If you were going run PI radios a lot. What build would you use?

[Andreah]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

According to this at least there are some Malta to be found in a few of the location radio missions (bank, pawn shop, police station) in PI

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Police_Radio

 

Not sure if they are available in the other rescue, get object, or defeat boss radio mission types though.

 

Hrm. There are Malta that show up inside the Bank Safeguard missions.

 

They may show up in those "Stop the Robbery" missions now that I think of it.

 

But that subtype of radio missions are pretty rare. All of the regular PI Radios are Council, Circle of Thorns, Arachnos, or Carnival of Shadows.

[Andreah]

I looked over the Wiki article, and using their nomenclature, the Boss, Object retrieval, and Rescue missions are very common, and in PI are only ever Council, Arachnos, Thorns, or Carnies. The Heists and Assault Prevention missions have those other groups as possibilities, but don't come up as often in the mission offerings.

 

If you have any specific preference for mission types, it's pretty easy to avoid the groups and types you don't want. 

 

You are offered three choices. You can read the titles and descriptions most all the time to determine which group it will be. Except those Heist missions, which are easy to identify too. If you choose a mission, you can determine if it might be a cave by looking at where it is on the map. There are only certain doors which can open to cave missions (and even those never do so for Council). If no choice is acceptable, you can just choose any of them and abandon the mission.  Then check the radio again and there's a fresh RNG-roll of three new options. Rinse and repeat until you get the ones you want. 

 

Most commonly people do that for Council, and will even advertise the group like that: "54 PI Council Radios LFM". On my server this means the group is going to run max difficulty council radios and anyone is welcome. The leader will just refresh the list until it's council. Worst case is a rescue in a sewer. No carnies intangibility, no night widows blinding everyone, no tight blue tunnels or giant layercake cave rooms, etc.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Hmm, just PI Radios? Probably a proc'd out Rad/Dark Tank. Resist everything, and Soul Drain + Ground Zero = dead mob every time. You can pick up Focused Accuracy so you never have to worry about being blinded by Arachnos or -Tohit from CoT.

[Andreah]

I like PI radios / Granville papers for leveling lowbies, my own and others', because you can get more player to player interaction. It's not hard content, but it is content, and you can have a team talking to each other. It's also good opportunities for people to try out their powers while leveling in an environment where, say, a task force isn't at risk. The setting is low-pressure and people will even casually roleplay in it.

[Without_Pause]

8 hours ago, Krimson said:

Um... I clearly said Melee Hybrid, did I not? 

Still not the equivalent of actual taunt auras.

 

To the topic on hand, if I want to run brain dead radios, I would bring something like Rad/stone or maybe /bio Brute, Plant/ta Controller, or a Fire/kin. At that point people are mostly there to be my audience. 

[High_Beam]

I am still new to tanking, I had one back on live and wasn't very good at it so I promised myself when I joined HC that I would be better.  I use Radios (all levels) to practice my tanking.  First I set the Diff up as much as I can take and solo them so I can learn get better at corner pulls and herding and watching my aggro cap as well as just getting a general feel of tanking.  Then I host, so I can get better at steering the group i.e. not letting crazy blasters like I was jump ahead and super aggro everything get killed and yell "why aren't u tanking".  I am not quite up there myself (tank not level enough yet).  However the group I run with tends to stay consistent with Council (S/L) which works quite well with Invulnerability on a tanker even when they are conning level 54.

[America's Angel]

Fire/Fire Blaster.

[KaizenSoze]

One toon I have been testing that is working shockingly well is my Ninja/Trick Arrow Mastermind.

 

So much debuff that rarely anyone dies and lowbies appear to be able to hit things.

 

The ninjas do plenty of damage that I don't have to manage too much. If there is any addition support toons in the team, the ninjas never die.

 

I ran a team for more than 45 mins yesterday. I lost 5 pets the whole time.

[Andreah]

1 hour ago, High_Beam said:

I am still new to tanking, I had one back on live and wasn't very good at it so I promised myself when I joined HC that I would be better.  I use Radios (all levels) to practice my tanking.  First I set the Diff up as much as I can take and solo them so I can learn get better at corner pulls and herding and watching my aggro cap as well as just getting a general feel of tanking.  Then I host, so I can get better at steering the group i.e. not letting crazy blasters like I was jump ahead and super aggro everything get killed and yell "why aren't u tanking".  I am not quite up there myself (tank not level enough yet).  However the group I run with tends to stay consistent with Council (S/L) which works quite well with Invulnerability on a tanker even when they are conning level 54.

