KB to KD toggle

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, 0th Power said:

Is there a fix regen thread too?

 

Regen was fixed a long time ago, just like my cats.

[Oklahoman]

12 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Regen was fixed a long time ago, just like my cats.

 

But, wouldn't it work better for your cats if that was a toggle?

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

 

But, wouldn't it work better for your cats if that was a toggle?

 

 

No.

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 hours ago, 0th Power said:

This again?

 

Is there a fix regen thread too?

 

Yup. Scrapper forum. Ya can't miss it.

[SwitchFade]

KB is fine as is, thinks me.

 

Thank you, no.

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Yup. Scrapper forum. Ya can't miss it.

Well, it's more of a "Nerf Defense (Because SR is Underperforming?!)*" thread now.

 

* No, you didn't read that wrong.

[thunderforce]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:05 PM, Andreah said:

Or, and this is my last suggestion, volunteer to work on the development team and offer to do all the game changes necessary to make a toggle work.

I have volunteered to do something else close to my heart; fix typos. Stony silence.

 

Do you know of anyone at all who has volunteered to join the development team and been accepted? Me neither.

 

This suggestion is less practical than "just have two builds", and that's a high bar.

 

It may be a hardy perennial but a toggle is a simple and obvious solution. It's not perfect, but neither is the status quo.

[blue4333]

Yeah I agree with adding the KB - KD toggle. I play an Energy Assault and I feel bad whenever my powers knock enemies back at a random probability.

 

Why is this considered fun when mobs are randomly knocked back out of AoE and other Melee Players? I always notice in these KB to KD threads that it's always the feelings of the KB-enthusiasts that we have to be careful about - not trying to ruin their fun. So far, the suggestions are usually optional so I don't get why the backlash.

 

I guess you could say I have internalized knock-phobia.

[Rudra]

KB to KD already exists. Use the enhancements. A toggle that gives you the advantage of the enhancement is what everyone is opposed to. That was stated in this thread.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to remove "multiple times".

[JasperStone]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

KB to KD already exists. Use the enhancements. A toggle that gives you the advantage of the enhancement is what everyone is opposed to. That was stated in this thread.

 

Saying Sudden Acceleration proc KB>KD is a false equivalence

Using the proc prevents slotting of full sets  or taking better advantage of parts of sets - disadvantage.

 

A toggle is not the way to go, Some powers are great KB, single target especially. Ki Push for example

 

Being able to choose what the power does - KB, KD, or KU would be ideal

Consider how Dual Pistols work with secondary effects. Not saying that is the route to go. But potential is there.

 

A few more set(s) that address this would be better. 

 

Additional damage for Knockback + distance  = perfection

Imagine ...

You knockback them into a wall - extra dmg. They fall to floor - extra dmg.

 

Reminder:

When people complained about the speed aspect of Speed boost, or Group flight effects, and even TP choices .... we were given Null the Gull.

It was not left to players to change aspects of their powers thru enhancements. 

 

 

[thunderforce]

38 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

Being able to choose what the power does - KB, KD, or KU would be ideal

Please let's not get into stretch goals which will never be implemented. A toggle is a simple change and makes the game worse for no-one.

[thunderforce]

5 hours ago, blue4333 said:

Why is this considered fun when mobs are randomly knocked back out of AoE and other Melee Players? I always notice in these KB to KD threads that it's always the feelings of the KB-enthusiasts that we have to be careful about - not trying to ruin their fun.

 

It's fun because mobs flying through the air, ragdolling about, and being flung off cliffs is entertaining.

 

Your second sentence doesn't make sense; join a PUG with a /energy blaster and start Power Pushing stuff about, and you'll soon find you have to be careful of the feelings of KB-haters.

 

(FTAOD don't actually do that. It's a hypothetical case to consider.)

 

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

KB to KD already exists. Use the enhancements. A toggle that gives you the advantage of the enhancement is what everyone is opposed to. That was stated in this thread.

