Masterminds have wanted changes for years now.

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Lets do a quick comparison.

 

How about another quick comparison:

 

OP complaining about MMs not getting updates: 7 posts.

Rudra arguing with OP and other posters: 34 posts.

 

If you didn't feel the need to argue the crap out of other people's suggestions (mostly because they don't suit your preferences) this conversation probably would've gone somewhere else. Most likely it would've sunk off the page, with no need for locking.

[plainguy]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:46 AM, Rudra said:

 

Plant Manipulation is a Blaster secondary. So is Earth manipulation and Darkness Manipulation. Nothing new has been created. The player is asking to make a specific power set look like another power set the AT already has. Why? If a player wants to play an earth-themed Blaster? Guess what? It already exists. A dark-themed Blaster? It already exists. A tech-themed Blaster? It already exists. Should I go on?

 

If a player wants to play a specific theme on most ATs, (s)he can already play most of them. This is not asking for something new, this is asking to be able to play a preferred power set and claim it is something else. Like I've heard Bio Armor players do already. If you want to play a theme and that theme already exists? Then play the theme. It is right there ready and waiting to be used. Don't like the animations? Then ask for alternate animations for that set.

 

If players want something new, then ask for it. I'm fine with that. AR attacks coming from a shoulder cannon? Great! New AR animations for the win! Plant Manipulation looking like special devices? We have... wait for it... Devices. Use it.

 

Yes actually. Pretty much all of my characters are played because I enjoy the animations or the power set fits the theme of the character. I don't actually know what power sets in any given AT are the best or the worst. I just know the ones I enjoy using on my characters and the ones that bore me to tears. (Edit: And for the ones that bore me to tears? I just need to find a concept that is fun to play. A few power sets I use on current characters are sets I was bored with until I found a character concept that was fun. So it is not the sets specifically that are boring, it was the concepts I tried.)

 

People already do that. They don't need every theme animation for their one and only preferred power set per AT to do so. They can do what they already do. Say the power set is actually something else. (Edit: And if the power set does not look like they want for elemental or other theme? Then use the power set that has that theme. There is no need to min-max everything. Other power sets are just as fun when you find a good concept for them.)

 

In this thread, the OP laments that Masterminds have not gotten the changes he wants. A Mastermind change that is frequently asked for is pet customizations. I would rather the devs spend their time fixing the game, making upgrades, making new content including power sets, and hopefully incorporating fixes and alterations players have been asking for. As opposed to wasting time making a means for a single power set to be everything.

 

If they decide to do so? Whatever. It is a waste of time, but it is their time to waste duplicating themes on ATs that already exist.

Sorry I missed the part where you decide what customizations I should or shouldn't have. 

Devices is like plant Manipulation? 

Again no its not.. Devices is Devices and Plant Manipulations is Plant Manipulation.. 

Further you need to understand, you have an issue in the sense you take everything literal and twist sentences together I never said.
You have to have some common sense in trying to create power customization themes for sets.. Not all will adapt well.  

As I stated.. The OP  should resolve to the fact that Mastermind changes are difficult..  It is clear to me at least.. I have yet to see the Devs tackle anything major with Masterminds.. They REVERTED the PET AI.. They modified recharge and endurance cost on pets.. Nothing that has not been done with other power sets.. 

See I think we have TONS of power sets already.. What we need is a new look to these powers.. I played this game since day one.. They are long in the tooth for someone like me.. 

Further there are themes but you would have to go Dark / Dark.. Fire / Fire.. for example.. But not everyone likes go this route.. 

But the point you are missing is creating new animations for existing powers creates a pool of animation for future NEW powers.. 
Again as an example.. 

They get a college intern.. He creates 12 animations for Energy Blast.. Only 6 are used.. 6 are now in reserve for a future set.. OR they keep it in reserve for future updates.. 

If you read the post from the Devs on the walking animation as I mentioned you would understand they need the actual original animation to make changes.. If they don't have it, the cannot change it.. 

