archetype suggestion Archetype Suggestion: The Duo

[malonkey1]

Hey guys, guess what I just got working?

 

 

 

Did you guess primaries?



If so, you guessed right!
 

 

 

I still have a lot of work to get the secondary powersets put together, just because they're going to be more complex and have more moving parts, but I'm almost at the point where I can say it's ready to be properly tested.

Edited August 5, 2019 by malonkey1

[malonkey1]

I got the secondaries up and running.

 

The first set I want to show you all is Natural Instinct, a mashup of Regeneration and Nature Affinity with a Dire Wolf pet. And yes, I did ass a bloom effect to the powers I pulled from Regen, so you can amp up Reconstruction while supporting your allies.

 

I have more to show you guys later, but it's almost 4AM where I am right now, and I think it might be better to record a video for you all to see instead of me typing in a half-dead stupor and misspelling every other word, so be on the lookout for that in like, I dunno, a week? Two weeks?

[Zepp]

On 7/29/2019 at 12:38 AM, malonkey1 said:

I used a precompiled version that Ouroboros provides.

 

Instructions here.

If you want to make custom content, you'll also need to set up your server to make bins (instructions here, you may need to get a login on the Ouroboros discord.)

Alright, I finished editing those eight books, proofing two more, updating three websites, and am waiting for some help for setting up the app, so I went to try this. How do you get a login for the Ouroboros discord?

[Jeuraud]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:09 PM, malonkey1 said:

The Duo's Inherent Power is Partnership. As long as the Duo and their pet are within 60 feet of each other

I see this as a Melee centric AT (Batman & Robin), is this how you see this AT?

If so, I think 60 feet is too long. I think there are going to be a lot of Duoist trying to play at 60ft with their range attacks, and then getting butt-hurt because their Secondary PBAoE buffs are not effecting their Partner. I think 40 feet would be a better number.  To short to be range effective, long enough to keep the Duoists buffed with Partnership, even if the Partner takes off after a runner.

 

I don't figure your planning on reducing the range on the Ranged attacks... right?

 

On 6/7/2019 at 1:09 PM, malonkey1 said:

Sample Secondary: Netherforce

I think the Secondarie's Heals needs to be brought up into the #2 spot. They are of more value in the early game than Armors and Debuffs, which require SO level Es before they really start shining.

 

 

[malonkey1]

4 hours ago, Jeuraud said:

I see this as a Melee centric AT (Batman & Robin), is this how you see this AT?

If so, I think 60 feet is too long. I think there are going to be a lot of Duoist trying to play at 60ft with their range attacks, and then getting butt-hurt because their Secondary PBAoE buffs are not effecting their Partner. I think 40 feet would be a better number.  To short to be range effective, long enough to keep the Duoists buffed with Partnership, even if the Partner takes off after a runner.

I don't figure your planning on reducing the range on the Ranged attacks... right?

Well, the point of using Assault primaries was specifically so players could choose a more ranged playstyle if they wanted. Some of the pets are stronger in melee, some are batter at range, and I wanted people to be able to choose their powers accordingly: Running up close while the pet fires from a distance, mixing it up in combat next to your melee pet, letting your pet get in close while you lay down covering fire, etc.

 

I'm not planning on reducing the range of their attacks right now, but due to being a fairly durable class, they're likely not going to stay too far back anyway.

4 hours ago, Jeuraud said:

I think the Secondarie's Heals needs to be brought up into the #2 spot. They are of more value in the early game than Armors and Debuffs, which require SO level Es before they really start shining.

The version in the first post is not the current version. The version I actually have running does have the support powers moved up some and more evenly mixed in.

[Demon Shell]

It's cool stuff for sure. Don't know about Wild Growth and Wild Bastion though. Might end up making a Regen that's stronger than a Regen.

 

I understand Regrowth probably isn't a good choice because it's an ally cone for an AT that might be entirely melee. Maybe drop Bastion for Entangling Aura? It would be an expensive extra toggle, but you would have Lifegiving Spores to bolster Endurance management. Have you considered giving one or two of these sets an ally rez (like Rebirth)? You wouldn't be able to use it on your pet but it would certainly have some utility in a group.

 

There's also the possibility of going into another pool. Spirit Tree from Plant Control would fit the theme very well. Spore Burst could provide a moment/stagger alpha-strikes to help give Regen breathing room to do its thing (plus its one of the non-damaging sleeps, which means you can stack it).

[malonkey1]

26 minutes ago, Demon Shell said:

It's cool stuff for sure. Don't know about Wild Growth and Wild Bastion though. Might end up making a Regen that's stronger than a Regen.

Yeah, You might be right there. I might see about toning down the scale on those, or I might switch them for other powers entirely.

