What do the devs want (what what what what)?

[Nurvus]

Trying to wrap my head around this. To be hyperbolic, you're basically saying that one shouldn't give negative feedback because every proposed change is for the betterment of CoH? I don't think the devs want that tbh. Like I'm sure they'd love to make changes that everyone loves but absolutely no game devs have accomplished that. But yeah, we should be appreciative of their work for sure. However, I really do think that they want both kinds of feedback as long as it's constructive. If I've learned anything from the feedback threads over the past couple of days, it's that's we (the players) could definitely do better at the "focused" in "focused feedback." 😬

[Clave Dark 5]

12 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 They are probably going to want to influence the game towards a direction where they continue to enjoy playing the game themselves.  With that assumption, I'm frequently going to ask myself who the decision makers are and how do they like to play.

I would like to point out, my pedant sense is tingling!, that this assumes they don't attempt to look any further than the end of their own noses.  I would like to think better of them, and that they do consider what the unwashed masses of our fair city and unfair islands have to say.

 

And maybe sometimes they just act randomly too, who can say.  Devs move in mysterious ways. 🤷‍♂️

[Stormwalker]

3 hours ago, Nurvus said:

Trying to wrap my head around this. To be hyperbolic, you're basically saying that one shouldn't give negative feedback because every proposed change is for the betterment of CoH? I don't think the devs want that tbh. Like I'm sure they'd love to make changes that everyone loves but absolutely no game devs have accomplished that. But yeah, we should be appreciative of their work for sure. However, I really do think that they want both kinds of feedback as long as it's constructive. If I've learned anything from the feedback threads over the past couple of days, it's that's we (the players) could definitely do better at the "focused" in "focused feedback." 😬

 

I don't think that's quite what he meant.

 

What I think he meant is, "Let's assume the devs have good intentions and are doing what they believe is best for the game," rather than ascribing malice to them as I have seen some people do in the feedback threads.

 

There's a lot of difference between saying, "Let's trust that the devs have reasons for doing what they are doing and that they think those reasons are for the good of the game and community as a whole" and saying "Let's trust that the devs are always right."  

 

We should, of course, give feedback.  Even the best devs have blind spots - everyone does - and our feedback gives them additional perspectives.  But we should also endeavor to be patient and constructive with our feedback and not just rage because our toys are being taken away.  There's a lot of raging going on in some of those feedback threads.  Some of it by people who don't seem to have done any actual testing at all and are operating purely on assumptions (see: the attack type changes thread).  And all that raging just makes it harder for the devs to actually pick out the useful responses from people who actually have been testing things and have a solid basis for their feedback.  That's not helpful.

 

Let's endeavor to be helpful with our feedback, and try to look beyond our own immediate perspectives to the bigger picture as we do so.

[Sanguinesun]

15 hours ago, Luminara said:

They want real Chicago-style deep dish pizza.  Supreme.  Dripping with cheese.  Some parmesan sprinkled on top.  2" thick garlic-buttered crust.

 

They also want it delivered to me.

 

I hate you.  Truly and deeply I hate you.  I haven't had a good Chicago style pizza in over 20 years and I miss it.  

[Bionic_Flea]

1) Yomo, you are obviously an evil very bad man . . . dog . . . whatever.

2) Devs are humans (presumably) and as fallible as the rest of us.

3) The Devs are not monolithic.  They have different things they like and want to move forward on and sometimes those things are very different.

4) They really do listen to feedback and can be convinced to change.  But just because they listen it doesn't mean they will change just to appease loud voices.  Logic, reason, and data work much better than rage and tantrums.

5) Dammit.  Now I want deep dish pizza.

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Nurvus said:

Trying to wrap my head around this.

 

[KaizenSoze]

I feel the most important thing is to test the changes. Don't just read the patch notes and try and figure it out in your head.

 

As a software developer I value test results over abstract ideas about how things should have or how they must be, because that's how the player sees it their head.

 

Use the beta server copy feature and test! The dev did respond to feedback, see the AE vet exp changes.

[The General]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:48 AM, KaizenSoze said:

see the AE vet exp changes.

Can you post a link to the changes they made to the update?

[Ukase]

On 7/19/2022 at 1:08 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

maybe we should accept that they are aimed at making this experience a better place for all of us?

I wrote a lot of silly banter below, but ultimately it's just hard to trust the direction when they don't tell you the direction they want to go before they do the work. I visit the forums fairly often. Aeon and it's changes may have been on the test server for quite some time. All that work, all that effort, and we don't learn about it until it's on test - after hundreds of hours of effort go in creating it. If they're going to be transparent, they should share this direction before they do the work. What's the hoped for outcome? How do they see this bit of work aiding to move in that direction. And is that direction the player base wants to go towards? Can they really trust the voice of 10% of the population that visits the forums? 

******************************
Silly banter below: 

That's impossible, I think. We're all too different, as partially evidenced by the explosion in the AE feedback thread. 

Some folks just want AE to be razed. Removed. They feel the "product" from AE, typically level 50 players doesn't measure up in "common game knowledge" - how to get to PI, Cimerora, etc. 

Some folks don't so much mind AE, but they would rather the folks that farm a great deal stop farming so much and team with them in mainstream content. One could make the argument that if 10% of the farmers were to show up for a given iTrial, you could then form additional leagues. (that may be an exaggeration) 
Unlike me, (and I'm super happy if you're not like me, because I can be a real grumpy fellow) some folks only log in specifically to team up. They have more patience than I do, they never met a character with a horrible name or an ugly costume. Whereas I am always judging everyone for their badge count (or lack of) their naming convention or lack of, build, powersets/AT chosen, and typing skills. I'm just really horrible, right? And yeah, I'm kidding, but only a little bit. I never look at costumes because even with my new graphics card, all the costumes look about the same when I'm zoomed out. 

Some folks would prefer to never leave AE. A Malta Sapper draining their endurance bar isn't their idea of fun. Having to retoggle? That just sucks. I get it. The Tsoo siphoning all your speed...where's the fun in that? You just want to burn stuff, and maybe smash it with a giant sword to the noggin! 

And some folks....very few folks...well maybe just me... I have a hard time trusting people I don't know. I have an even harder time trusting people who want me to avoid conversations about politics, Covid - all the fun stuff! How am I supposed to determine who I'm going to enjoy playing with if I can't have real conversations and everything has to be superficial? I fully understand that some folks can't discuss these things without getting super-heated and upset. And because of folks like that, our devs chose to limit these outbursts. I get it - but it makes it hard to know who they are and who everyone else really is. Conservative? Liberal? It's an opportunity to learn other perspectives I might not ever come across, given the vast cultural diversity we have in this game. 

Add to that, there can be no mistake - at least one GM thinks if you have pineapple on a pizza, your character avatar shall be remade in the image of a trash can. The only reason my avatar was restored was because it was discovered that the trashcan form was impervious to harm. Or so the story goes. 
************************
So, yeah, I'd love to trust that they know best. They certainly know code better than me. But I don't think they know what I want in game better than me. Further, they certainly don't seem to care about what I don't want in game. And that is because, it shouldn't matter solely about what I don't want. The game doesn't revolve around me. I just want to be heard, ultimately, and more importantly, if the direction goes in a path I did not foresee, nor immediately appreciate, I want to know why. I want to understand what the objective was, and if much thought went into other ways of gaining the same outcome. 
 

[The General]

7 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I just want to be heard,

The good news is that seems to have happened! Veteran experience rewards have been returned to AE for Level 50's.

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, The General said:

Can you post a link to the changes they made to the update?

Look for Veteran Experience rewards.

[cranebump]

What do they want? Hmmmm let’s ask them: