The semantics of AE

[cranebump]

With the huge AE Debate thread turning into a discussion of farming, as well as the thread here asking about what folks thought of the new patch that elicited immediate responses about farms, I'm kind of at my wit's end about what I do as a SFMA scripter. By this I mean that farming is so pervasive that AE is evidently synonymous with it. A player hears AE, they think of farms first, everything else second. 

 

It's tough enough being lumped in with farm mishes, which get hundreds of runs as a matter of course, and shove story mishes off the page. Now the umbrella term for both story and farms feels as if it's been usurped completely by the latter. The AE Debate thread wasn't about AE. It was (is) about farms. "AE"=farms. That's where we are now (and maybe always have been).

 

I realize story offerings cater to a different kind of player. But it feels like we can't really carve out a good spot for our own boutique. Instead, we're stuck at the far end of the strip mall, surrounded by big box stores. I guess there's no fix for this. We can label our stuff "SFMA," and see what happens. Lord knows I'll keep writing shit just because I like to do it. But it would be nice if, when AE questions come up, we hoity-toity story designers were in the equation. The Devs do keep us in mind, thankfully, in updates, and there's been some work done toward giving writers a wider variety of tools. But our own store, away from Wal Mart, CostCo, Best Buy, etc., would be welcome.

 

We're a destination restaurant, not a drop-in. We ain't gettin' foot traffic from farmers. I'd like to stay outta of their way and - somehow - get them to stay out of mine. I have no idea how to get SFMAs their own location, but it'd be nice to have one (I know @Darmian gave suggestions on this long ago). 'Til then, I guess it's spreading the word. Which means I should probably yank Josh Jones out of mothballs and do more reviews. 

 

Anyhoo, after that ramble, the question is this: how can we raise the SFMA profile to whittle away at the AE=FARMS! perception (even just a little bit)? How to highlight what writers (let's call them that, as opposed to scripters) do as a viable entity in the CoH experience?

 

One thought I had on this: SG/Player commissions for custom arcs. If it's personal, you get more plays. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by cranebump

[Number Six]

There's some really cool story stuff coming for AE that was supposed to be in page 4 but sadly didn't quite make it in time.

[cranebump]

2 hours ago, Number Six said:

There's some really cool story stuff coming for AE that was supposed to be in page 4 but sadly didn't quite make it in time.

I've seen some of that. It really does sound awesome. Can't wait to check it out when it shows up.:-)

[Ankylosaur]

It's a very old question, so clearly, there is not an easy answer. And it's more than needing filters or a place to play (though adding a "story-only" terminal in the new RP zones could be nifty, or having the Kings Row and Port Oakes AEs be known as the "AE story buildings" or something).

 

I think we should be honest about what may be the problem: Not that many people seem to be looking for original stories from unknown authors. They are escaping to do CoH and are faced with where to spend their time for fun - and they choose something else.

 

It's not like there are loads of people coming to the MA Forums saying - "Where are all the good arcs?!" or "I'd do AE if only there were a story filter."

There are one or two people occasionally, but generally, I suspect Dev's choice answers those questions well enough for those who want to dabble in a story here or there, and even those only get a few plays for the most part.

 

The 801 series shows that some people like to min/max and take on the biggest challenge they can find - that is their fun. Farming shows that some people just like building out characters and are willing to do repeatable stuff to do so efficiently.

 

Honestly, I presumed by now that there would be loads of people who have run through the core content so many times they would want new stuff to do, but evidence suggests otherwise. Most people seem more interested in building out their characters (a creative endeavor of its own) and re-running end-game content to do so. And I think that may be just the way it is.

 

And that is not something software can change. 

[Coyotedancer]

12 hours ago, cranebump said:

We ain't gettin' foot traffic from farmers. I'd like to stay outta of their way and - somehow - get them to stay out of mine. I have no idea how to get SFMAs their own location, but it'd be nice to have one (I know @Darmian gave suggestions on this long ago). 'Til then, I guess it's spreading the word. Which means I should probably yank Josh Jones out of mothballs and do more reviews. 

 

Sorry to ruin your narrative, but be careful about painting with an over-broad brush. Some is us dirty, filthy farmers who are strangling your creativity actually *do* play other things on the AE list. We're not all one trick ponies. 😆

 

As I said in the straw poll thread, the members of my family SG make new arcs all the time. FCM and our nephews have had an absolute blast writing stories and challenge missions for each other. I may be one of your Roots of All Evil, but I still like playing them, too. 

[MistressOhm]

So... why not a keyword or a flag - SFMA | Farm ? 

 

Every published arc would need to choose one or the other.   If coded right (binary 0 or 1), it would take one bit's worth of memory per story to do this.  

