Prismatic Aether and locked costume items

[ivanhedgehog]

38 minutes ago, arcane said:

Don’t know why you keep overlooking the fact that they can be purchased on the market. Literally any content can get you these things.

so you are saying the complaint about farming were false? good to know. and buying them? 24 million each? HM tfs blow even marketting out of the water as the absolute by a mile best place to earn rewards. why play anything else? earn any where...2% chance is not a viable way of getting them.

[ivanhedgehog]

16 minutes ago, Astralock said:

 

It’s not condescending.  It’s a fact that many players (of any game), are both lazy and only care about rewards.  Nothing else matters to them.  So you occasionally need to string a carrot.

you are trolling. Insulting your players is not generally considered a good thing.

[arcane]

25 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

earn any where

Earn influence anywhere -> buy on market. 
 

I’ve already purchased several costumes and the accolade with influence from AE farming. You can do literally any content and still get these. Not sure what you’re not understanding.

Edited September 2, 2022 by arcane

[Ruin Mage]

If new rewards were instantly all get-able from the get-go upon their release, then why bother? This isn't a Instant Gratification Game, and non-power rewards don't need to be Instantly All Given to people. Playing the game to earn something isn't as bad as its being made to be.

If you want easy rewards for the least amount of work there are other games (such as Mobile games) out there that do that better.

[Frostbiter]

Just now, Shadeknight said:

If new rewards were instantly all get-able from the get-go upon their release, then why bother? This isn't a Instant Gratification Game, and non-power rewards don't need to be Instantly All Given to people. Playing the game to earn something isn't as bad as its being made to be.

If you want easy rewards for the least amount of work there are other games (such as Mobile games) out there that do that better.

 

Hard pass on the mobile games. I play this one, not sure why you'd bother telling anyone to go elsewhere. Are they attempting to push the content or the rewards here? If the content is not compelling then attempting to further bloat the amount of currencies earnable is a stopgap measure. How many currencies do we need? Do we need Incarnate Shards and Incarnate Threads and Empyrean Merits and Notices of the Well? Things like that create a confusion of how do I earn what and where do I earn it. It's a trap that puts people off of games IMO.

[Ruin Mage]

Those were designed by Paragon Studios as part of the Incarnate System. Can't exactly do much about them without the monumentous task of attacking the Incarnate System and how it works.

I make mention of going elsewhere because you can't get everything in a game right upon its release. Its rather common game design even for all the QOL you can get. You still need to do content to earn salvage, influence, experience etc - so a currency for an optional set of NPC-based costume powers is by far the least of any worry in my opinion. Putting the most earning behind a new system of content as well is pretty common as well - but these costume powers aren't really going anywhere - they're not rare or in limited edition.

The influence cost of them is starting to settle or lower to more reasonable prices.

If the Aether puts people off, then oh well. I don't have a good solution to that or an answer - as I agree with their implementation and use.
 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Sakai]

8 hours ago, Ukase said:

In fact, I'm one who generally uses the RNG costume generator, and then will generally replace the head and remove the tail

Sadly the times I use the Random option this is all too true. 

[golstat2003]

9 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Those were designed by Paragon Studios as part of the Incarnate System. Can't exactly do much about them without the monumentous task of attacking the Incarnate System and how it works.

I make mention of going elsewhere because you can't get everything in a game right upon its release. Its rather common game design even for all the QOL you can get. You still need to do content to earn salvage, influence, experience etc - so a currency for an optional set of NPC-based costume powers is by far the least of any worry in my opinion. Putting the most earning behind a new system of content as well is pretty common as well - but these costume powers aren't really going anywhere - they're not rare or in limited edition.

The influence cost of them is starting to settle or lower to more reasonable prices.

If the Aether puts people off, then oh well. I don't have a good solution to that or an answer - as I agree with their implementation and use.
 

 

The solution is to wait for the devs to datamine just how many folks are getting and adjust costs as needed.

 

As this new currency just came out folks just need to be patient. I find a 2% chance to be a bit low for anyone who wants these items and doesn't want to do the hard mode content.

 

Other solution is just wait for the costs for them to go down on the market as has been mentioned.