By "everyone" you mean "some people"; indeed your reply was immediately below someone not opposed to it.

 

It has indeed been repeatedly stated in this thread. It's not clear why since of course everyone involved already knows it exists.

 

The enhancement doesn't offer an advantage to me.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, JasperStone said:

 

Saying Sudden Acceleration proc KB>KD is a false equivalence

Using the proc prevents slotting of full sets  or taking better advantage of parts of sets - disadvantage.

 

A toggle is not the way to go, Some powers are great KB, single target especially. Ki Push for example

 

Being able to choose what the power does - KB, KD, or KU would be ideal

Consider how Dual Pistols work with secondary effects. Not saying that is the route to go. But potential is there.

 

A few more set(s) that address this would be better. 

 

Additional damage for Knockback + distance  = perfection

Imagine ...

You knockback them into a wall - extra dmg. They fall to floor - extra dmg.

 

Reminder:

When people complained about the speed aspect of Speed boost, or Group flight effects, and even TP choices .... we were given Null the Gull.

It was not left to players to change aspects of their powers thru enhancements. 

 

 

Another claim that using a set is a enhancement tax. You didn't use those words, but you are saying the same things. Here's a(n admittedly snarky) thought: Use the set and not just the single enhancement. It gives bonuses too. Saying using this one enhancement from a set prevents you from getting set bonuses is a very poor argument. You're saying the set that enhancement is in doesn't give set bonuses.

 

As has been said in so many KB-KD threads I have read, the way KD changes KB powers is a huge advantage. Like the Tornado and Bonfire no longer throwing mobs away, but keeping them in its damage effect constantly falling in place. You do not get that for free.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, thunderforce said:

 

It's fun because mobs flying through the air, ragdolling about, and being flung off cliffs is entertaining.

 

Your second sentence doesn't make sense; join a PUG with a /energy blaster and start Power Pushing stuff about, and you'll soon find you have to be careful of the feelings of KB-haters.

 

(FTAOD don't actually do that. It's a hypothetical case to consider.)

 

By "everyone" you mean "some people"; indeed your reply was immediately below someone not opposed to it.

 

It has indeed been repeatedly stated in this thread. It's not clear why since of course everyone involved already knows it exists.

 

The enhancement doesn't offer an advantage to me.

By everyone, I was saying everyone opposed to this idea that I am aware of. I should have been more precise in my comment. (Even though I have been told multiple times to stop being so precise in my comments.... Just can't please everyone. Oh well.)

 

Edit: And by the way? I have been on PUGs with KB haters on an energy blast blaster. They typically don't complain because I pick an outlying target as my own and work my way in. Except for AVs where I would blast them into the nearest wall to (hopefully) bounce them in place to avoid stepping on KB hater toes. I never learned @Greycat's trick of KB'ing mobs into the tank (that we didn't have).

 

Edit again: I've also noticed KB haters seem to complain a lot less when the KB comes from say AR. They still complain depending on the knocked target, but they don't scream or whine when the AR joins. It's only kheldians and energy blast/melee that they do any real whining about. So that tells me it is less the KB and more the perception of the sets.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Rudra

[Stormwalker]

30 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Another claim that using a set is a enhancement tax. You didn't use those words, but you are saying the same things. Here's a(n admittedly snarky) thought: Use the set and not just the single enhancement. It gives bonuses too. Saying using this one enhancement from a set prevents you from getting set bonuses is a very poor argument. You're saying the set that enhancement is in doesn't give set bonuses.

 

As has been said in so many KB-KD threads I have read, the way KD changes KB powers is a huge advantage. Like the Tornado and Bonfire no longer throwing mobs away, but keeping them in its damage effect constantly falling in place. You do not get that for free.

