfortable around old stone, trees, grass, open space: canyons of ultramodern, clinical buildings make me nervous. You build spaces for people, people will live in it. You make spaces to herd people…

[Glacier Peak]

41 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

I’m kind of the opposite. I grew up in a very old city (at least 450AD as a known settlement, with evidence of large scale habitation in the area well before that). I’m comfortable around old stone, trees, grass, open space: canyons of ultramodern, clinical buildings make me nervous. You build spaces for people, people will live in it. You make spaces to herd people…

Fair enough - the Empire easily has the silliest wardrobe in their galaxy 😆 

[twozerofoxtrot]

Spoiler

On 11/24/2022 at 5:44 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

If there's a mystery - and another piece of fine acting - it's Luthen. As someone who operates from the shadows, at arm's length, he's never really seen the kind of fight he's fomenting up close and personal. Is he having second thoughts?

 

My take on this during the viewing was that he was caught off guard by just how ready the people on Ferrix were to stand up and fight. Everyone (ISB and Rebels) were so fixated on getting Cassian that they missed the insurgency ready to burst. So when things got loud, he realized his original plan to silence Cassian had gone sideways but a whole new opportunity had opened up before his eyes.

 

The only problem was he was too close to the fire. Not much having second thoughts as much as concerns about personal security. We already saw one close call, and a riot in the streets was likely to bring a lot more attention to Ferrix. Time to fly.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:26 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

The ultra-clean, white-on-white thing representing fascism - as seen in the conf room and the lab(?) early on is also very Lucas...

It long predates Lucas in sci-fi, because big clean white rooms  are often used - or at least "were used" - to indicate some kind of futurism, think 2001 and the original Doctor Who TARDIS control room (there's probably lots of other examples if you look around too; the clip of the Hitchhiker's Guide movie on the first page has a lot f that too).

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Yep, that kinda goes right the way back.

 

Metropolis, Gold (about the last German SF movie before the Nazis banned it), the Flash Gordon serials, quite a few others. 

 

Oh, and HG Wells' Things To Come, which...

...well, better novelist than a screenwriter, let's put it that way. It's not for everyone (looking at you, JKR.)

But you might spot a few influences that little movie's had.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Tony Gilroy on pacing complaints re first 3 eps…

[Mr. Vee]

The problem is there are a ton of people who'll never see eps 8-10 because the first 2 were so boring. There are some of us who'll suffer through anything just because it's star wars (hell I watched all of Resistance. Triple speed, but still.) but most people ain't got time for that noise and will drop something if it doesn't pull them in early on. It's too bad the Lucas/Disney people didn't put their foot down, as the first 3 episodes could easily have been 1 (I'd have cut the childhood scenes altogether, but if not they could've easily peppered it through the rest like the Better Call Saul Omaha scenes).

[twozerofoxtrot]

12 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

The problem is there are a ton of people who'll never see eps 8-10 because the first 2 were so boring.

 

Good.

 

It's not for them. This one is for those of us who enjoyed movies like Patriot Games. Plenty of other stuff in the Star Wars / Disney / Streaming Media landscape for them to enjoy.

 

Move along, this is not the show you're looking for. 👋 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Halfway house on this one. Yes, Tony went very much his own way, which is good.

But mayyybbeeee a little light rework on the first three eps could have dialled up the action enough to keep more fidgety butts on seats.

It might have wound up as 13 episodes (full half-series) if I'd done it...

 

For example:

• Tie the Kenari flashbacks closer to the scenes with Maarva throughout the series. (And more Maarva generally).
• Play out on screen one or two of the dodgier things that Cassian's been up to over the years. How did he land in jail the first time round?
• More Luthen. Maybe move the Kreegyr sacrifice subplot into Eps1-3:
  • Give Dedra an early cheeky win which establishes her efficiency (but also hacks off her peers). After which she's assigned to looking into the missing parts to "keep her busy", but also from her supervisor's gut feeling she's good with detail.
  • Show Luthen as both ruthless and desperately in need of a win...
  • ...giving him motivation to hire Andor to guarantee the success of the Aldhani op...
  • ...and more tension around whether our ISB mole is loyal or not.

I don't honestly know if this would have improved the series. 

[Mr. Vee]

10 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Good.

 

It's not for them. This one is for those of us who enjoyed movies like Patriot Games. Plenty of other stuff in the Star Wars / Disney / Streaming Media landscape for them to enjoy.

 

Move along, this is not the show you're looking for. 👋 

Except from episode 4 on, it was the show they were looking for. If I weren't insane and compelled to watch everything from certain universes no matter what, I'd have tapped out early second episode. I'd also have never gotten to the good eps of Boba (i.e. the ones with Mando). There seems to be a school of streaming shows (not just Star Wars, some completely unaffiliated) where the old Aristotelian notion that the key to drama is to start slowly and build is taken as gospel. That's perfectly fine for a Greek tragedy where no one has anything better to do or for a two hour movie in the theater where the audience has already paid their money, but with a streaming series it really seems like you ought to do a little something early on to grab the audience's attention, especially since there's plenty of other stuff out there. It doesn't have to be action, just something to make the audience care about the characters and what's going on other than 'oh this is that guy from the newer movie that wasn't as horrible as eps 7-9'. The only thing particularly interesting for me from early Andor was the bit with the supervisor explaining the way the world worked to Syril. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

It reminded 

2 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

Except from episode 4 on, it was the show they were looking for.