 

EDIT: With that said I hope the devs avoid the currency bloat that many other MMOs have fallen into. Last I counted Champions Online for instance has about 15-20 different types of currency for different rewards.

Edited September 3, 2022 by golstat2003

[Luminara]

On 9/1/2022 at 12:50 PM, Frostbiter said:

 

 I got a stick. Hey I just got an idea for a great game! You throw your rock and I'll try to hit it with my stick!

[tsoper]

This currency shows that the devs have long term goals for the game. They can also tweak it in the future by expanding the supply (higher drop rates, more per drop, or more ways to earn it) and the demand (more desirable costumes, collection hoarding, and more that I may not think of). As a new currency, it prevents direct hoarding prior to release. However, because you can buy them, you can indirectly hoard them through influence. But that will cost a lot more right after release, and much less as time passes. Yes, too much new currency can be bad. But we are talking about only one added since HC started. They just now released it and have set up the focus to be on their new release of hard modes, which they should be promoting their hardwork on. They opted to allow some other methods of earning it by doing content that they want more people to do (content outside AE, but even farmers can earn thru influence). And yes those alternate methods to earn rewards SEEM low (consider those burning through PI radio missions), but they are not the current primary focus.

 

They did say they were considering changing costs on yet to be released costumes. Hence, they have begun considering tweaks to their brand new system. I have faith that the HC devs listen to THE BEST community of any mmo game and that they have lots of compassion for this great game. Give them some time to adjust the supply and demand. Nobody is perfect, especially right out of the gates. And they will need feedback, hopefully in positive ways, from all of us. So please continue with ideas and feedback.

 

I am excited to see long term goals and not immediate satisfaction through handouts. I shy away from hardmodes and haven't done a single one. I have 45 50s and over 250 leveled alts. I play my own way and feel no need to dictate others in how they should play. I enjoy playing trials, TFs, iTrials, MSRs, hami, radio missions, story arcs, AE stories, AE farms, nemesis farms, other farms, base construction, costume contests, chatting in AP, and even some light roleplaying. The devs ARE volunteering to develope a game with so many different ways to play, enjoy, and have fun within.

 

And yes, it may take forever to get mini mod for the 20+ little pixie characters I have. But I will give the HC devs a chance and TIME to implement and tweak this new system.

 

As some feedback, I hope the devs do shift this system to reward for doing their new content each time a page is released, and I hope more embrace this as an alternative to AE. I play AE a lot and don't want it to go away. I do want other areas of the game to be just as rewarding, but in different ways. This new currency CAN possibly help with that.

 

Edit: Went back to OP and to make sure I keep on topic, I do feel bad for having costume options (mini mod and blob mod) locked behind this system. But they are really nice rewards, and systems need awesome rewards to make them worthwhile. Otherwise nobody would care to participate in the new currency system. I am glad they created an exciting reward that isn't more power creep.

Edited September 3, 2022 by tsoper

[El D]

The core decision behind Prismatic Aether being a reward from Hard Mode content is that Hard Mode needed an incentive beyond standard rewards (badges, merits, etc.) to get folks to run them more than once. There's no point to designing content that ends up as a 'one and done' and then sits there not being engaged with, which is what would have happened if all Hard Mode gave was stuff players could more easily get via standard task forces. NPC Costume powers fall precisely into the niche of 'Doesn't lock Costume Creator pieces behind any walls' and 'Isn't locking actual numerical boosts behind any walls.' They're a purely cosmetic reward to showcase personal investment, either through running Hard Mode content or having a bunch of Inf. Either way they reward long-term playtime and the investments players made leading up to Hard Mode content (having fully IO'ed out builds, fully finished Incarnate stuff, experience with game mechanics, etc.).

 

It's a fun extra to incentivize trying the challenge (or serve as a money sink for folks who otherwise have nothing to dent their Scrooge McDuck-esque swimming pools of influence with).