Quote

 

I understand Regrowth probably isn't a good choice because it's an ally cone for an AT that might be entirely melee. Maybe drop Bastion for Entangling Aura? It would be an expensive extra toggle, but you would have Lifegiving Spores to bolster Endurance management.

I might take a look and see if anything from Plant control might be appropriate like you mentioned below.

Quote

Have you considered giving one or two of these sets an ally rez (like Rebirth)? You wouldn't be able to use it on your pet but it would certainly have some utility in a group.

I think two of them have an ally rez. Hellfire Aura actually has a modified RotP that acts as self rez when you're down and ally rez otherwise. I still have to test to make sure it works, though.

[Demon Shell]

I just had a thought. What about some version of Power Boost for Natural Instinct that also enhanced Regeneration? That would tie the Regen and healing effects together. Plus it would enhance the Endurance return from Lifegiving Spores (and any other secondary effect you have on your primary).

Edited August 7, 2019 by Demon Shell
Grammers

[malonkey1]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:59 PM, Demon Shell said:

I just had a thought. What about some version of Power Boost for Natural Instinct that also enhanced Regeneration? That would tie the Regen and healing effects together. Plus it would enhance the Endurance return from Lifegiving Spores (and any other secondary effect you have on your primary).

Well, Natural Instinct brings Bloom in with it, which does enhance healing received. It doesn't enhance regen directly, but it does make Reconstruction a lot more effective, as well as Lifegiving Spores. I suppose I could modify it so the Duo version of Bloom applies a regen enhancement, but I think that might be edging toward the cottage rule by changing how the power fundamentally works.

 

As far as any updates on my progress in building the dang thing, I haven't really been up to much due to a spot of ill health. I'm fine now, but I just haven't been feeling up to doing much. I may set up my server for outside access to test the archetype properly at some point in the near future, once I figure out how the heck to do that, but right now I don't have much else to add.

 

That said, here's what's been done, and what's yet to do:

 

• Basic Archetype stuff: Stat tables, power set categories, etc. (Working)
• Primary powersets (Working but mostly untested)
  • Electricity Assault has been tested to some extent, but other sets remain untested.
  • All sets valid (no major errors when building bins)
• Secondary powersets (Working but mostly untested)
  • Netherforce has been tested to some extent, but other sets remain untested
  • All sets valid
• Inherent (working but with an asterisk)
  • Inspiration sharing and bodyguarding are hard-coded for Masterminds and their pets only, so extending that to the Duo would require a few changes to the source code. I think I know what needs to be done, but it's being a you-know-what about building, so I'm not wrestling with it until further down the line.
  • Also, fun fact: A lot of the stuff that's supposed to be in your "inherent" is actually hidden in the actual powers or hard-coded. The Blaster's damage boost is written into the individual powers in their powersets, as are the Tanker and Brute's "inherent" taunt abilities. And the Dominator's inherent is actually made of six different subpowers that all work together, making it the most complicated inherent of them all.
• Ancillary Pools (Some Working, mostly untested)
  • I've tested one of the ancillaries, but the rest are not.
  • I have not yet put together their patron power pools.
• A whole bunch of detail stuff:
  • Boostset inclusions so the game knows what enhancement sets go where (Not done at all, and boy is that gonna be time consuming.)
  • Making proper message stores for everything instead of using native strings like some kind of dingus: Basically, all the text in the game is stored in files called message stores, and the game refers to them. This is probably to make localization easier, by putting all the strings in one place. I foolishly did not follow this, and instead took the fast way by using just plain strings right in the definition files, and I must one day atone for that so the mapserver will quit kvetching at me. Pity me, for I am stupid.
• Actually testing this stuff (not yet done)
• Actually making it reasonably balanced (quiet laughter in the distance)
• Icons and stuff? That a ways off, though.

Edited August 16, 2019 by malonkey1

[Shazbotacus]

I'm really hoping for some kind of rifle assault, possibly in the future. Regular assault rifle with regular bayonet, or a beam rifle with a Vanguard-esque energy one, and blasting the bad guys down with another soldier type at my side would have me make a character for this AT so fast. Given that there's so few gun models with a physical bayonet as part of the model, maybe an energy bayonet would be ideal for both, perhaps as a power customization if possible.

 

There's few melee attacks to work with like this though, just bayonet and rifle butt. If you go the Beam Rifle route you could probably rationalize a third melee attack as a short range lightsaber-esque "plasma cutter," emitting a very short but very deadly magnetically-contained super-heated plasma jet held into the target with the "Heavy Burst" animation. Probably goes through multiple targets in a line like Headsplitter. Typing that down, I must say I've become somewhat attached to that idea.

 

Admittedly, though, my biggest reasoning for hoping for a "beam rifle assault" is because those animations involve actually putting the weapon to the shoulder and aiming at least semi properly.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Shazbotacus

[Zepp]

Congratulations! You are the winner of the Archetype Battle for Supremacy!

