issue 27 Focused Feedback: Symphony Control

[Captain Powerhouse]

A note about the sounds: 

Originally the set started life with the name Music Control, and the fx were simply borrowed and modified versions of talon critters. The sounds are just coming from there, and any oddity between the set name and the sounds, chalk it to me being sold by the team that Symphony Control was way more fitting a name given the power names.

 

I considered making an alternate theme with new, entirely instrumental sounds (something that would had sounded very similar to that one scene in Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Darkness, we have no way of just removing the voice from the current sounds [spoiler link]) but there was not enough interest on it during closed beta and time was limited. If I have time sometime before we are out of beta, I'll see if it can be done.

 

[Burnt Umber]

After playing around with the set on Beta, I would say that Symphony Control is a fun powerset overall.  I tried it out with a Controller pairing it with Empathy and Thermal and on a Dominator pairing it with Fiery Assault.  I ran various radio missions to get a low stakes and broad spectrum of enemy types.

 

Observations:

• Because of the damage component of the powers - especially that of Confounding Chant (the stun cone) - and the soft control of many of the powers, the set sort of leans into the powers being slotted for damage rather than the control.  And as a result, the set feels very "blast-like" with me being able to clear even level minions by the end of my attack chain.
• For both archetypes, I ran the attack chain of Sleep Cone -> Immob. Cone -> Stun Cone -> Fear Cone -> Ranged AoE Attack (Fire Breath on the Dom. and Fireball on the Controller) with the cone controls all 5-slotted with "Annihilation" for damage.
• The damage was nice on the the Dom. and, by pairing it with fire, I was able to stay at range rather than having to jump back and forth from range to melee.  But, at the same time, Domination mode was noticeably less helpful because many of my controls broke from the damage and the longer duration/higher magnitude made little difference.
• Although I was able to get good AoE damage on the Controller, the set interacts oddly with Containment.  All of the damaging powers benefited greatly from the extra damage, but Containment itself was tricky to maintain because it breaks from the softer controls (i.e., the sleep) or the controls themselves are lower priority (i.e., the immob.).
• I personally was having difficulty with Confounding Chant (the stun cone) the most of all the powers because it deals good damage so I want to have it benefit from Containment (thereby preventing me from using it as an opener or immediate followup to the sleep), yet it provided the best control outside the hold and had a long-ish recharge (thereby penalizing me the longer I delayed it in my attack chain).
• Chords of Despair (the targeted AoE Hold) was sort of lackluster for a hold delayed past level 18.  Unlike either Earth Control or Dark Control, it doesn't create a patch or reapply itself.  It ends up being sort of similar to Ice Control's (imo) lackluster AoE hold that appears at level 26.
• Given my prior two points, I wish that Chords of Despair and Confounding Chant were switched in their order, and that Confounding Chant were spiced-up in someway (e.g., it also had a chance for a mag. 2 confusion).  Alternatively, if the order is kept as is, I wish that Chords of Despair were spiced-up in someway (e.g. it had a useful debuff like -Res. or -Def. ).
• Reverb, is a cool, new pet and I found it pretty helpful and hardy once I summoned it, but I found that he seemed to get stuck or to cease following me more often than other pets seem to.

I look forward to playing the set more once it gets published to Homecoming.

[goldenstriker]

I tested this out with a remake of my toon which should have been made with a symphony control according to theme, but I settled with sonic attack. It was an emp/sonic defender, and on beta, I remade it as a symphony/emp controller. I have not played controllers very often, to be fair, so my experience/observations come from someone being drawn to the set not because I want to complete my experience with the controller playstyle, but because I had a theme idea which I loved, and was trying something new. I hope to see it go through!

 

- The aesthetics of the set are great! I understand some are asking to add a non-music-note option, but if someone cared about theme that much, they should simply make a sonic toon, imo. The possibilities for toon themes with the set is only as limited as one's music culture knowledge.

- The sfx are a little incongruent with the title of the set. I suppose according to your musical culture, the current sfx might be considered symphonic/harmonic, but considering we are working in a heavily western based setting, it would make more sense that the music sfx on "symphony control" would sound something like sound bytes from a symphonic performance, rather than the atonal siren calls. Much like the scene you referenced from Dr Strange - I see in your post you stated that this will be addressed; thank you.