No reason why my energy blast has to look like your energy blast just red.. 
Again Dual Pistols is bullets. 
Crey pistol temp.. 
Munitions mastery cryo freeze ray.. 
Both are not shooting bullets. 

You can shoot an energy blast from your hands and eyes.. 

But a player can't shoot an energy blast from a pistol? 
I am forced to have a rifle to shoot a energy beam from ? 
Laser guns just don't exist in this superhero world?

Blasters have 14 Primary and 15 Secondary.. You have 210 options !..  That isn't enough for right now? 
You want new when the old is still lacking..  How about you fix what you already have AND then move onto something new..  It just doesn't make sense.. I hate to say it but that is millennial mentality.. I want new all the time.. 

So what you are  basically saying is creating drastically alternate animation to EXISTING sets is not good.. That it MUST BE for a NEW set.. 

So if you want a laser PISTOL it has to come from a new set called Laser Pistol..  

 



 

[biostem]

If we go with the assumption that there is some underlying "code trickery" that allows MMs to function, then there should be some commonality within that code, which once uncovered, should allow the customization to be done in 1 fell swoop.  That being said, I do not discount that such customization would be a huge undertaking.  Still, if you can pin down MM pet customization, you've just opened up the possibilities 1000-fold...

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

OP complaining about MMs not getting updates: 7 posts.

Rudra arguing with OP and other posters: 34 posts.

Not relevant.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Sorry I missed the part where you decide what customizations I should or shouldn't have. 

I never said what customizations you could should or could should not have. I argue for logic. Because again, even comics use logic. It's not slapstick cartoons.

I also argue to use what we already have that does what people say they want.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Devices is like plant Manipulation? 

Of course not. Devices is devices. A Blaster power set for those characters that want to have an array of gadgets as a power set. Plant Manipulation being made into Devices is what I am against.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Further you need to understand, you have an issue in the sense you take everything literal

I fully understand that. Of course I take things literally. That is not an issue I have. It is the only way I can function.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

and twist sentences together I never said.

Nope. I repeat the things others say and present my arguments for or against. No twisting involved. Just presenting your comments to you as I understand them.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

You have to have some common sense in trying to create power customization themes for sets.

YES! Something we agree on!

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

As I stated.. The OP  should resolve to the fact that Mastermind changes are difficult..  It is clear to me at least.. I have yet to see the Devs tackle anything major with Masterminds.. They REVERTED the PET AI.. They modified recharge and endurance cost on pets.. Nothing that has not been done with other power sets.. 

So... Masterminds have wanted changes for years now and been getting them? Just not necessarily in ways we agree with?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

See I think we have TONS of power sets already.. What we need is a new look to these powers.

New animations are great! Especially for sets like Dual Pistols so the player can stop playing a circus trick shot performer acting as a hero or villain! Same with new weapon models.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

I played this game since day one.. They are long in the tooth for someone like me.. 

Congratulations. I've been playing that long too.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Further there are themes but you would have to go Dark / Dark.. Fire / Fire.. for example..

Says who? I mix and match elements all the time. Whatever fits the character. Fire-wielding mutant? Maybe he or she backs up their mutations with gadgets. Fire/Devices. Or maybe I make an Energy/Atomic Manipulation character for a cosmic feel. Or an Assault Rifle/Darkness Manipulation for an outer realms hunter character. Or... pick something. You never have to go Dark/Dark, Fire/Fire, Assault Rifle/Devices, or whatever. You make the character concept. You find the powers that fit that concept. The power sets may not have the specific powers you want, but guess what? They do exist. And in the case of you wanting earth animations for Plant Manipulation? With the exception of two powers, just using a brown color on Plant Manipulation makes it look like the character throws some sand or dirt and the earth twists up a tendril of ground to seize the enemy. (I tried it. It works. There are just 2 powers in the set where the plant still obviously looks like plant.)

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

But the point you are missing is creating new animations for existing powers creates a pool of animation for future NEW powers.. 