Edited September 3, 2022 by El D

[Frostbiter]

If you have no interest in HM Content (which is kind of find funny, the community asked for it so they have to create a further enticement to get the community to run it?) then just getting the badges for the PAP system would take 7500 mission completions on average. 150 PAPs at a droprate of 2% or 1 in 50 missions. I'm sure I'll get there eventually but seeing it as a destination? Not moving me. It bothers me a little that we have a game were you can do and play just about anyway you want and do any content you want and be rewarded but now suddenly the Devs are trying to create funnels for the playerbase. If we are spread out running a variety of content then I see that as a good thing. It means none of that other content is irrelevant.

[arcane]

32 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

If you have no interest in HM Content (which is kind of find funny, the community asked for it so they have to create a further enticement to get the community to run it?) then just getting the badges for the PAP system would take 7500 mission completions on average. 150 PAPs at a droprate of 2% or 1 in 50 missions. I'm sure I'll get there eventually but seeing it as a destination? Not moving me. It bothers me a little that we have a game were you can do and play just about anyway you want and do any content you want and be rewarded but now suddenly the Devs are trying to create funnels for the playerbase. If we are spread out running a variety of content then I see that as a good thing. It means none of that other content is irrelevant.

Continuing to ignore their availability on the market is just dishonest at this point in the thread.

[Troo]

 

What's Aether?

 

Does it help my character more than those inspirations I don't regularly use?

 

[El D]

2 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

If you have no interest in HM Content (which is kind of find funny, the community asked for it so they have to create a further enticement to get the community to run it?) then just getting the badges for the PAP system would take 7500 mission completions on average. 150 PAPs at a droprate of 2% or 1 in 50 missions. I'm sure I'll get there eventually but seeing it as a destination? Not moving me. It bothers me a little that we have a game were you can do and play just about anyway you want and do any content you want and be rewarded but now suddenly the Devs are trying to create funnels for the playerbase. If we are spread out running a variety of content then I see that as a good thing. It means none of that other content is irrelevant.

 

If they don't spur you to do Hard Mode content - or spend the Influence on them - then that means you can readily live without them. Which is precisely the other half of what the PAP/Hologram Costumes are designed to serve as, given that they're basically just 'extremely visible bonus badges.' There are no numerical advantages, no 'If I don't get these, my character isn't as good as they could be' like with the Incarnate system. The PAP stuff isn't the innate goal of the Hard Mode content like those powers are for iTrials, they're just an extra goodie bag folks can earn. Some players certainly will run HM content solely because they want the PAP/costumes, but that's a personal choice at that point - their own determination of 'Do I want this purely optional extra enough for it to become my primary motivation.'

 

Also, as @arcane and others have said, you can still buy them for Influence and skip Hard Mode altogether. Yes, they're expensive, but if they were cheap that'd just undermining what status they had as 'extra investment bonus' from the HM content to begin with. 'You pay more for the convenience' has been Rule #1 in the Auction House from the get-go (well, Rule #2. Rule #1 is 'Always double-check for extra zeros when making a purchase').

[ivanhedgehog]

11 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

The solution is to wait for the devs to datamine just how many folks are getting and adjust costs as needed.

 

As this new currency just came out folks just need to be patient. I find a 2% chance to be a bit low for anyone who wants these items and doesn't want to do the hard mode content.

 

Other solution is just wait for the costs for them to go down on the market as has been mentioned.

 

EDIT: With that said I hope the devs avoid the currency bloat that many other MMOs have fallen into. Last I counted Champions Online for instance has about 15-20 different types of currency for different rewards.

Part of the problem is that the devs just shifted the entire game economy. When you can get close to a billion inf for doing one 4 star TF there is a problem. they just crowned the new kings of inf. It certainly looks like they have a heavily favored activity. By the time they "datamine" if they chose to do it, the game will be tilted in that groups favor. we were told that farmers having too much inf was "bad" a few months ago. Looks like thats not actually the case.

[MoonSheep]

5 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Part of the problem is that the devs just shifted the entire game economy. When you can get close to a billion inf for doing one 4 star TF there is a problem. they just crowned the new kings of inf. It certainly looks like they have a heavily favored activity. By the time they "datamine" if they chose to do it, the game will be tilted in that groups favor. we were told that farmers having too much inf was "bad" a few months ago. Looks like thats not actually the case.