It did remind me a little of WandaVision or Firefly in that respect. Ep 4 (well, the back half of Ep3 for Andor) is where the action kicks in, once the worldbuilding's done. But I don't mind being dropped into a chaotic situation with fully-fledged characters, and then rewinding a bit to find out how they got into that particular mess. Trust the audience to catch up.

[twozerofoxtrot]

8 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

Except from episode 4 on, it was the show they were looking for.

 

I was hooked from Ep 1 and loved it all the way through. 

 

Glad Disney made a show for me.

 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Just watched a neat little vid about some confirmed Easter Eggs from Luthen’s shop…

• Mandalorian armour
• Padme’s bronze headpiece from AOTC
• Gungan powershield
• A modified version of Starkiller’s helm from Unleashed
• Jedi Temple Guard mask
• A Sith and a Jedi Holocron
• The Sankara Stones. (Though IMHO, they belong in a museum).

Edited December 1, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Shred Monkey]

I've been binging TV shows for 3 years now...  over one thousand hours easy when I start to to add it up (400 in Ertugrul Resurrection alone).  Andor is either number 1 or number 2 (Arcane is the other) of my favorite series.  It's so smart.  It's like a masterclass of "How do you say X without saying X."  Simple scenes like when Andor returns to Ferrix in Episode 1 and talks to his mom's drone.  We learn so much about his current life situation.  He lives with his Mother, who is a good mother.  He cares about the feelings of a droid, so he's not just  a cold killer.  He's used to having to stay hidden.  He lives on this work planet, but doesn't work for a living so he must be into something shady.  He's a thinker and a stratagizer, very used to lying.  Tons of character development for Andor, and his mom, and his mom doesn't even appear in the episode.  It's brilliant.  And I feel like every scene is like this.  When I re-watched it with my son, I just felt like pausing every scene so we could talk about how amazing what just happened really was.

 

Not everything I watch has to be this Cerebral.  But this show was a real treat after being spoonfed plot lines, jokes, and agenda messages for way too long.  I hope some people at Disney and Marvel learn from this.  Because this is how good shows are done.

 

 

[DougGraves]

On 11/27/2022 at 6:06 AM, Mr. Vee said:

The problem is there are a ton of people who'll never see eps 8-10 because the first 2 were so boring. 

 

We watched the first 5 episodes and they got worse and worse.  4 and 5 were not only super boring they were also unpleasant.

 

While episodes 1-3 could have been edited to a single good episode, episodes 4 and 5 were just all bad.

[Mr. Vee]

I don't even know how to respond to not liking the show after ep 3 unless you're just not into heists. 

[Techwright]

Regarding those "boring" first few episodes:  There's a long-standing understanding of American television that says the first 6 episodes are working out the details.  The actors are new to the roles, the scripts might be a bit rough, and it at least used to be that a network ordered just the first 6 episodes to see if anyone would stick around.  If, after a forced break, you came back to episode 7, you'd find a slightly different show: the cast were now familiar with the character and had hopes of a longer paycheck.  The writers were beginning to smooth things out and take the story in interesting directions, some of which might have been considered dangerously controversial for an introductory episode of their little universe.  By 7 you were beginning to see the real show. 

 

Take the original Star Trek for example.  The first broadcast episode was "The Man Trap".  Then inexplicably in the third broadcast episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before" things are different.  Dr. McCoy, who starred in The Man Trap is conspicuously missing.  The crew is in different uniforms, ones that were not used in any other episode. We were eventually to find out those uniforms were from the first pilot which was shot down (but later revived as "The Cage"), revealing this third episode to be the actual second pilot.  Everyone, most notably CBS schedulers, were still working things out.  The schedulers had broadcast the second pilot, featuring Shatner, as the second episode, not the first.  Messy details like that in the earliest episodes might have sunk the series and a multi-billion dollar industry as a result.

 

It's why I'll give most any new episodic show 7 episodes to get their stuff in order.  If they can't do it by then, well, I feel I've given a fair chance.

 

[Mr. Vee]

That's all well and good in the 60s when there were 3 channels. T'ain't nobody (else) gots time for that nowsadays. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Somehow, the thread returned...

 

There's only a few scant clips and details about Andor S2 so far, but from the looks of things...

...the direction is still absolutely on point. Just look at the setup for this frame, dammit.

How you can see those characters relate to each other just with position, expressions and costume coding.

And, yes, wardrobe crew and location scouts are still on point as well.