- Feels very smooth, animation wise, and while I've only run it in open areas (open zone, cimeroran cave mission maps) the cone mechanics come off just fine. One simply must position well, which I am used to doing while soloing speedruns on a blaster with minimal defenses. I imagine learning to position well with it should be considered a part of the skill curve to master the class/set.

- My damage is actually about roughly the same between the older defender build and the new controller build, and considering the controller build I slapped together in 10 minutes was not proc'd out or optimized, that felt pretty nice.

- The Reverberent pet seemed to get stuck even more than other pets I've used. I would have it summoned at the same time as my Banished Pantheon lore pets, and the lore pets would find their way back to me while I had to go back to pick up Reverb from around a corner.

 

[Captain Powerhouse]

4 minutes ago, goldenstriker said:

Much like the scene you referenced from Dr Strange - I see in your post you stated that this will be addressed; thank you.

 

Might. There is a high chance there wont be much bandwidth to get that done and players might have to rely on modding. Keep an eye out for future updates.

[Redletter]

20 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

A note about the sounds: 

Originally the set started life with the name Music Control, and the fx were simply borrowed and modified versions of talon critters. The sounds are just coming from there, and any oddity between the set name and the sounds, chalk it to me being sold by the team that Symphony Control was way more fitting a name given the power names.

 

I considered making an alternate theme with new, entirely instrumental sounds (something that would had sounded very similar to that one scene in Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Darkness, we have no way of just removing the voice from the current sounds [spoiler link]) but there was not enough interest on it during closed beta and time was limited. If I have time sometime before we are out of beta, I'll see if it can be done.

 

 

Wait.... YOU'RE responsible for this set?! Thank you! I love it. Love it love it love it.

 

A few things i just wanna say from other comments on the set so far

1. It's not "Mind Control, but with a Pet". The kinda of Hard CC you get with Mind Control is different enough from what you're doing with Symphony that the two offer legitimate variation in how they play that saying this would be like saying "Plants is just better MC". It's an argument without much substance. It's not a replacement for Mind Control anymore than Willpower is for Regeneration. The REAL argument to be had is that is this set STRONGER than Mind Control, which I would agree with, but then, a lot of sets are in my opinion and it doesnt make my Mind Control characters my favorite crowd control characters.
2. The "give me a version without song notes" seems to kinda miss the point of the thematics of the set? Like, do you want a version of elect control without the lightning? Fire control without the flames? I'm an absolute slut for customization options, especially in the way of powers, ESPECIALLY for the cause of making character concepts work more fluidly or that otherwise empower the ability to make a set work for you. But I think it's also something that may be quite hard to alter, and it genuinely doesnt need that alteration made, because it's a sound based set. I feel like we "pretend" enough with powersets already, that just "pretending" the notes don't exist is not so much a stretch as saying like "My peacebringer isnt a kheldian" or "the atomic orbit from my rad powers is ACTUALLY bees carrying L.E.Ds" or what have you. Hell, I've said it'd be nice if Beam Rifle had eye based animations to mimic laser beam eye type heroes, but I never said it SHOULD be done.
3. I know you mentioned the final release WONT include the "grants power" tool tip, but I would humbly request that it be kept in. This information details a lot about the pet's echo of your powers and really only helps the player understand the mechanics of their pet more, and I think it's a lot more organic than trying to read them in a list on the Pet power itself (like say, Master Mind's pet upgrades powers that have enormous lists of "grants X power).
4. People observing the powerset plays very well as a blast set make a great point, if you spec it out for this you can do a lot of it. But I think saying people won't spec it for control is a bit unfair, seeing as how many CC sets are already spec'd for damage as is. since control effects have a limited number of thing's you'd call "must haves". Like, ok so every hold you have on nearly any set is going to want Lockdown: +2, that's almost a given, and the... I think it's Devastation that has the chance for hold? So that's 2 out of potentially 6 slots in your hold, which usually lasts long enough that ANOTHER CC power will be back up, and allow you to alternate between your controls with little down-time (especially true on a dominator, where you're already liable to be building global CD reduction as hard as you can). I would honestly argue that it's an INCREDBILE control set that's best spec'd FOR control, but the fact you could do either makes the set fit really well into whatever role you'd like to take -- hell, if you could afford to do it, you could have builds for both.
5. I like that the confuse does damage. I love a good confuse, but this set has enough AoE that you or your pet are likely to have mez'd your confuse target anyway. I found it was much more reliable power as a damage tool than a control tool, since I already have so much control going out.