[EmmySky]

I just read this entire thread and know I am late to the party but WOW I would so play this toon! 

 

Malonkey1...I hope you are doing well and still have this on a burner even if its a back one.  

[malonkey1]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:39 AM, EmmySky said:

I just read this entire thread and know I am late to the party but WOW I would so play this toon! 

 

Malonkey1...I hope you are doing well and still have this on a burner even if its a back one.  

It's still on a burner. I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff right now, and I don't really have a lot that I can test on my own, but I have done a few things, so I've been really quiet.

[colemyboe]

This is my favorite idea for a new AT, and I love how much work you have out into it. It would be awesome if someone (not specifically you since I know you are busy enough 😛)could put together a short guide on how to access and edit this information. I know it's a lot to ask, but it would be awesome in helping out others fleshout their own ideas for ATs or other ideas. I have peaked at the code and know it's pretty overwhelming, so I'm not holding my breath lol.

 

Anyway, I love what you have done with this and I look forward to whatever else you come out with!

[malonkey1]

Okay, checking in because the last time I posted here was over a month ago.

 

Progress:

 

Primary and Secondary Powers: Mostly Workable. A few powers not doing quite what they're supposed to, but I'll be able to hunt those down.

Epic Pools: Working.

Patron Pools: Not done yet. They're probably going to resemble the Corruptor versions.

Inherent Power: Working.

Enhancements and Sets: Working, boostsets have been defined for the powers and work normally.

Archetype Enhancements: Not done. Waiting until I can get some real testing done before I jump to that.

 

Power icons: They look kind of rough, and a more trained hand will want to go over them, but they get the point across.

 

 

The powersets are as follows:

Primary:

• Dark Assault
• Earth Assault
• Electricity Assault
• Energy Assault
• Fiery Assault
• Icy Assault
• Martial Assault
• Psionic Assault
• Thorny Assault

The secondaries are as follows:

• Hellfire Aura: Combination of Fiery Aura and Thermal Radiation plus Demon pets.
• Mental Projection: A psychic-themed set with a special twist that I'll post more about when it's not super late at night.
• Natural Instinct: A combination of Nature Affinity and Regen with a Dire Wolf pet
• Nether Force: Dark Armor/Dark Miasma with the Lich as a pet
• Ninjitsu: A farily straight port of the Stalker Ninjitsu with some tweaks, and the Jounin pets
• Robotics: Traps plus some Force Fields, with the Assault Bot pet
• Streetwise: A twist on Willpower with the addition of some Leadership-themed powers and the Bruiser pet
• Super Serum: Invulnerability plus Poisons with the Commando pet

Epic pools:

• Shadow Mastery:
  • Living Shadows
  • Petrifying Gaze
  • Dark Consumption
  • Haunt
  • Soul Drain
• Arsenal Mastery
  • Web Grenade
  • Cryo Freeze Ray
  • Sleep Grenade
  • Surveillance
  • LRM Rocket
• Blazing Mastery
  • Ring of Fire
  • Char
  • Consume
  • Bonfire
  • Melt Armor
• Energetic Mastery
  • Energy Transfer
  • Focused Accuracy
  • Physical Perfection
  • Conserve Power
  • Power Boost

beyond that, not a lot to report. Mostly tweaking stuff in between trying to wrestle with the i24 code with Ouroboros. But speaking of wrestling with code, having access to the code to make modifications means I can do a few neat tricks, which I'll tell you guys about in the morning.

 

And I fully intend to make this available to Homecoming and any other servers, should they be interested.

[Zepp]

Great news!

Also, wondering if you could try putting together a new Assault set, something like this...

On 9/15/2019 at 3:45 AM, Zepp said:

Thus, my proposal is:

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Curse	Corruption	1	Ranged (40'), Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Lash of Hellfire	Lash	2	Melee (20'), High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Charred Sky	Rain of Fire	4	Ranged (40') (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Helltouched	Scorch	10	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)  -Res
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Brimstone	Summon Demon Prince (sans Prince)	28	Ranged (40') (Location AoE), Moderate (Fire/Toxic), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Foe -Res
Infernal Strike	Crack Whip	35	Melee (20' Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	38	Ranged 40' Hold, Location AoE Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Summon Living Hellfire (2s Mag 6 hold, unenhanceable)

I mean, just for practice, if you have time. I mean this would be a great compliment to the Hellfire Aura set, but it is, of course, up to you. I have been meaning to put up a server to test on my own, but have been insanely busy the past six months.

[MetaVileTerror]

Don't forget an Assault Set similar to the Wolf Spider stuff (Single Shot, Burst, Bayonet, Pummel) to pair with the Commando, and if possible a Blades Assault (combine Dual Blades with the Knife Throwing stuff from the likes of the Snakes) to pair with the Ganger.