 

In fairness to the people complaining about the KB -> KD IO being an enhancement tax, one of the two KB -> KD IO's is in a knockback set (Sudden Acceleration).  Which is to say, a set that enhances knockback.  In fact, it enhances Knockback on every piece other than the KB -> KD IO itself!  A very large portion of the set's enhancement is completely useless if you are slotting the KB -> KD piece.  So, slotting the Sudden Acceleration set is kind of a non-starter.  The truth of the matter is that Sudden Acceleration is a terrible set.

 

The other one, on the other hand, is in Overwhelming Force, which is actually a pretty good set (I use this in Explosive Blast on my energy blaster, because Explosive Blast is a terrible power without KB -> KD in it).   Unfortunately, this one is a unique, so you can only slot it once.

 

One change I would be in favor of (as opposed to the toggle idea, which I strongly oppose) is adding a Ranged Damage (or Ranged AoE Damage) set (or another Universal Damage set) with a KB -> KD IO in it.  Or, more sensibly, possibly, another Knockback set (so it can be slotted in any Knockback power) but without actual Knockback enhancement, giving it an enhancement profile similar to a damage set.  Because even for me, the enhancement tax of having to slot Sudden Acceleration KB -> KD in Nova is rather annoying.  I do it, but I don't like it.  In fact, I may submit this as a separate suggestion.

 

Even that wouldn't bother me if it weren't for the fact that Energy Blast has two powers whose knockback can't be used in a constructive fashion in a team - Explosive Blast and Nova.  Actually, this is really the thing that bugs me about the KB -> KD IO to begin with.  I feel like it's a band-aid for a few badly-designed powers in the game.

 

Nova at least makes some sense - its knockback is at least useful when soloing, as it pushes the survivors away from you so they don't gank you while you pop blues and get your toggles back up - but its KB is still detrimental in a team environment.   Explosive Blast, on the other hand, is a terribly deisgned power that is completely useless without a KB -> KD IO, and having to slot that IO in a power because the power is badly designed irks me.  It would irk me a lot less if I didn't also need a second KB -> KD IO for Nova (forcing me to use Sudden Acceleration in one power or the other) though; if I only needed to slot the Overwhelming Force one, which comes in a usable set, that would be fairly tolerable.

 

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

By everyone, I was saying everyone opposed to this idea that I am aware of. I should have been more precise in my comment. (Even though I have been told multiple times to stop being so precise in my comments.... Just can't please everyone. Oh well.)

 

Edit: And by the way? I have been on PUGs with KB haters on an energy blast blaster. They typically don't complain because I pick an outlying target as my own and work my way in. Except for AVs where I would blast them into the nearest wall to (hopefully) bounce them in place to avoid stepping on KB hater toes. I never learned @Greycat's trick of KB'ing mobs into the tank (that we didn't have).

 

Edit again: I've also noticed KB haters seem to complain a lot less when the KB comes from say AR. They still complain depending on the knocked target, but they don't scream or whine when the AR joins. It's only kheldians and energy blast/melee that they do any real whining about. So that tells me it is less the KB and more the perception of the sets.

 

You are definitely right about people screaming when an energy blaster joins the team.  I have to admit, it really ticks me off, too.  Some of us know how to use our knockback as a tool and an asset to the team rather than a detriment.  The only powers in Energy Blast in which the knockback can't be used constructively are Explosive Blast (which, as I said before, is just a terrible power if you don't slot KB -> KD in it) and Nova (and in Nova's defense, it tends defeat most of its targets anyway, though scattering the remnants - which are generally the biggest, baddest enemies in the spawn - is still not good).  Every other Energy Blast power - even Torrent - has ways to be used to help the party rather than hurt it.

 

My experience has been that if the team leader ignores the screamer and just gets things rolling, they usually shut up after the first mission when they realize the energy blaster knows what they are doing.

 

For the single target blasts, as long as the energy blaster is competent (i.e. is not targeting through the melee and KB'ing their targets, and is not knocking enemies into other spawns), the KB is not a problem.  As I tell my teams, "If I KB a single target, I am claiming that target and I will finish it, so you can safely ignore it."

