What is the relationship between Rogue Isles and The US?

[UltraAlt]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:34 PM, Techwright said:

If I understand the lore correctly, the Ritki invasion reached much farther than Rhode Island.  We've got forces in the Shadow Shard, forces still fighting the Rikti, forces fighting Praetorians, and probably fighting several other groups as well.

 

"...It's the nexus of the crisis
And the origin of storms
Just the place to hopelessly
Encounter time..."

- Blue Oyster Cult "Astronomy"

[Saeletra]

Asides from the Rogue Isles being their own sovereign nation and having ties to other nations, there are a couple of other factors too.

 

The biggest one being, the Rogue Isles also has a treaty with the United States. There's a plaque in Warburg that's part of the "Arachnos Rising" history badge that mentions it.

"Warburg is a symbol of Arachnos' strength. The city is dedicated to the many faceless soldiers who have given their lives to the cause of our benevolent dictator during the Arachnos Revolution of 1964. Warburg was once protected by a ring of nuclear-tipped rockets capable of striking both North America and Europe, but those were removed under an extortive 'treaty' with Paragon City in 1982. "
 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Arachnos_Rising_Badge

 

A few other considerations for why they don't get invaded,
Aeon Corp is an international mega corp.
Arachnos has under the table deals with various villain groups (Hello Malta!),
And Arachnos has blackmail on several US politicians. (There's a wonderful story arc in St. Martial about that.)

Speaking of St. Martial, with all the casinos there, /alot/ of money flows through that Island. And as long as Recluse gets his cut, he doesn't care what a person does with it. Off book Black Ops and Money Laundering dream lands.
 

For some reason, I always thought that Arachnos and the Isles were members of the UN. But for the life of me, I can't find any references to that. Perhaps that just popped into my head because of the treaty thing referenced in the plaque and the fact that there's a very large, very  not hidden Longbow base in the middle of Nerva that Arachnos seems content to allow to continue existing.

[huang3721]

2 hours ago, Saeletra said:

. . . both North America and Europe, but those were removed under an extortive 'treaty' with Paragon City in 1982. "

^This part

 

Why did Rogue Isles make a treaty with Paragon City instead of the United States? Is Paragon City the capital of the United States? Could the city represent the US in a multinational treaty? It is weird. It is as if Rogue Isles and Paragon City are on the same level and the whole conflict is not an international affair. 
 

Thus, my assumption: The Arachnos took over a US territory.

 

If my assumption is correct, it clears up many questions.

• The conflict between Rogue Isles and the US mainland is an internal affair. The UN and NATO won't and can't intervene. 
• The US can't deploy troops against their citizen or even escalate the conflict without risking a civil war. Because whatever happened, the Arachnos are still US citizens. 

Anyway, it's been a month, but no one has come up with lore-related information. I'll just apply MST3K Mantra.

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, Saeletra said:

"Warburg is a symbol of Arachnos' strength. The city is dedicated to the many faceless soldiers who have given their lives to the cause of our benevolent dictator during the Arachnos Revolution of 1964. Warburg was once protected by a ring of nuclear-tipped rockets capable of striking both North America and Europe, but those were removed under an extortive 'treaty' with Paragon City in 1982. "

 

Okay, that's some weird writing.  Treaties are made with countries, not cities.

 

But I thank you for bringing the text to light.  It sounds like words now hold the good back, no matter how many sovereignty-violating incursions happen. 

[Crashen]

If I remember correctly, the Rogue Isles and Arachnos are actually part of the U.N. They have treaties and politics with the United States and other places, as well as economic ties. St. Martial is a huge destination spot, Aeon City and Grandville are enormous research and development centers of the world. Arachnos most likely publicly condemns supervillain attacks on the United States as rogue agents and unaffiliated terrorists. The actual Arachnos agents operating on U.S. soil are a different can of worms, but some blackmail, bribery and backroom deals probably smooth any incidents over. 

 

Beyond that, the rest of the world is pretty messed up as far as we know, post Rikti-invasion. Other countries exist and operate, but took more damage from the Rikti because they didn't have the same concentration of super-powered resistance that North America had. So whether anyone likes it or not, Arachnos and the Rogue Isles are a global superpower that everyone else puts up with, because while they might be dangerous villains, at least they are dangerous villains who can be reasoned with and can reign in the truly apocalyptic monsters. Recluse doesn't want to destroy the world, just rule it.

[TalynDerre]

The short answer is, as other people have mentioned, 'nukes.' 

 

That being said, Arachnos has openly invaded the United States - uniformed soldiers attacking civilian targets exist in Atlas and Faultline, not to mention the more undercover 'deniable' troops that you can fight in radio missions in Founders and Peregrine Island.  Faultline, in particular, does a number on my suspension of disbelief - there is NO WAY the United States would not respond to their actions in Faultline with anything less than a punitive invasion, no matter how many senators Arachnos bribes.

[EmperorSteele]

I think the world tolerates the Rouge Isles because it's a known quantity. You KNOW it's where Arachnos is, you KNOW it's where most self-proclaimed "super villains" hang their hat. You take the Isles off the board, and you suddenly lose track of 100's of the world's most dangerous people.

 

And if the logic is "nuke the isles because so many dangerous people live there", then you'd better have a few left over for Paragon City and the surrounding area! It's the focal point of all sorts of incursions, from aliens and alternate realities to ghosts and demons and fey! Assuming Paragon is unique in these regards, if i were the government,  I'd seriously consider scuttling the place (after evacuating it, of course!).