Why would you think I was missing that? I'm all for new animations. As long as they don't have one power set step on an already existing one for what its theme is.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

They get a college intern..

Unless you want this argument to devolve again, we are not rehashing this.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

If you read the post from the Devs on the walking animation as I mentioned you would understand they need the actual original animation to make changes.. If they don't have it, the cannot change it.. 

Is there a point in this comment relevant to the discussion?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Again Dual Pistols is bullets. 
Crey pistol temp.. 
Munitions mastery cryo freeze ray.. 
Both are not shooting bullets. 

Sure, but Dual Pistols lets you shoot ice bullets, which can just as easily be freeze blasts. Where are you going with this?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

Blasters have 14 Primary and 15 Secondary.. You have 210 options !..  That isn't enough for right now? 

Again, where are you going with this? You highlight the sheer diversity and then ask if it is not enough?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

You want new when the old is still lacking.. 

What is lacking?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

How about you fix what you already have

Always happy to have problems in the game fixed.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

AND then move onto something new..

You commented that the game is long in the tooth, and then say to not make anything new? I'm having a really hard time following your logic.

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

So what you are  basically saying is creating drastically alternate animation to EXISTING sets is not good.. That it MUST BE for a NEW set.. 

Now who is putting words in whose mouth?

 

2 hours ago, plainguy said:

So if you want a laser PISTOL it has to come from a new set called Laser Pistol..  

Nope. If you want devices, use the Devices power set. Don't make Plant Manipulation into Devices. New weapon models that fit into a given power set are always welcome. (Edit: Of course, if you want that pistol to shoot beams of energy rather than bullets, incendiary projectiles of some type, chilling projectiles of some type, or toxic/acidic projectiles of some type; then yeah, new power set please.) (Edit again: I take that back. Beams of energy would work just fine for the incendiary part of Dual Pistols.)

Edited August 18, 2022 by Rudra

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Not relevant.

 

Wrong. It's clear you don't like people's ideas. Fortunately, no one is under any obligation to please you.

 

 

[Rudra]

We are not debating the forums. You are again taking something out of context. I am disinclined to rise to the bait. You are done. Congratulations. I've never bothered ignoring anyone on the forums before.

[Riverdusk]

I may be in the minority, but I don't care that much about pet customization.  Would it be nice to have? Sure.  But if the same dev time gave me whole new powersets to play with, I'd take that instead.  Or even just making some needed adjustments to the class and/or powersets that we have.

 

Heck, knowing how hard it is to code/animate a brand new pet set, probably biggest bang for the buck would be to get more new support powersets.  Maybe ones with a slight pet bias to them somehow, or at least ones designed with MM's in mind.  Things like not using up power slots on "ally only" +recharge buff powers,  which of course don't help pets at all.

 

My most desired is actually a full spectrum resistance buffing set that also has extra slows/controls to it.  Basically the resistance buffing version of /time or /cold domination.  Personally I love slows and extra control, especially when playing something like robots or thugs that tend to send mobs running.   Nature is close thanks to entangling aura, but not quite there imo.

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Riverdusk

[Megawatt]

On 8/18/2022 at 3:57 AM, Riverdusk said:

I may be in the minority, but I don't care that much about pet customization.  Would it be nice to have? Sure.  But if the same dev time gave me whole new powersets to play with, I'd take that instead.  Or even just making some needed adjustments to the class and/or powersets that we have.

 

Heck, knowing how hard it is to code/animate a brand new pet set, probably biggest bang for the buck would be to get more new support powersets.  Maybe ones with a slight pet bias to them somehow, or at least ones designed with MM's in mind.  Things like not using up power slots on "ally only" +recharge buff powers,  which of course don't help pets at all.

 

My most desired is actually a full spectrum resistance buffing set that also has extra slows/controls to it.  Basically the resistance buffing version of /time or /cold domination.  Personally I love slows and extra control, especially when playing something like robots or thugs that tend to send mobs running.   Nature is close thanks to entangling aura, but not quite there imo.