 

As far as Torrent is concerned, you have two useful ways to use it.  Either 1) Hover over the targets so your knockback knocks them INTO THE GROUND instead of across the room, or 2) If you don't have Hover or there isn't room to use it, use Torrent to herd enemies on the perimeter toward the tank.  There's also a third use for Torrent - self defense - which isn't so much constructive as a matter of survival and also a case of "if the energy blaster has multiple enemies in his or her face, then either the tank has lost aggro or is over the aggro cap and things have already gone to hell in a handbasket anyway, so you aren't really making things worse."

[Rudra]

47 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

In fairness to the people complaining about the KB -> KD IO being an enhancement tax, one of the two KB -> KD IO's is in a knockback set (Sudden Acceleration).  Which is to say, a set that enhances knockback.  In fact, it enhances Knockback on every piece other than the KB -> KD IO itself!  A very large portion of the set's enhancement is completely useless if you are slotting the KB -> KD piece. 

As you said, it is a knockback set. So sure, all the non-proc enhancements have knockback. To call it useless however? 2 enhancements gives a universal 7.5% movement buff. 3 improves max endurance by 2.25%. 4 buffs all damage for the character by 2.5%. 5 improves your hit points. 6 gives a 7.5% recharge buff.

 

People screaming the proc is the only thing in the set and that they want their set bonuses from the damage sets ignore that the set bonuses from Sudden Acceleration competes well against damage sets. Take a look at Decimation. 2 enhancements gives a 1.5% energy/negative energy resist buff. 2 gives a smaller hit point buff than Sudden Acceleration, but you get it earlier as compensation. 4 gives the 2.25% max endurance buff that Sudden Acceleration gives one slot earlier. 5 gives a 6.25% recharge bonus. 6 gives a 4.5% toxic and psionic resist buff.

 

I chose Decimation because it gives most of the same set bonuses so they can be contrasted more fairly. Sudden Acceleration gives a damage buff, better recharge buff, and a better hit point buff. Decimation gives resists. Two different groupings of resists. Otherwise, it falls short of Sudden Acceleration. And on top of that? Sudden Acceleration has a damage component to 3 of its enhancements. So it is far from useless.

 

Edit: And it says Suden Acceleration gives an equal damage buff from its single enhancements as Decimation gives with its damage buffs from its single enhancements. A triple effect enhancement with damage as one of the components gives a 19.3% buff for both sets.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add missing period.

[Stormwalker]

10 minutes ago, Rudra said:

As you said, it is a knockback set. So sure, all the non-proc enhancements have knockback. To call it useless however? 2 enhancements gives a universal 7.5% movement buff. 3 improves max endurance by 2.25%. 4 buffs all damage for the character by 2.5%. 5 improves your hit points. 6 gives a 7.5% recharge buff.

 

People screaming the proc is the only thing in the set and that they want their set bonuses from the damage sets ignore that the set bonuses from Sudden Acceleration competes well against damage sets. Take a look at Decimation. 2 enhancements gives a 1.5% energy/negative energy resist buff. 2 gives a smaller hit point buff than Sudden Acceleration, but you get it earlier as compensation. 4 gives the 2.25% max endurance buff that Sudden Acceleration gives one slot earlier. 5 gives a 6.25% recharge bonus. 6 gives a 4.5% toxic and psionic resist buff.

 

I chose Decimation because it gives most of the same set bonuses so they can be contrasted more fairly. Sudden Acceleration gives a damage buff, better recharge buff, and a better hit point buff. Decimation gives resists. Two different groupings of resists. Otherwise, it falls short of Sudden Acceleration. And on top of that? Sudden Acceleration has a damage component to 3 of its enhancements. So it is far from useless.