So, I had a few questions I made in this post in regard to the system giving me some information I'd like to have for my pet (either through the pet combat windows or some U.I feature) but I'll share them here in brief alongside some other questions I have.

 

Pet-to-Player Feedback

1. When it catches the "echo" of one of my powers. Right now it seems to catch as soon as I've cast one, no matter where I am, but it also seems to not use them until I'm close to the pet. I'm not sure if this is an A.I issue or simply a quirk of the pet, but being able to see something like [Pet Name] is echoing [Power Name] would go a long way to help follow what the pet is doing/capable of doing.
2. When it LOSES the "echo" of a power. I can't tell WHEN this happens, like, when it just totally stops echoing a power. Is it a timer? Is it on the singular cast of the pet version of the power? It's unclear, and I'd like it to not be unclear.
3. When its "echoes" are off cooldown (assuming they aren't lost once theyre cast) would be nice. It may even do this already and I just didnt have the correct pet combat tab open, but I never felt like I knew.
4. What "echoes" it currently HAS. As I ran through DA, I'd find it'll use powers I used before, but definitely DIDN'T want it to use, and I'd have waited to engage if I knew it was waiting for the chance do an encore. In this situation, if I really wanted to, I could have dismessed the pet entirely, but the ability to know what casts the pet has access to in the moment would be nice for other reasons.

Pet Questions (Pestions?)

1. Does the Pet echo my powers in the order I've used them? Or does it just use them randomly? I can't tell, and testing hasnt given me a conclusive answer. I feel like that's how it'd work, a sorta verbal afterimage, but I also know that could not be the case at all.
2. Can the pet be set to aggressive mode, or given other commands? I notice that it can really just hang out sometimes, not doing anything, despite me being engaged in a fight. It'll just fly up to me, wait until the second or third minion has been defeated, then jumps into combat. I enjoy that most of the time, as long as it has no echoes and I havent engaged a pack of mobs, most mobs will just ignore it but I'd like to be able to say "Hey, stop hanging out and start screaming at these idiots with me".
3. Does Domination effect the version of the power the pet is granted? Like, if I use Dominate, does the pet power granted to the pet improve proportionally alongside Dominate's buffs? Or is it a static power only modified by player level, enhancements to the pet, and buff powers cast on the pet itself like Amp Up?
4. Do the pet's echoes set up for Containment? In my testing it didn't seem to? But then I can't even remember the numbers I was getting.

Closing thoughts

 

So, I really like this set. A lot. It's very stylish and I love it. I love that is has a lot of AoE without it being just ranged AoE CC bombs. I fricken A D O R E the pet, it's literally the first pet I ever cared to take on a control set. Adore it. Can't wait for it to hit live. Thank you.

[Captain Powerhouse]

The pet will do things when it wants to do them, just like any other control set pet.

 

There is no distance limits for the pet to acquire the echo power, but who knows how player distance affects the AI.

 

It wont have any powers to use until you do something, then it will have a power, but that power will have its own cooldown and that cooldown is unaffected by your recharge enhancements. This means you might be able to use powers faster than they cool down on the pet. If you have a perma-hasten build and can spam the stun or hun fast, dont expect the same out of the pet.

 

Right now there is a delay between when you use a power and when the pet gets it. That timer varies per power, some up to 15s later, the delay timers are being reduced in the next patch.

 

Domination does not affect the pet, same as any other control set. Nor does Containment.

[AustinSmith]

 

Messing around with texturing the set in the creator, it looks like Enfeebling Lullaby still has this bright white blast vfx even though I have the power textured completely red.

 

 

Additionally, Melodic Binding and Aria of Stasis' swirly notes will be pretty much white no matter what color I set them to (I do notice there is a slight hue difference to them, but they still look white).

 

Since I know these powers were reused from Talons Sirens and I'm not sure how the vfx works, is it possible to get a dark color tintable customization option, or is color tintable/light currently the only possible availability?

[Captain Powerhouse]

It's unlikely that there will be a dark theme. The set uses quite a bit of geometric fx, and we cant easily create dark tintable versions of those, they would never match a dark theme.