 

like grenade launcher or 'Tac Radio' biased towards Merc MM's theme wise any way?

[plainguy]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:57 PM, Rudra said:

Not relevant.

 

I never said what customizations you could should or could should not have. I argue for logic. Because again, even comics use logic. It's not slapstick cartoons.

I also argue to use what we already have that does what people say they want.

 

Of course not. Devices is devices. A Blaster power set for those characters that want to have an array of gadgets as a power set. Plant Manipulation being made into Devices is what I am against.

 

I fully understand that. Of course I take things literally. That is not an issue I have. It is the only way I can function.

 

Nope. I repeat the things others say and present my arguments for or against. No twisting involved. Just presenting your comments to you as I understand them.

 

YES! Something we agree on!

 

So... Masterminds have wanted changes for years now and been getting them? Just not necessarily in ways we agree with?

 

New animations are great! Especially for sets like Dual Pistols so the player can stop playing a circus trick shot performer acting as a hero or villain! Same with new weapon models.

 

Congratulations. I've been playing that long too.

 

Says who? I mix and match elements all the time. Whatever fits the character. Fire-wielding mutant? Maybe he or she backs up their mutations with gadgets. Fire/Devices. Or maybe I make an Energy/Atomic Manipulation character for a cosmic feel. Or an Assault Rifle/Darkness Manipulation for an outer realms hunter character. Or... pick something. You never have to go Dark/Dark, Fire/Fire, Assault Rifle/Devices, or whatever. You make the character concept. You find the powers that fit that concept. The power sets may not have the specific powers you want, but guess what? They do exist. And in the case of you wanting earth animations for Plant Manipulation? With the exception of two powers, just using a brown color on Plant Manipulation makes it look like the character throws some sand or dirt and the earth twists up a tendril of ground to seize the enemy. (I tried it. It works. There are just 2 powers in the set where the plant still obviously looks like plant.)

 

Why would you think I was missing that? I'm all for new animations. As long as they don't have one power set step on an already existing one for what its theme is.

 

Unless you want this argument to devolve again, we are not rehashing this.

 

Is there a point in this comment relevant to the discussion?

 

Sure, but Dual Pistols lets you shoot ice bullets, which can just as easily be freeze blasts. Where are you going with this?

 

Again, where are you going with this? You highlight the sheer diversity and then ask if it is not enough?

 

What is lacking?

 

Always happy to have problems in the game fixed.

 

You commented that the game is long in the tooth, and then say to not make anything new? I'm having a really hard time following your logic.

 

Now who is putting words in whose mouth?

 

Nope. If you want devices, use the Devices power set. Don't make Plant Manipulation into Devices. New weapon models that fit into a given power set are always welcome. (Edit: Of course, if you want that pistol to shoot beams of energy rather than bullets, incendiary projectiles of some type, chilling projectiles of some type, or toxic/acidic projectiles of some type; then yeah, new power set please.) (Edit again: I take that back. Beams of energy would work just fine for the incendiary part of Dual Pistols.)

Who says it isn't slapstick ?

Have you gone to the costume creation page? 

No one said pant manipulation should be devices.. Where did I say I wanted smoke grenade in plant manipulation. Again you live in your own world and if something does fit in your world its bad or no good.  And I mean that in real life as well as in game.. 

It is clear from other post on this forum, you are just looking to debate everything. 
It is clear from your comments it has to fit some contrived notion that you have in your head on how a superhero game should be.. 
that you responded to everything as you do shows there is something off with you.

 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

Who says it isn't slapstick ?

It being a super hero/villain game with serious themes and missions tells me it isn't slapstick.

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

Have you gone to the costume creation page? 

Somehow I've been playing the game all this time and never once been to the costume creation page, obviously. (That is sarcasm, just to be clear.)

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

Where did I say I wanted smoke grenade in plant manipulation.