 

I have nothing against farming - sometimes I really don't want to grind levels thru the same damn content I ran back in '08 or '09, and a well-done farm mechanic will boost me past those parts.   It also means that when new powersets come out, or ones get tweaked, I can level up a character to see how those sets work (and not feel bad about deleting the character after, if the set doesn't work for me).

 

But, as much as I like running a farm here and there, I have no desire to create one... and as a writer, I would like to get more exposure for those arcs I DO put up for public consumption.  And as @cranebump said, the farms are taking over the listings, and without some way to filter the list, it's damned hard to find story arcs these days.

 

 

[cranebump]

38 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

Sorry to ruin your narrative, but be careful about painting with an over-broad brush. Some is us dirty, filthy farmers who are strangling your creativity actually *do* play other things on the AE list. We're not all one trick ponies. 😆

 

As I said in the straw poll thread, the members of my family SG make new arcs all the time. FCM and our nephews have had an absolute blast writing stories and challenge missions for each other. I may be one of your Roots of All Evil, but I still like playing them, too. 

It wasn't meant as an attack on farms and farming. It was basically I feel like we're tripping over each other. Well, not even that. Story arcs are buried by farms, save for Dev's Choice. It's obscured enough to where it's a very small niche. I'm not sure how to best advocate for that space, but I know we could use it. Don't care if people farm. But farm space is story space, and there's no easy way to get out of the cornfield (so to speak).

 

It's about the situation. Not the people. Sorry if what I said came across otherwise. However, I didn't think it was out line to suggest "AE" is, or seems to be, synonymous with farming. I guess it's all "entertainment," though. And, since it is, I'd like to advocate for this version in a way that's constructive. My framing of the discussion may need some work, though.:-)

 

Let's be clear though -- you ARE the Root of All Evil. And I'm coming for you (like, really subtle and sneaky-like...like a tiny rash).:-)

Edited August 25, 2022 by cranebump

[cranebump]

18 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

So... why not a keyword or a flag - SFMA | Farm ? 

 

Every published arc would need to choose one or the other.   If coded right (binary 0 or 1), it would take one bit's worth of memory per story to do this.  

 

I have nothing against farming - sometimes I really don't want to grind levels thru the same damn content I ran back in '08 or '09, and a well-done farm mechanic will boost me past those parts.   It also means that when new powersets come out, or ones get tweaked, I can level up a character to see how those sets work (and not feel bad about deleting the character after, if the set doesn't work for me).

 

But, as much as I like running a farm here and there, I have no desire to create one... and as a writer, I would like to get more exposure for those arcs I DO put up for public consumption.  And as @cranebump said, the farms are taking over the listings, and without some way to filter the list, it's damned hard to find story arcs these days.

 

 

SFMA=good suggestion, and it is being implemented. Once it was proposed (I don't know by whom), I started flagging all my stuff with it (and I'm far from alone in that). That may be the best we can hope for. I've seen plenty of farms labeled as such, though certainly not all (same with SFMA material). We can add it ourselves, but perhaps a button or switch to auto-flag/sort it?

 

Different subject, but, since I'm going to get back to more consistent reviews, I'd be happy to run your arcs. I have a toon specifically dedicated to just AE. Trying to run him up using just SFMA. He's only L12 at the moment, but he's eager.:-) Recommendations of where I should start on your stuff?

Edited August 25, 2022 by cranebump

[MistressOhm]

2 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Recommendations of where I should start on your stuff?

 

All of mine exemplar up, but only Child of the Tsoo has strictly stock enemies and no EB's.  I'd start with that one, and try the others once you get some levels in and can soak custom EB aggro without faceplanting (or, bring friends).

 

 

[cranebump]

Just now, MistressOhm said:

 

All of mine exemplar up, but only Child of the Tsoo has strictly stock enemies and no EB's.  I'd start with that one, and try the others once you get some levels in and can soak custom EB aggro without faceplanting (or, bring friends).

 

 

I can't faceplant? Damn. You took away my best move.:-)

 

Thanks. I'll put it at the top of the list. Right behind the next thing @Darmian does (no pressure, kemosabe, but, gdamnit, we're waiting).:-D

[Coyotedancer]

I think just putting in something as simple as selectable/searchable tags might help.,, A farm tag. A story tag. A challenge tag... That way anyone could go in, search for the tag and then have a filtered list. 

 

People *could* mis-tag things either accidentally or to be cheeky, but I suspect most folks would use it truthfully.