Just from what you say here I'd put you in the Top Quarter of tankers. There's quite a few who don't seem to realize being super-survivable isn't all there is to being on a tank. 

 

Doing radios with a group with fragile, vulnerable, easily overwhelmed lower levels is an excellent training ground for tanking skills. I've even been on teams with two (or more) tankers practicing both herding and anchoring simultaneously. 

 

If you occasionally throw in some of the other enemy groups, you also let everyone on the team get a sense for how they deal with other kinds of threats.

[ZemX]

48 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

First I set the Diff up as much as I can take and solo them so I can learn get better at corner pulls and herding and watching my aggro cap as well as just getting a general feel of tanking. 

 

Tanking PI radios is easy, especially if it's just Council.  Only the Marksmen (snipers) typically refuse to huddle up to the tank so if you have a few seconds ahead of the rest of the team when jumping into a spawn, you can often have them in a nice tight bunch for AoEs when the team reaches you.

 

No need for herding or corner pulling.  It's usually fastest and safest to one-at-a-time these spawns right where they are standing.  Corner pulling is generally only beneficial on maps where enemies are widely spread out or reluctant to collapse on the tanker's position.  Praetorian maps with Clockwork, PPD, or Resistance are notorious for being spread all over the place and using only ranged attacks.   For them, any corner or object you can use to break LOS after aggroing helps as they will stubbornly refuse to close in on you even when Taunted.

 

Herding (i.e. pulling more than one group to the team at a time) is often a bad idea if the team has a lot of sidekicks.  To the point of this thread, if the idea is to carry a lot of lowbies for powerleveling... just don't do it.  One spawn at a time is "The Way".   You otherwise risk spilling over the aggro cap and making paste of the squishies.

[Andreah]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

Herding (i.e. pulling more than one group to the team at a time) is often a bad idea if the team has a lot of sidekicks.  To the point of this thread, if the idea is to carry a lot of lowbies for powerleveling... just don't do it.  One spawn at a time is "The Way".   You otherwise risk spilling over the aggro cap and making paste of the squishies.

That's one way to look at it, sure. However, I tank radios differently. I keep an eye on my team's health and endurance, and so long as those are holding up, the group is staying together, and no one is asking for us to slow down, I will herd as much as possible onto them.

 

When the group is forming, and as we trade out for new members, I inspect the levels, powersets and set bonuses of the people on the team to get a fair idea of the overall capability. I also bring plenty of team health, health/end, defense, and defense/res inspirations, many kept in my email. If the team is getting in trouble, that's on me as the main tank, and I not only have the responsibility of slowing us down, but also of getting us immediately out of that trouble. I bring tools and resources to do that.

 

The response I get from this is usually very positive -- it can turn the slow, steady "radio-farming" mode into a fast paced, high intensity team adventure. 

 

And most of the time, due to shared buffs and debuffs, the lowbies contribute to that meaningfully. 

[Ukase]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:08 AM, KaizenSoze said:

We have plenty of thread discussing the page 4 changes. I don't want to talk about that here.

 

Assuming page 4 going forward as is. I expect more teams running PI radios for power leveling.

 

What toon would you use to run PI radios? Not just council, but all possible enemy groups in PI radios.

 

Things I am considering when deciding on a toon:

• Durability to handle most or all of the aggro
  • This could be thru high defense/resists or massive debuffs
• Enough damage to complete missions in a reasonable time with sub 50s on the team
• -defense or toHit, so lowbies can hit +5 mobs
• -resists, so the lowbies can do some damage to +5 mobs
• Buffs or healing to keep the lowbies alive
• Things I haven't thought of...

 

What are your favorite toons to run PI radios to help level others?

I don't have a favorite. I've probably done 5 radios since HC opened. Might do 5 more before they close. I don't think more folks will do radios; I think they'll adapt to how AE changed and keep moving forward. 
 

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

it can turn the slow, steady "radio-farming" mode into a fast paced, high intensity team adventure. 

 

If doing what I described is "slow" then you're doing it wrong.   Ideally the team doesn't stop moving and someone is always starting the next fight while the last one is mopping up.   It goes as fast as the team can kill.   Pulling mobs to the team isn't necessarily faster.  You might gain some efficiency if the team has good AoE but you're still dealing with pulling slow-jogging mobs halfway across a map.   You might only have time to pull two or three spawns in before you have to move anyway.