You didn't say you wanted smoke grenades in Plant Manipulation. You said you wanted device effects/animations for it. That means you want the set to be its own version of devices. And we already have a /Devices set for the AT. You want to play a character that uses devices and gadgets? Then use the power set built specifically to do so. That is why the power set exists.

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

It is clear from other post on this forum, you are just looking to debate everything. 

Then you haven't read my posts. I debate a lot of suggestions, yes. I also support suggestions.

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

It is clear from your comments it has to fit some contrived notion that you have in your head on how a superhero game should be..

In that a super hero game should make sense and follow the aesthetics of the genre? Yes.

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

that you responded to everything as you do shows there is something off with you.

I am allowed to agree with or disagree with any person or idea I wish. You are now crossing into personal attack territory.

[lemming]

10 hours ago, plainguy said:

No one said pant manipulation should be devices

New set: Pants Manipulation

 

You can shrink them to cause mobs to at least be slowed

Embiggen them so they fall down to the ankles causing mobs to trip.

[battlewraith]

11 hours ago, plainguy said:

It is clear from other post on this forum, you are just looking to debate everything. 
It is clear from your comments it has to fit some contrived notion that you have in your head on how a superhero game should be.. 
that you responded to everything as you do shows there is something off with you.

 

Of all the committed naysayers you are likely to run across in this suggestion forum, he is the worst. Other people will argue about game mechanics, balance, etc. He's literally arguing his subjective take on themes and comic book genres. Even worse, after pages of debating requests there is still not a clear indication that he even understands those requests. Someone says "I want darkness effects with plant manipulation animations" and he blandly responds "just roll a plant manipulation character."  Asking the devs to create brand new animations for a set is fine with him. Simply asking them to repurpose animations that already exist from other sets is forbidden... for reasons that are locked away in his brain somewhere.

[plainguy]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:30 AM, Rudra said:

It being a super hero/villain game with serious themes and missions tells me it isn't slapstick.

 

Somehow I've been playing the game all this time and never once been to the costume creation page, obviously. (That is sarcasm, just to be clear.)

 

You didn't say you wanted smoke grenades in Plant Manipulation. You said you wanted device effects/animations for it. That means you want the set to be its own version of devices. And we already have a /Devices set for the AT. You want to play a character that uses devices and gadgets? Then use the power set built specifically to do so. That is why the power set exists.

 

Then you haven't read my posts. I debate a lot of suggestions, yes. I also support suggestions.

 

In that a super hero game should make sense and follow the aesthetics of the genre? Yes.

 

I am allowed to agree with or disagree with any person or idea I wish. You are now crossing into personal attack territory.

Lets agree to disagree.

[eldriyth]

So I see my thread of several weeks ago is still going.  How about we actually get some information on when masterminds are going to get some love?  There is nothing wrong with taking some ideas from thunderspy, stop acting like you're re-inventing the wheel.

[UltraAlt]

17 minutes ago, eldriyth said:

So I see my thread of several weeks ago is still going.  How about we actually get some information on when masterminds are going to get some love?  There is nothing wrong with taking some ideas from thunderspy, stop acting like you're re-inventing the wheel.

 

The DEVs aren't paid.

They volunteer to run and support a game that many of us love.

They program and work on what interest them and what they think they can accomplish for the good of the game.

 

You are insulting those that are providing for us a greatly loved game environment for many of us.

You are in no place to demand anything or make insinuations about what is easy and what is not.

 

Private servers have branched off in different directions and the sections of code aren't plug-and-play.

From what I hear the ThunderSpy script isn't as tightly written and parts of Homecoming have changed the original coding so that codes from the other private servers don't necessary work well with the changes that Homecoming has already made.

 

Perhaps if you think ThunderSpy is so great, you should go play over there. 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by UltraAlt
wording as usually - I'll start proofreading before posting soon(tm)

[eldriyth]

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

 

The DEVs aren't paid.

They volunteer to run and support a game that many of us love.

They program and work on what interest them and that they can can think they can accomplish for the good of the game.