[Black Zot]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:56 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

Meanwhile, everyone still laughs at the Council as they happily mow down their amassed minions in the warehouses across the world.  😃

 

Pretty sure Council/5th Column have access to some sort of fast-growth mass-cloning tech to keep up with losses from rampaging supers.  These are theme-park Nazis; ain't nobody but the most boyscout-of-boyscout idealists using non-lethal force here.

 

Would also explain how I just beat down Archon Roget with his own thesaurus for the third time this afternoon.

[Cybersbe]

My guess is that there is a LOT of political corruption in the US and possibly even the UN. To the point where all the attacks on Paragon City are being written off because it's ONLY Paragon City being attacked. 

[biostem]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:12 AM, Black Zot said:

Pretty sure Council/5th Column have access to some sort of fast-growth mass-cloning tech to keep up with losses from rampaging supers.  These are theme-park Nazis; ain't nobody but the most boyscout-of-boyscout idealists using non-lethal force here.

 

Would also explain how I just beat down Archon Roget with his own thesaurus for the third time this afternoon.

Or they have really good lawyers and/or the Zig is made of Swiss cheese...

[Clave Dark 5]

Well we certainly know we can't trust that Robert Alderman guy...

[Black Zot]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

Or they have really good lawyers and/or the Zig is made of Swiss cheese...

 

The Zig is swiss-cheese regardless; given how much damage the interior maps show, it's impressive it still functions as a prison.

 

But I stand by my point.  You do NOT use non-lethal force on Nazis.

[Gamlain]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:25 PM, Snarky said:

Probably not.

 

You could Nuke the Rogue Isles.  yes.  Somewhat easily.  But no one in their right mind wants to light that candle.  Not even for a small tactical strike.  Not from my reading of the global military tea leaves.  Because as soon as one person does it.....someone else feels like they could just eliminate a pesky small problem.  (Won't spread, we promise!)

 

You could carpet bomb the rogue Isles with Planes, rockets and missiles.  This would do tremendous damage.  But it would not do it quick enough to forestall 1) counter attacks 2) people/resources escaping 3) the cost of this in depletion of assets will not be cheap.  The Rogue Isles will be beaten, but they will take some mean old shots while they fall

 

You could invade the Rogue Isles with overwhelming conventional forces.  Now, a significant percentage of your invading force will be turned into zombie super soldiers attacking you back, others implanted with Nictus, others possessed by Oranbegans, but sure you can invade.  This is a laughably bad idea that will get worse if not done extremely fast and extremely complete.  Like, the entire national military walking ashore in lockstep.  Because the Rogue Isles does not fight fair.  Or sanely.  Or with anything approaching an attitude of they give a crap.  That would be fun to watch.  Seriously.  

 

You could try to make a political deal with the Rogue Isles and compartmentalize their chaos while trying to profit and extract some wins, personally, professionally, and possibly nationally.  I think this is where most national leadership currently stands.  Thats a minefield of its own type.

 

But an unstoppable conventional invasion?  What do you tell the parents of the division that got gated into the shadow shard?  We'll find your boys?  How about the battalion lost at the thorn tree in nerva.  And I dont mean killed.  They went into the  tunnels and no one has seen them since.  

 Could you?

Arachnos employs psychic clairvoyants and precogs /en masse/.  And has plenty of energy platforms and SPBs who can just null a long range nuke long before it reaches him.

You could /try/ to nuke the Rogue isles. You would probably fail. And Recluse would know you did it. 

How may people does he have on his payroll who are /personally/ equivalent to a nuke and a whole lot less easy to counter?  Apparently a bunch.  They're aimed at Paragon city most of the time, but you know. Paragon has enough problems that it's counter invasion is basically. Longbow.

He can afford to turn attention to you for a while.

Mass carpet bombing?

Weeell.

Recluse has an army. An actual army. He has troops, air superiority in the isles and backs it up with super powered support and SPB level tech.

And telepaths. And seers. And massive numbers of killer robots. Arachnos drone firepower appears short ranged against hero/villian units, but against conventional forces, they probably have to the horizon laser capability. Just by virtue of actually being laser platforms.

So while all of the above applies, so does -

Send your conventional airforce to bomb the rogue isle and get shredded, because honestly Recluse appears to have the most modern military in the world that isn't Paragon city.

Send your ground forces and get mulched because a /whole lot/ of his Spider troops are wearing power armor and toting plasma cannons.

 And their Seers have told them exactly where to setup to gun you down with /no possibility/ of any return fire.

Not to mention the host of killer robots designed to take down SPBs, no matter how much the struggle at the job.  Or the Teleporting villains who will slaughter your command structure essentially at will if you make the commitment to try.

  Or the various native power groups, which make the rogue isles a fundamentally hostile population /with superpowers/, as noted above.

/Vanguard/ might be able to invade the rogue isles. Malta if it had the troops (It's a 'secreet' conspiracy, it doesn't.).

Conventional Modern day militaries?

Are dogfood within days of engaging. /days/.

If the villians are feeling particularly motivated, possibly /hours/.

And this is not a comprehensive list of bad things. I didn't mention the traitorous conspiracy to turn the invading troops against each other (Hello, telepathy), the lethal bio plagues, the..well. We could go on.

Add this to the dead certainty that world militaries are going to be literally a century recovering from the rikti war, and no, USgov is not in a position to do anything about the rogue isles now.

And by the time they might concider it - either Paragon will have done so.

Or it will be so much worse.