 

Edit: And it says Suden Acceleration gives an equal damage buff from its single enhancements as Decimation gives with its damage buffs from its single enhancements. A triple effect enhancement with damage as one of the components gives a 19.3% buff for both sets.

 

It's still a poor replacement for a damage set.

 

Take, for example, my current slotting in Nova, which is 5 Scirocco's Dervish and 1 Sudden Acceleration KB -> KD.

 

Scirocco's Dervish gives:

• Two accuracy halves (26.5% x 2 = 53%) and an accuracy third (21.2%) = 74.2% accuracy (73.78% with ED)
• Three damage halves (26.5% x 3 = 79.5%) and a damage third (21.2%) = 100.7% damage (95.11% with ED)
• An endurance half (26.5%) and an endurance third (21.2%) = 47.7% endurance reduction (ED doesn't apply)
• Two recharge halves (26.5% x 2 = 53%) = 53% recharge reduction (ED doesn't apply)

Sudden Acceleration gives:

• Two Knockback halves and three Knockback thirds (all useless if you slot the KB -> KD)
• Three damage thirds (21.2% x 3 = 63.6%) = 63.6% damage (ED doesn't apply)
• One accuracy half (26.5%) and one accuracy third (21.2%) = 47.7% accuracy (ED doesn't apply)
• One endurance third (21.2%) = 21.2% endurance reduction (ED doesn't apply)
• One recharge half (26.5%) and one recharge third (21.2%) = 47.7% recharge reduction (ED doesn't apply)

This means that slotting Sudden Acceleration instead of a damage set costs us:

• 37.1% damage enhancement
• 26.5% accuracy enhancement
• 26.5% endurance reduction
• 5.3% recharge reduction

All told, that's a lot of price to pay to get a 6-piece set bonus.

 

On top of that, Sudden Acceleration has no defense OR resistance on its set bonuses, something nearly all attack sets have.

 

All told, Sudden Acceleration is a poor substitute for an attack set.  Which is why nobody slots the set, and instead just slots 5 pieces of an attack set and the KB -> KD and then feels grumpy about losing a set bonus.

[Rudra]

You are still ignoring the set bonuses. Scirocco's Dervish gives a 10% regen bonus, then a 2.25% energy/negative resist bonus, then an accuracy bonus, then 2 defense bonuses. To Sudden Acceleration's movement bonus, max endurance bonus, universal DAMAGE bonus, hit points, and recharge.

 

The reason I chose Decimation for the comparison is because they have similar set bonuses. Even using Scirocco's Dervish for a comparison? The sets are competitive. You're contrasting different bonuses, which is a non-equal comparison, but the overall benefits are comparable.

 

Just looking at the damage, which is the biggest difference. Sudden Acceleration increases damage by 1.661 times. So the 83.4 damage Power Bolt then does 138.5 damage. If it could slot Scirocco's Dervish, it would be increased by 2.21 times for a total damage of 184.3. (Edit: And that factors in the procs' 71.75 damage.) That may shave off a hit. (When the proc procs.) It may not, but instead shave off half a hit. Chase numbers all you want. Max out your numbers. That's fine. The differences are not so great in the end. Could they be better? Yes. Does it make sense to bolster KB by 111.54% if you're just going to convert it to KD? Not especially. The set is not useless though. It could definitely stand to be tweaked, but it is not useless. And being unwilling to slot the set because not doing so may save you anywhere from half a hit to 1 hit? Well, I guess I just play differently than most.

 

Edit: I could see asking to have Sudden Acceleration give less KB bonuses since the set's proc converts the KB to KD anyway. Sure, ask for that. Convert the KB/Recharge or the KB/Accuracy to a Damage/Recharge or a Damage/Accuracy.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Rudra

[Stormwalker]

36 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You are still ignoring the set bonuses. Scirocco's Dervish gives a 10% regen bonus, then a 2.25% energy/negative resist bonus, then an accuracy bonus, then 2 defense bonuses. To Sudden Acceleration's movement bonus, max endurance bonus, universal DAMAGE bonus, hit points, and recharge.