 

Enfeebling Lullaby was already fixed internally.

[Marshal_General]

I would to see a power that mezzes a mob by making it do a dance emote for the duration.

[Mezmera]

46 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

I would to see a power that mezzes a mob by making it do a dance emote for the duration.

 

Yes Chords of Despair would seem appropriately thematic for some pop dance emote hold.  My other control characters would be super jealous of something like this though, bad enough everyone and their mother gets Ghost Widow's awesome hold, except for actual control characters...

[Voltak]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:29 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. Due to a RL emergency will likely not be able to post a follow-up anytime soon but wanted to quickly address a recurring theme that seems to have stalled the thread:

 

 

 

While creating the set, I wanted to make something different, something that played uniquely. The confuse in this set, from my perspective, is meant to be seen more as you would a hold or a stun, one that happens to bring the target’s abilities to aid you. 

 

Symphony is meant to be a loud set, and stealth or discretion are definitively far removed from its design direction. This might not mean future ST confuses, if any, will start notifying, but it also does not mean there wont ever again be a ST confuse that notifies. If it fits the direction and theme of a set, a similar thing might be seen again.

 

 

 

Captain Powerhouse,

I appreciate the response.  I also appreciate the work and effort all of you put into the game for us, and all players who might come back to the game or be introduced to it in the future.

I certainly understand I will share your hope to make something different.
As of right now every power set in the category of “control” is different.

I have some questions which I think are important to answer to evaluate the set, performance, and utility from the use or from the perspective of a dominator, even a dominator starting from level 1 and who will grind the character all the way to 50.

1) How viable is this to solo as a dominator?

2) How many instruments or tools are available to place the enemies under control, to reliably and safely (most important) open contact with enemies, and then proceed to attack the enemies are dominated or controlled ?

3) Did you design the set to center around one core hard control?  Is your AoE stun this hard control that the set revolved around?

Was this set tested to grind with from 1-50 solo , or even just to lvl 33 or so ?

4) How willing are we to the notion that improvements can be made and things are probably not optimal?  

As a dominator player with extensive experience, playing them since CoV back in live, back in 2005-2006, and reviewing this set as it is, here is my feedback:

1.  From my standard that opening a group with a dominator should foremost (for the same of safety) be done with a hard control to avoid retaliation of any kind,  this is not a viable dominator control set to solo with while grinding.  I

t is lacking at the early levels a way to safely engage a group in your pursuit to dominate or control them.  I am keeping in mind that Dominators have no secondary sets that provide them safety or mitigation.  So this whole feedback does not apply to controllers as much. 

The only power as of right now to engage the groups in the pursuit to control them first and then to attack them safely is the AoE Stun , if it hits. But that power comes in quite a bit late in the journey. 

Because of this, in comparison with other sets, as a viable solo set, according to my standards, this set is lacking.

Granted, once 50 and once with IOs and soft cap defenses and so on, the whole thing is susceptible to another review and opinion.  No question there.

2. On point number 2, refer to my answer above regarding the first issue.
I understand the team is looking at the sleep issue and reaction to dmg.
While grinding your only option here is the sleep , attack single targets, or sleep, then fear, attack single targets and if another group is aggro’d or patrolling, and the sleep or fear are on cooldown, you must remember you have no hard AoE controls until you get the stun later, much later. 

3. If you designed the set to all focused and built around the Stun, I can understand that and I can support that , of course. 
But I suggest you do this in the same way plant was built. 
The whole plant control set fails or is successful on Seeds. 
Take seeds out and plant is worse than even Symphonic if I judge it with the criteria above.
So, to that end, I suggest that you move the AoE stun earlier and you reduce the cooldown by a lot.

That way the whole set will reflect, more than before, that it is focused or developed to function around the key AoE stun, the key for making the whole set come together for a strong control set, in terms of pure control (not dmg) or the foundation of the whole control set. 
Other sets don't have ONE power upon which the whole set is based, I can name them here but that will detract and I don't want that. 
But there is a set whose whole foundation is one power which makes the whole set a strong one for "control". 
So it's a good idea if that's the route we the players want to approach the new set created. 


4. Even with your intent to design Symphonic, you can keep it loud in theme, and still have the Confuse power not aggro or not do any damage. You have the effects of the power be loyal to the theme of the set.  
That still does not place a need for the confuse to do dmg. 
This is true if you do not move the Stun to much earlier levels and reduce the cooldown. 