 

Which one anybody finds more "fun" is subjective.  Personally, I find playing meat-grinder in a single location to be pretty dull.   But if I'm being honest, PI radios are the last place I go for "adventure" anyway.

[KaizenSoze]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

 

If doing what I described is "slow" then you're doing it wrong.   Ideally the team doesn't stop moving and someone is always starting the next fight while the last one is mopping up.   It goes as fast as the team can kill.   Pulling mobs to the team isn't necessarily faster.  You might gain some efficiency if the team has good AoE but you're still dealing with pulling slow-jogging mobs halfway across a map.   You might only have time to pull two or three spawns in before you have to move anyway.

 

Which one anybody finds more "fun" is subjective.  Personally, I find playing meat-grinder in a single location to be pretty dull.   But if I'm being honest, PI radios are the last place I go for "adventure" anyway.

At this point I would suggest posting videos to show the differences. Not saying you're right or wrong.

Just hard to get context of what people consider fast or slow.

 

A Rad tanker does seem like a good idea. The -defense is really needed for the lowbies to hit.

 

Having been a lowbie many times. The constant missing is frustrating.

[Omega-202]

Herding is slow and inefficient on PI radios.  Ideally, if you're leading as a Tank, take Fold Space.  Instant herding without the wait, and the largest area aggro grabber in the game.  Everything instantly in your taunt aura and prime for AoEs.

 

If you're killing slower, FS is up every spawn.  If you're moving fast, it's up every other spawn and you probably have Judgement to aggro grab the down spawns and can just give them a second to clump.  

 

To the point about lowbies missing or feeling unable to contribute...that's not going to change whether they hit or not.  At -5, they're doing 30% damage, 30% debuffs, 30% mez duration, etc.  It takes more than two -5 players to even contribute the same as a base 50+1 (65% efficacy against +3) with the same powers and slotting.  And that's ignoring the greater slots, powers and incarnates that a true 50+1 has.  

 

When I'm lowbie'ing on a PI radio, I just go along for the ride and provide what I can.  I don't think it's reasonable to expect that the whole team will run Tactics so I can plink away 12 damage attacks.  

[High_Beam]

It's nice to see different ways of doing the same thing.  Now when I am not tanking a radio I love to bring my DP/MC Blapper with all that secksi AoE ripping things up while the tank keeps aggro and there in lies the rub, running vs being a productive part of.  Putting holes in enemy faces (and other parts) is just Awe-Some!  And that mini-skirt . . . so cute.

[Andreah]

10 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Herding is slow and inefficient on PI radios.

I disagree. If herding is slowing you down, it's not being done very well. For example, if the tank is asking the team to wait at a specific location while the tank gathers up mobs, that's certainly kind of slow, even though I've known tanks who're good at it, with all the right keybind instructions set up and so forth.

 

However, efficient dynamic herding can double or triple the speed a strong team moves through spawn groups, and will accelerate any team significantly, provided they can steamroll single spawn groups. Basically, in any fight your team has AoEs that are not hitting their target caps on a single spawn group; and some powersets have fixed area buffs that are inconvenient, especially for lowbies, to relocate to another spawn. The solution is to bring the spawns into those AoE's at a rate just high enough to keep them saturated, but not so high it overwhelms the team's ability to sustain itself. And the tank does not choose the herding points -- the team does. Wherver the team is focusing its firepower, that where the tanker brings the herd.

 

12 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Ideally, if you're leading as a Tank, take Fold Space

And I use Fold Space too.  I use it to deposit my current herd into the team's concentrated AoE so I can quickly shed that aggro to go get more.

 

39 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

At this point I would suggest posting videos to show the differences. Not saying you're right or wrong.

I get that, but I don't record or post videos.

 

I also expect herding tactics to undergo some evolution with the Page 4 aggro changes. I'm excited to see how much.

[ZemX]

8 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

At this point I would suggest posting videos to show the differences.

 

There wouldn't be much value in trying.  Killing through one spawn at a time works on any team and is easy to speed up or slow down based on how fast the team is killing.  Herding only works if the team can both survive without you and yet kills slowly enough that you have time to pull mobs across a map onto them.  Or maybe you tank the fight while someone else pulls in groups.  The limiter in that case is the mobs themselves.  Pulling mobs is just as annoyingly slow as dragging hostages to a door.  They move at less than Sprint speed in most cases.   I'm sure someone could come up with a very specific team where doing this would be faster than hopping spawn to spawn and then post a video of it.  I'm just not sure it would prove anything worth knowing.  I would say, start by assuming you'll fight through and if it happens you notice the team is sturdy but slow?  Try the herding.  See how it goes.