[Ukase]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:28 AM, cranebump said:

I realize story offerings cater to a different kind of player. But it feels like we can't really carve out a good spot for our own boutique. Instead, we're stuck at the far end of the strip mall, surrounded by big box stores. I guess there's no fix for this. We can label our stuff "SFMA," and see what happens. Lord knows I'll keep writing shit just because I like to do it. But it would be nice if, when AE questions come up, we hoity-toity story designers were in the equation. The Devs do keep us in mind, thankfully, in updates, and there's been some work done toward giving writers a wider variety of tools. But our own store, away from Wal Mart, CostCo, Best Buy, etc., would be welcome.

First, I applaud many of you for trying to create interesting content. You're telling a story, which can be tough to do using the MA system. 

My very best suggestion/advice is to plead with the HC staff to allow the better stories/content to be moved out of AE and into the wild, so to speak. The reason many do not run your stories is because:
1. No idea it exists.
2. The XP is 1/2 what it is in the wild.

3. There are no reward merits.
4. The defeats, debt, influence earned - so many different badges that are tracked by the game - they do not count in AE maps. 

If the "dev choice" winners, say, every quarter, were to have their missions/story arcs moved outside of AE, then people WOULD run it. Perhaps not as often as a Yin or other task forces and story arcs, but when something "new" drops, people will run it. 

[Clave Dark 5]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:38 AM, Number Six said:

There's some really cool story stuff coming for AE that was supposed to be in page 4 but sadly didn't quite make it in time.

Hm, seems I've missed something?  Can anyone drop some annoyingly cryptic teases that reveal nothing concretely yet still get me more curious?

[cranebump]

9 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Hm, seems I've missed something?  Can anyone drop some annoyingly cryptic teases that reveal nothing concretely yet still get me more curious?

Well, I know one thing we were s'posed to see was being able to use the test effect you get in some missions -- text appearing on the screen like "It's an ambush!" or "Ratskeller, this is Positron. Have you found the device?" or "Hurry! Winter is coming!":-) The rest I can't recall specifically. I just remember thinking, "That wound cool." 

 

@Darmian can probably tell you more. I'm wondering if Anky might know, as well.

Edited August 29, 2022 by cranebump

[cranebump]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:42 AM, Ukase said:

My very best suggestion/advice is to plead with the HC staff to allow the better stories/content to be moved out of AE and into the wild, so to speak. The reason many do not run your stories is because:
1. No idea it exists.
2. The XP is 1/2 what it is in the wild.

3. There are no reward merits.
4. The defeats, debt, influence earned - so many different badges that are tracked by the game - they do not count in AE maps. 

Yeah, the rewards issue is a thing, right off the bat. Which really does necessitate moving the better content into the universe. I imagine that's a pretty big job, though. Wonder if that could be done by attaching the content to an in-game contact who "forwards" the mission to you. 

 

EXAMPLE: 

CONTACT: $name! We would use your help in (insert zone here)!

 

Then maybe a mission list, appropriate to level.

 

Or maybe the Dev's Choice stuff gets added to the mission computer? Not sure what it takes to get stuff to pop at an actual mish door. I assume the scripts for actual contact and AE content are different enough that this isn't easy and/or a snap. So, time and effort. And, really, a perceived need for the whole thing. One the one hand, it's free content. On the other side, well, how much content isn't getting run as it is? 

Edited August 29, 2022 by cranebump

[Ukase]

36 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Yeah, the rewards issue is a thing, right off the bat. Which really does necessitate moving the better content into the universe. I imagine that's a pretty big job, though.

I am by no means an expert, or heck, even a novice in what it would take to do this. 

But, I do feel safe making these assumptions: 
1. Creating a contact identical to the contact you (or whomever has an arc deemed worthy) made should be easy, particularly if you send the HC Devs the file the mission is stored on. 

2. The mission need not be "Ported", if that's the right word, just reproduced with the tools they use to make the other new arcs they've created. Or heck, hand over the keys and let the original author create the arc - if it's as easy to use as the MA system. If not, maybe they can just use the same dialogue from the original arc - so it's not like they have to write anything new, just copy the dialogue and such. 

It may be quite a large headache, though. That's certainly possible. But, not sure I see the harm in asking they look into the viability of it. 

[Troo]

@cranebump I would favor a specific contact for player created content. Even a terminal simply with preset filters for Devs Choice could be a decent starting point.

 

@Clave Dark 5 This is the way.

 

[Ankylosaur]

2 hours ago, cranebump said:

I'm wondering if Anky might know, as well.

 

Nope. 🙂 I'm as in the dark as everyone. 🙂

 

 

[Clave Dark 5]

9 hours ago, Troo said:

This is the way.

 

Frankly disappointed that this isn't a "SOON."