Even if there is no rule for single target confuse to be no-notify, they still work way better when they are no-notify in terms of utility for opening contact with enemies safely. 

Want it to be different and loud?  How about this idea?  The music or melody is so enticing that when neighboring enemies to your target hear the melody or sound , there is a chance the ST confuse will also be so contagious that they will also be confused, limited the target cap to this effect to just one enemy. 
You don’t need to cause it to aggro.



I hope we keep the players who are grinding in mind.  Especially players who will have a hard time to fully IO their characters and make them really powerful with IOs.

I write all of this with much respect to you and for the pure love of the game and love of dominators.

Sincerely,

Voltak

Edited July 25, 2022 by Voltak

[TygerDarkstorm]

I know I don't play at the cutting edge like you do, Voltak, but so far on beta I have not had any issues soloing on my Sympony/Fire/Leviathan dom at level 40 in regular content, and I'm a noob when it comes to learning how to slot a character.

@oedipus_tex has also provided some good tips for playing with this set. I took the confuse on my dom, but I use it exactly the way @Captain Powerhouse describes: as an extra tool in my arsenal of controls as opposed to using it as an opening move. This is a set that feels like it wants to play pretty aggressively; I personally find it to be a lot of fun after taking Tex's tips for using it on a dom.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I know I don't play at the cutting edge like you do, Voltak, but so far on beta I have not had any issues soloing on my Sympony/Fire/Leviathan dom at level 40 in regular content, and I'm a noob when it comes to learning how to slot a character.

@oedipus_tex has also provided some good tips for playing with this set. I took the confuse on my dom, but I use it exactly the way @Captain Powerhouse describes: as an extra tool in my arsenal of controls as opposed to using it as an opening move. This is a set that feels like it wants to play pretty aggressively; I personally find it to be a lot of fun after taking Tex's tips for using it on a dom.

The issue is what to do before the Stun and how ?  
What to do outside of IOs , tricked out, super decked out builds?  
You feel me?

How much can you take on before the stun is available , how smooth of a solo ride, what instruments do you have and options so you can decide how you proceed ? 

That's what I am getting at.

So, let's focus on before the AOE stun is available to you, ok?
Also, are we abusing inspirations to make up for the holes in our controls?

So, do we take 1-2 purples and open the groups before the AoE stun  is available ?

Can you feel what I am getting at?

Now , let's talk about after the Stun is added as one of your powers, and before lvl 33, cool?

Ok, now, after the Stun is used and it is on cooldown, what else do we have?
Do we just wait until it is back up to open up a group?  

Listen, for content, EASY content, I am sure I can make anything work if I have free access to all the tools in the game -- temps, inspirations, p2ws, and so on. 

But that's not how I am measuring this.  

Thanks for the time to read and respond

If you read my post carefully, I said that this is a different discussion once all IOs are taken in and defense is cap'd and before incarnates are taken to fill what else you may have to do. 

I hope you get a feel for what I am saying

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Voltak

[TygerDarkstorm]

38 minutes ago, Voltak said:

The issue is what to do before the Stun and how ?  
What to do outside of IOs , tricked out, super decked out builds?  
You feel me?

How much can you take on before the stun is available , how smooth of a solo ride, what instruments do you have and options so you can decide how you proceed ? 

That's what I am getting at.

So, let's focus on before the AOE stun is available to you, ok?
Also, are we abusing inspirations to make up for the holes in our controls?

So, do we take 1-2 purples and open the groups before the AoE stun  is available ?

Can you feel what I am getting at?

Now , let's talk about after the Stun is added as one of your powers, and before lvl 33, cool?

Ok, now, after the Stun is used and it is on cooldown, what else do we have?
Do we just wait until it is back up to open up a group?  

Listen, for content, EASY content, I am sure I can make anything work if I have free access to all the tools in the game -- temps, inspirations, p2ws, and so on. 

But that's not how I am measuring this.  

Thanks for the time to read and respond

If you read my post carefully, I said that this is a different discussion once all IOs are taken in and defense is cap'd and before incarnates are taken to fill what else you may have to do. 