[malonkey1]

9 hours ago, Zepp said:

Great news!

Also, wondering if you could try putting together a new Assault set, something like this...

I mean, just for practice, if you have time. I mean this would be a great compliment to the Hellfire Aura set, but it is, of course, up to you. I have been meaning to put up a server to test on my own, but have been insanely busy the past six months.

 

8 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Don't forget an Assault Set similar to the Wolf Spider stuff (Single Shot, Burst, Bayonet, Pummel) to pair with the Commando, and if possible a Blades Assault (combine Dual Blades with the Knife Throwing stuff from the likes of the Snakes) to pair with the Ganger.

Those are certainly both good ideas, and I will probably do that, but first, tell me if you guys see anything odd about this Phantasm pet?

 

[colemyboe]

That's amazing! I can't believe how fleshed out this all is. You have done awesome work.

 

I would love to play test this class if you ever want to do a private test server for balancing and what not.

 

Great work, I can't wait to see what's next!

[EmmySky]

I cant tell from here, is that phantasm blasting the enemies away from my melee'r?  Hehehe....great work, wish I could play that NOW! 

[MetaVileTerror]

Your Phantasm is you, I see.  Good work!

Henchpet customization, here we come!

[Steampunkette]

I eagerly await the chance to play an Energy/Robot/Energy character.

 

She will be an Android with a Partner Bot. She's smaller and energy-blasty, he's huge and missile-filled!

[malonkey1]

26 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Your Phantasm is you, I see.  Good work!

Henchpet customization, here we come!

Not precisely customization.

 

What I did do, though, is I figured out how to make powers that can summon commandable Doppleganger pets, and can optionally set them to use any villain definition instead of using the summoner's powers. In this case, it's referred to the Phantasm pet's definition file, hence the phantasm VFX. It is a code change, but it's a fairly small one, and I don't doubt that Homecoming could easily implement it if they felt that it was worth including.

 

If you want to see pet customization, Bubblewrap on the Ouroboros team has been doing stuff with that.

[Zepp]

4 hours ago, malonkey1 said:

 

Those are certainly both good ideas, and I will probably do that, but first, tell me if you guys see anything odd about this Phantasm pet?

 

Nice, is that from the Mental Projection set? What did you do for armor powers?

[FDR's Think Tank]

This Duo Archetype would be an excellent chance to play with some "Epic Powerset" options that tie directly into CoH's lore.

 

For Instance:

What if one of the Summon/Support sets was "Priesthood of Stheno"?

-Your Duo Summon could be a Snake partner!

-You could have Mastery over Venom.... so something Similar to the Mastermind Support set.

-Snakes would recognize you as an ally and you wouldn't get snake hunting missions, since you couldn't be trusted to very well follow through with any of it.

 

Just some thoughts on this.

 

~On a more mechanical level, I couldn't find it mentioned... 

 

The Mastermind gains pets as they level up. While I understand there are two "Upgrade" abilities that are tied to your primary rather than the Pet Secondary, I am still curious: Does the Duo Pet have some sort of upgrade process where as you level up, the Partner gets bigger? Or does it START off as the Major summon and scale from there? Maybe an example will illustrate my point:

 

A level one Robotics Duo: Does it, like a Mastermind, start off with the basic little robot, then upgrade it to Protector Bot when Mastermind gets their second bot? Or Do you start OFF with the Giant Assault Bot? 

 

Another way to look at this is like this: the Ranks for NPC mobs go like this: Underling*, Minion, Lieutenant, Pet**, Boss, Elite Boss, Arch Villain/Hero, Monster, Giant Monster

*Underlings are like Rikti Monkeys, I think... tiny guys that only pose a threat because of their great numbers, making them cannon fodder for AoE.

**Pet class is for the summons of Non-Masterminds like Dominators and Controllers. I think it has less protections against effects, but has more hitpoints/damage to make up for it's chaotic and uncommandable nature. Masterminds can summon Minions, Lieutenants, and a Boss.

Obviously, unless you do something special like have a Duo with a growing mob of weakling creatures, we can throw out Underlings.

So do you start with a minion and work your way up to your partner being an Elite Boss or, gasp, an Arch? Or does he start off as a Boss and just scale from there?

 

Either way, you could probably balance it. I am just curious what the model you are working from does?

 

 

~Also, since the Upgrades are from the Primary Powerset... are they simple buff effects, or do they uniquely alter the Duo Character when activated? It would be interesting to see a Gun Assault Set that arms a Lich with an American Civil War era Gatling Gun or something. Obviously, that's wild dreams category... but we can hope!

Edited November 19, 2019 by FDR's Think Tank