 

The reason I chose Decimation for the comparison is because they have similar set bonuses. Even using Scirocco's Dervish for a comparison? The sets are competitive. You're contrasting different bonuses, which is a non-equal comparison, but the overall benefits are comparable.

 

Just looking at the damage, which is the biggest difference. Sudden Acceleration increases damage by 1.661 times. So the 83.4 damage Power Bolt then does 138.5 damage. If it could slot Scirocco's Dervish, it would be increased by 2.21 times for a total damage of 184.3. (Edit: And that factors in the procs' 71.75 damage.) That may shave off a hit. (When the proc procs.) It may not, but instead shave off half a hit. Chase numbers all you want. Max out your numbers. That's fine. The differences are not so great in the end. Could they be better? Yes. Does it make sense to bolster KB by 111.54% if you're just going to convert it to KD? Not especially. The set is not useless though. It could definitely stand to be tweaked, but it is not useless. And being unwilling to slot the set because not doing so may save you anywhere from half a hit to 1 hit? Well, I guess I just play differently than most.

 

Edit: I could see asking to have Sudden Acceleration give less KB bonuses since the set's proc converts the KB to KD anyway. Sure, ask for that. Convert the KB/Recharge or the KB/Accuracy to a Damage/Recharge or a Damage/Accuracy.

 

Ok, useless is probably hyperbole.  But it's a set that is at odds with itself in terms of its enhancement, and its set bonuses are less useful than the bonuses in the set I would otherwise slot.  So, let's call it "very supoptimal".  Note also that I did not include the proc in my numbers, because a damage set with a KB -> KD as I was suggesting wouldn't have that proc.

 

And the reason I chose Scirocco's for comparison is because that is the actual set I currently slot in Nova (minus one piece for the Sudden Acceleration KB -> KD), so the numbers reflect what I would actually be losing by making that switch.

 

As for the set bonuses, those are entirely situational as to which one is better.  It depends highly on the rest of your build.  As it happens, for me the defense bonuses from Scirocco's stack with my existing defense from Weave, Hover, Maneuvers, and the two +3% def IO's, so they provide me substantially more survival advantage than the bonuses from Sudden Acceleration.

 

Of course, my hypothetical damage set with KB -> KD might not get set bonuses that work any better for me than Sudden Acceleration's do, and if not, c'est la vie, but at least the power enhancement itself would be better, which would make the suboptimal set bonuses easier to live with. 

 

Of course, it's been pointed out to me in the other thread that Explosive Blast actually got fixed at some point, which I was not aware of, and is no longer useless without KB -> KD.  And if that's so, the whole thing is much less of an issue for me than it would be otherwise.

[thunderforce]

14 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

You are definitely right about people screaming when an energy blaster joins the team.  I have to admit, it really ticks me off, too.  Some of us know how to use our knockback as a tool and an asset to the team rather than a detriment.

This is typical of the problem.

 

Knockback is an asset to me because mobs go flying and it's hilarious. It's an asset to my regular IRL friends I team with for the same reason. We just don't care about getting XP 10% faster or whatever. Let us have our fun when we're alone and give us a toggle to not annoy other people when we're not.

[Nemu]

I don't understand this vehement opposition to having the toggle option as the OP suggested.

 

Those that want their KB can leave it off, slot KB sets into your powers to enhance your kb, go wild.

Those that don't want KB can turn the KD toggle on

Those that don't want KB in select powers can leave it off and slot the kb>kd converter into those powers like Explosive Blast or Nova.

 

Absolutely nothing is being taken away from anyone. Everyone wins.

 

This is no more than yet another QoL change, and we've had plenty of those implemented over the years, toggle suppression being the latest.

 

What I see is a bunch of old guards set in their ways unable to entertain the idea with an open mind. I get it. I feel the same kind of gnawing dissatisfaction every time I see a pure ranged hover blaster build that skips all the melee attacks while having a melee heavy secondary.