I hope you get a feel for what I am saying

 

I see what you're saying; I admittedly boosted all my Symph toons to level 40, so yes, I have not yet tried the set leveling up and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of that concern too. I will have to see about trying one from scratch to see how it plays before it gets all the good tools. Because yeah, at level 40 with my ghetto slotting, I'm not having too many issues with running radios. Only thing I can suggest is to get on beta and test it out yourself. A lot of your questions can be answered by actually playing the set. Many of us who have tried it do not feel it as bad as you are making it out to be. I know we all have different playstyles, and I feel that much of what you want answered could be handled by jumping on and putting the set through your personal tests.

[Voltak]

2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I see what you're saying; I admittedly boosted all my Symph toons to level 40, so yes, I have not yet tried the set leveling up and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of that concern too. I will have to see about trying one from scratch to see how it plays before it gets all the good tools. Because yeah, at level 40 with my ghetto slotting, I'm not having too many issues with running radios. Only thing I can suggest is to get on beta and test it out yourself. A lot of your questions can be answered by actually playing the set. Many of us who have tried it do not feel it as bad as you are making it out to be. I know we all have different playstyles, and I feel that much of what you want answered could be handled by jumping on and putting the set through your personal tests.

I am not asking for myself. 

I am speaking on behalf of anyone and everyone who might experience what I see. 

Thanks for reading again what I wrote.   It is important to address or respond but to respond specifically what I am addressing. 

Since you went straight to 40, I respectfully say to you, that you missed everything I am addressing.   I recognized you admit to this. 
But you say "many of us have tried it and do not feel it as bad as you are making it out to be", you say that AFTER you admit that you have no experience dealing what I am addressing. 
So please refrain from commenting or making statements that it's not like I said since you  admit you have no experience dealing with what I am saying. 
Do you have an inclination to disagree with me no matter what I say?

Is there any part of you that tells you I may have a very good point here?
My suggestion is to experience this yourself.  
Every set has to be measured this way since I am trying to judge it as a whole not just a finished build and all IO"d at 50 since those characters are just totally different. 

Handshake.  
 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Voltak

[TygerDarkstorm]

3 minutes ago, Voltak said:

I am not asking for myself. 

I am speaking on behalf of anyone and everyone who might experience what I see. 

Thanks for reading again what I wrote.   It is important to address or respond but to respond specifically what I am addressing. 

Since you went straight to 40, I respectfully say to you, that you missed everything I am addressing.   I recognized you admit to this. 
But you say "many of us have tried it and do not feel it as bad as you are making it out to be", you say that AFTER you admit that you have no experience dealing what I am addressing. 
So please refrain from commenting or making statements that it's not like I said since you  admit you have no experience dealing with what I am saying. 
Do you have an inclination to disagree with me no matter what I say?

Is there any part of you that tells you I may have a very good point here?
My suggestion is to experience this yourself.  
Every set has to be measured this way since I am trying to judge it as a whole not just a finished build and all IO"d at 50 since those characters are just totally different. 

Handshake.  
 

I think you are misunderstanding me somewhere. My point is that I completely understand your concern, and it is an interesting area to be explored, and if you really want the answers to it because you feel us other testers haven't given it, then you need to log into Brainstorm and test it out at the low levels yourself and provide feedback that is based on actually playing the set and not just speculating. 

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I think you are misunderstanding me somewhere. My point is that I completely understand your concern, and it is an interesting area to be explored, and if you really want the answers to it because you feel us other testers haven't given it, then you need to log into Brainstorm and test it out at the low levels yourself and provide feedback that is based on actually playing the set and not just speculating. 

Thanks
I get you. 

What I am referring is that you say 

"Many of us who have tried it do not feel it as bad as you are making it out to be. "

But before that , you say 

" I admittedly boosted all my Symph toons to level 40, so yes, I have not yet tried the set leveling up and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of that concern too. I will have to see about trying one from scratch to see how it plays ..."

So, how can you feel one way or another about what I am saying if you have not tried it nor tested it, tested specifically what I am saying.
In this case, it would be you doing the speculating.  Right? 

Also, again, I don't need to answer this for myself. 
I already know , I already seen, I am asking those questions to the Developers, and I am asking on behalf of all players who will face these issues or questions. 

I hope we understand each other now a lot better. 