 

You are insulting those that are providing for us a greatly loved game environment for many of us.

You are in no place to demand anything or make insinuations about what is easy and what is not.

 

Private servers have branched off in different directions and the sections of code aren't plug-and-play.

From what I hear the ThunderSpy script isn't as tightly written and parts of Homecoming have changed the original coding so that codes from the other private servers don't necessary work well with the changes that Homecoming has already made.

 

Perhaps if you think ThunderSpy is so great, you should go play over there. 

You want to know what's truly a volunteer project? Warhammer Return of Reckoning. That team has never taken a single dime from a single soul.  This place takes over 5 Grand per month with people willingly just throwing money at them.  I'm sorry, but these servers do not cost anywhere near 5 grand a month to run. I know this from personal experience. Stop using that as an excuse, as these people here actually like the game and are here because they enjoy CoX. They need to get somebody who actually likes Masterminds, understands them and their weakness, and make them a lot better and more fun to play. Get them and every other AT into the meta. I'm absolutely sick of all the excuses people like you toss out. More effort needs to be put into this project. Plain and simple.

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, eldriyth said:

Stop using that as an excuse

 

Create your own server and program it yourself it you want it and know better than everyone else.

I've heard enough out of you.

[eldriyth]

37 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Create your own server and program it yourself it you want it and know better than everyone else.

I've heard enough out of you.

You are once again making excuses for the team here. They plain and simply should know and do better.  Creating your own project is like George Lucas watching his own movies. Doesn't have the same effect. You just wish somebody would get it. And I'll be honest thunder spy devs do indeed get it.  This homecoming needs Devs like thunderspy.  Or people just need to go and play there because they need more players.  And the main reason for that is because homecoming may severely lack creativity and balancing, but they are downright epic in everything else.  By no means am I saying homecoming is a piece of crap.  They have come out with some pretty cool things.  I wouldn't even be typing this if I didn't care about homecoming and its future.

Edited September 1, 2022 by eldriyth

[Astralock]

3 minutes ago, eldriyth said:

You are once again making excuses for the team here. They plain and simply should know and do better.  Creating your own project is like George Lucas watching his own movies. Doesn't have the same effect. You just wish somebody would get it. And I'll be honest thunder spy devs do indeed get it.  This homecoming needs Devs like thunderspy.  Or people just need to go and play there because they need more players.  And the main reason for that is because homecoming may severely lack creativity and balancing, but they are downright epic in everything else.  By no means am I saying homecoming is a piece of crap.  They have come out with some pretty cool things.  I wouldn't even be typing this if I didn't care about homecoming and its future.

Yes, play on Thunderspy and enjoy the overtly anti-Semitic and racist remarks on their Discord server.  Thank you, but no thank you.  Tried it a while ago and bailed shortly after, after seeing stuff like that on their Discord server.  Nope, I’m good.  It’s a shame, because the Thunderspy developers are indeed talented and I like what they’ve done.

 

Also, I recall one particular City of Heroes rogue server admin bragging a couple of years ago that his server expense was only about $200 per month, alluding that the Homecoming staff was profiting off of donations.  Except that server never had more than a couple dozen or so people on it concurrently, and didn’t have a beta server.  Also interesting to note that it had no security and had no backups either, and had to shut down as a result.  Coincidence that it was so cheap in comparison, I am sure.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, eldriyth said:

 And I'll be honest thunder spy devs do indeed get it.  This homecoming needs Devs like thunderspy.  Or people just need to go and play there because they need more players.  And the main reason for that is because homecoming may severely lack creativity and balancing, but they are downright epic in everything else.  By no means am I saying homecoming is a piece of crap.  They have come out with some pretty cool things.  I wouldn't even be typing this if I didn't care about homecoming and its future.

So you are recruiting for Thunderspy with this thread then? You are giving conflicting signals here. Basically "Go play on Thunderspy because it is better than Homecoming, but Homecoming rocks way better than Thunderspy!" Huh?

Edited September 1, 2022 by Rudra