 

17 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

A Rad tanker does seem like a good idea. The -defense is really needed for the lowbies to hit.

 

Having been a lowbie many times. The constant missing is frustrating.

 

I have more experience with Tankers than Brutes.  I'd just worry that Tanker might not be great on the bosses and that could slow you down a lot, though again, only if you're carrying the whole team.  If you have even one other 50 with you who does better than tank damage... it's not a problem.   Brutes are a bit less tough than Tankers but survivability is a binary.  If you have enough, having more is no difference.

 

The -defense will help some, but you may find tweaking the +level notoriety is better.  If the team can't kill quickly enough, it might gain slower XP on higher settings than on lower.

[KaizenSoze]

1 minute ago, Andreah said:

I also expect herding tactics to undergo some evolution with the Page 4 aggro changes. I'm excited to see how much.

From what I have tested, it will be easier to herd when groups are close. They won't wander off if they are a patrol for instance.

 

On a full team, it won't matter a lot, plenty of aggro to go around. Small team or solo, it will be noticeable with more incoming fire.

 

Initial pulls of large rooms might be a bit more exciting.

 

No more using the aggro cap to only have to fight 17 at a time when there are three close groups solo.

[Andreah]

4 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Initial pulls of large rooms might be a bit more exciting.

 

There are a few radio maps where this could be an issue, and especially with pets that may not be well controlled by their player.

[TheZag]

I'll advocate for a bio armor tank.  I use bio/dark melee as my most played character.  Give it a top of the line build and turn on offensive adaptation for extra damage on top of a tanks increased AoE size.  You can even proc out DNA siphon into a decent AoE along side shadow maul, dark consumption and soul drain.  You could also save some money on the build and run with efficient or defensive adaptation instead of building out the extra survivability to run offensive.

 

Overall though,  PI radios arent the most difficult thing in the game and nearly any power combination will work if you are willing to spend to build it out.  I dont think PI radios will rise in popularity above what they are now either.  The AE nerf was quickly reverted on the beta,  some farms will need their enemies adjusted to once again give full xp but thats about it.

 

[Andreah]

I think a few more people may try PI Radios, but the Farms will still far outperform them in terms of payout and leveling speed.

[Omega-202]

@Andreah 

I still disagree because ever second my Tank is running to gather up another spawn is another second I'm not doing damage.  For some tanks, that's not a huge loss, but I build procced to the gills on all of my Tanks.  My current fav being a procced out max offense Rad/Dark that can thin a PI radio 54/8 spawn down to Bosses only in 3 or 4 attacks (Soul Drain>Procced Rad Therapy>Procced Ground Zero>Dark Oblit).

 

Why waste time herding when I'm also usually one of the top damage dealers on the team?  

[Coyotedancer]

3 hours ago, Andreah said:

There are a few radio maps where this could be an issue, and especially with pets that may not be well controlled by their player.

 

Or that flat-out can't be controlled by them (*she says, thinking of her middle nephew's crazy, nut-ball Gremlins*)...

[Andreah]

3 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

I still disagree because ever second my Tank is running to gather up another spawn is another second I'm not doing damage.  For some tanks, that's not a huge loss, but I build procced to the gills on all of my Tanks.  My current fav being a procced out max offense Rad/Dark that can thin a PI radio 54/8 spawn down to Bosses only in 3 or 4 attacks (Soul Drain>Procced Rad Therapy>Procced Ground Zero>Dark Oblit).

 

Why waste time herding when I'm also usually one of the top damage dealers on the team?  

I'm not usually the top damager when I'm tanking. I don't build my tankers focusing on dps at all.  If I did, I would probably agree with you. For example, if I were running radios with a high dps brute/etc, I wouldn't be the one herding. That role would naturally fall to someone else. I've seen sentinels do it quite well, too. 

 

I often run radios on a Kin/ defender. I admit I have sometimes used one of those characters to herd, but it's not something I routinely do expecting to survive. :D  While it's technically possible, with some effort and the right build, it's not a wise use of the character.

 

So of course, any player's best role on PI Radios may vary depending on their build regardless of their AT. My point is that having a skilled herder on your team can be a big plus, and tankers can be very good at it.