 

prices are likely to reduce over time, however it is entirely right that the hardest content/highest risk should offer the most reward

 

the problem with AE farming for many of us in the community is that the lowest risk / lowest effort activity offered the highest reward - hard mode ITF offering meaningful gain is a huge step in the right direction for city of heroes the MMORPG

 

AE farmers have been largely unscathed by the new patch, it’s a win all round

[Troo]

@MoonSheep I'm disagreeing to some extent.

 

Offering such high rewards to players with the most expensive builds could be a rich get richer scenario that is effectively punitive to more casual players. That's a valid concern.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 

What's Aether?

 

Does it help my character more than those inspirations I don't regularly use?

 

 

It's what special bunnies are made of.  Like chocolate.  Think Peeps, but made of aether.  And naked.

[MoonSheep]

16 minutes ago, Troo said:

@MoonSheep I'm disagreeing to some extent.

 

Offering such high rewards to players with the most expensive builds could be a rich get richer scenario that is effectively punitive to more casual players. That's a valid concern.

 

i would argue that there’s no need to have expensive builds - teamwork and proper team composition more than makes up for IO sets

 

my kin defender is mostly common IOs and one or two mixed IO sets and still does great on hard mode TFs / speedruns

 

hard mode TFs need active leadership to build the right team, it’s given support ATs and team tanks a new lease of life which is a really exciting change. at present, every AT is any AT which is a bit bland

[Ruin Mage]

37 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

When you can get close to a billion inf for doing one 4 star TF there is a problem.

No longer a thing on Everlasting, not sure about other shards.

The concern over market price is entirely in the player's hands, and as far as the Best Shard goes? It's now no longer AS ludicrous as it was.
 

 

20 minutes ago, Troo said:

Offering such high rewards to players with the most expensive builds could be a rich get richer scenario that is effectively punitive to more casual players. That's a valid concern.

Even the most expensive builds here are nothing compared to live. Purples and PVP IOs are 100x more accessible now for example. So are AT IOs and the Winter IOs. The only enhancement that I think will remain high priced are specific DSyncs from Aeon.

But again shard to shard based if I remember right.


4-Star doesn't need The Best Builds In The Game.

[ivanhedgehog]

43 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

prices are likely to reduce over time, however it is entirely right that the hardest content/highest risk should offer the most reward

 

the problem with AE farming for many of us in the community is that the lowest risk / lowest effort activity offered the highest reward - hard mode ITF offering meaningful gain is a huge step in the right direction for city of heroes the MMORPG

 

AE farmers have been largely unscathed by the new patch, it’s a win all round

you want to be playing wow, not city of heroes. They are set up exactly like you want. the devs should change the name to city of heroes HM. COH has NEVER been a game about gatekeeping the lesser players to the cheap seats. This is all about changing to City of Hardcore.

[ivanhedgehog]

13 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

No longer a thing on Everlasting, not sure about other shards.

The concern over market price is entirely in the player's hands, and as far as the Best Shard goes? It's now no longer AS ludicrous as it was.
 

 

Even the most expensive builds here are nothing compared to live. Purples and PVP IOs are 100x more accessible now for example. So are AT IOs and the Winter IOs. The only enhancement that I think will remain high priced are specific DSyncs from Aeon.

But again shard to shard based if I remember right.


4-Star doesn't need The Best Builds In The Game.

The people on the first day got 100 million each. x 30. everlasting was 24 million a few days ago. x 30 for an ATF.  720 million for 1 run. add in all the other rewards and its well over a billion. you can do this every day. BOOM economy shafted. hm runners can store 48000000000 inf in their salvage trays. you want us to farm at a nerfed rate to make them richer? How much rewards do they need to pile on before its enough to get people to try the tf? If you have to tie a porkchop around a kids neck to get the dog to play with them, you might have a problem.

[Ruin Mage]

Jesus christ man, touch some grass.

It's a game economy not the real economy.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 minute ago, Shadeknight said:

Jesus christ man, touch some grass.

It's a game economy not the real economy.

then wtf was up with the "important" nerfs to AE farming? The same white knights championing those nerfs are here telling us that this is great.