 

I think to myself "How dare you sully this AT with such a build, go back to playing sentinels or lol Melee ATs because you are obviously unfit to play blasters!" Perhaps that's the same kind of feeling some of the vocal opponents against this suggestion have. They've worked to make KB work for them and maybe they feel that the toggle cheapens their accomplishment? I can sympathize with that.

 

But you know what? If others want to build and play that way it's fine, it's not my business and it doesn't take away my ability to build and play my characters the way I want. Everyone gets what they want.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Nemu

[JasperStone]

17 minutes ago, Nemu said:

I don't understand this vehement opposition to having the toggle option as the OP suggested.

 

Those that want their KB can leave it off, slot KB sets into your powers to enhance your kb, go wild.

Those that don't want KB can turn the KD toggle on

Those that don't want KB in select powers can leave it off and slot the kb>kd converter into those powers like Explosive Blast or Nova.

 

Absolutely nothing is being taken away from anyone. Everyone wins.

 

This is no more than yet another QoL change, and we've had plenty of those implemented over the years, toggle suppression being the latest.

 

What I see is a bunch of old guards set in their ways unable to entertain the idea with an open mind. I get it. I feel the same way every time I see a pure ranged hover blaster build that skips all the melee attacks while having a melee heavy secondary. But you know what? If they want to build and play that way it's fine, it's not my business and it doesn't take away my ability to build and play my blasters the way I want. Everyone gets what they want.

A toggle effects every single KB power.

 

I suck it up and slot a KB >proc into almost all powers that do it.

 

I leave a single target KB as an emergency "get away from me" power

[JasperStone]

19 hours ago, Rudra said:

Another claim that using a set is a enhancement tax. You didn't use those words, but you are saying the same things. Here's a(n admittedly snarky) thought: Use the set and not just the single enhancement. It gives bonuses too. Saying using this one enhancement from a set prevents you from getting set bonuses is a very poor argument. You're saying the set that enhancement is in doesn't give set bonuses.

 

As has been said in so many KB-KD threads I have read, the way KD changes KB powers is a huge advantage. Like the Tornado and Bonfire no longer throwing mobs away, but keeping them in its damage effect constantly falling in place. You do not get that for free.

No.

No.

and....

to be clear

No.

I did not use those words purposefully, because I believe it to be a silly statement.

It is your choice to interpret them so.

[Nemu]

1 minute ago, JasperStone said:

A toggle effects every single KB power.

 

I suck it up and slot a KB >proc into almost all powers that do it.

 

I leave a single target KB as an emergency "get away from me" power

I see what you are getting at.

 

At the same time you can just choose the third option - leave the toggle off and slot everything as you do today. Nothing changes for you. Those that turn the toggle on will have to adopt different strategies for keeping stuff away. You can consider that the cost of the toggle, just like the "KB tax" is the cost of slotting the KD IO into powers currently.

[thunderforce]

21 hours ago, Rudra said:

Another claim that using a set is a enhancement tax. You didn't use those words, but you are saying the same things. Here's a(n admittedly snarky) thought: Use the set and not just the single enhancement. It gives bonuses too. Saying using this one enhancement from a set prevents you from getting set bonuses is a very poor argument. You're saying the set that enhancement is in doesn't give set bonuses.

 

As has been said in so many KB-KD threads I have read, the way KD changes KB powers is a huge advantage. Like the Tornado and Bonfire no longer throwing mobs away, but keeping them in its damage effect constantly falling in place. You do not get that for free.

 

OP here, not making that claim. I very nearly always slot complete sets in attacks anyway and Overwhelming Force is perfectly serviceable apart from the no-fun bit. I don't want it but if I get it I absolutely do get it for free.

 

Hell, if this is a serious problem, make the toggle not affect powers where it's felt to provide too great a benefit.