Peace

Edited July 25, 2022 by Voltak

[TygerDarkstorm]

So, I rolled a fresh Symph/Dark Dom on beta and didn't boost level this time. Picked up Impassioned Serenade and started messing around with it. I'd say like 80% of the time, I managed to fire it off as an opener without the rest of the spawn getting notified. And the times where it did notify, I just started to try and adjust my playstyle to play aggressive/defensive depending on map layout, insp's available, etc. Playing at +0/x2 running contact missions and I feel the same about the set so far as I do on my level 40 beta toons--I don't think the notify is the end of the world, even with the damage and notification. I like Captain Powerhouse's vision for the set and I think it's fun to have a control set that plays so differently and aggressive. I am finding it useful to confuse the Lt's in the spawn and then work on blasting down the minions with their help. Again, I'm just an average player, not a min/maxer or cutting edge or whatever, but, as of now, I don't have a reason to be up in arms that the confuse notifies, especially when you can cheese it at max range and can often get away with firing it off without it notifying the others.

 

Edit: You get the fear cone at level 8, so you can easily use that to help break the alpha from the confuse notifying. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by TygerDarkstorm

[twozerofoxtrot]

I enjoy this set design.

 

It comes off to me as something that meshes well with the current state of rapid-paced team play. My take thusfar is that it'll offer something (besides Plant and Fire) to help shore up Controllers in relation to Doms in those circumstances, which I am assuming was the intent.

 

Specific thoughts:

 

- Thank you for the Confuse proc bomb. I love it. Seems more useful on a Controller, though that's a common theme.

 

- Lowering the cooldowns on the pet's echoed powers would help reduce confusion as to it's utility. Glad to see this is coming in the next build.

 

- All of the cones have the same dimensions, save Aria. Any chance we could make this universal? Or even just extend Aria's radius out to 70? As of right now it's a bit awkward if I want to set up Containment at lower levels (IE: Aria into Discord), or for other powers in a rapid succession of mob groups (Chant can only recharge so fast). There might be some underlying design philosophy that is driving the difference that I'm not read in on, but if not having universal cone dimensions throughout would make both playing and slotting less cumbersome. 

 

 

[arcane]

I don’t think it’s a problem that the set is better on one AT or another. That’s true of most of the sets. The reverse of Mind Control’s situation, to say the least.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I don’t think it’s a problem that the set is better on one AT or another. That’s true of most of the sets. The reverse of Mind Control’s situation, to say the least.

I think it's going to be especially good on controllers who are storms, among others perhaps.  

I think Symphonic/Storm will give the top dmg dealers a run for their money :  Fire/Storm and Plant/Storm, Illusion/Storm.  [Referring to Lvl 50s, all decked out and incarnated). 
Symphonic is all about dmg and few hard controls and as such it will be perfect for Storm. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Voltak

[twozerofoxtrot]

One confusing thing I recently noticed:

 

Enfeebling Lullaby has it's damage listed as "Moderate" when the damage is lower than Dreadful Discord, which is listed as "Minor."

 

Perhaps the descriptions on these two powers should be switched in that regard?  

[arcane]

6 hours ago, Voltak said:

I think it's going to be especially good on controllers who are storms, among others perhaps.  

I think Symphonic/Storm will give the top dmg dealers a run for their money :  Fire/Storm and Plant/Storm, Illusion/Storm.  [Referring to Lvl 50s, all decked out and incarnated). 
Symphonic is all about dmg and few hard controls and as such it will be perfect for Storm. 

That’s what I’m leaning towards first, Symphony/Storm. Song of Storms vibes 🙂 

[KaizenSoze]

13 hours ago, arcane said:

That’s what I’m leaning towards first, Symphony/Storm. Song of Storms vibes 🙂 

Yes, Symphony has some damage and Storm has buckets of it. I will be trying that combo out today.

 

At this point, I think Symphony is best as a controller set. Provides damage that controllers need, the soft nature of most of the controls does hurt as much because controllers can build good defense.

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Yes, Symphony has some damage and Storm has buckets of it. I will be trying that combo out today.

 

At this point, I think Symphony is best as a controller set. Provides damage that controllers need, the soft nature of most of the controls does hurt as much because controllers can build good defense.

Tested the new changes on a Symph/Thermal build im thinking of carrying over to live and it seems pretty good!

 

Glad the pet repeats quicker, was very nice for locking down a group