oh, the feels...

[Frozen Burn]

So I don't get all the beef and gripes about the Aethers.  It's pretty simple... Aethers are are worthless unless you want an NPC costume.  They are just like Halloween Salvage (and even Candy Canes) that now drop from various things all year round.  Yes, they started off be being worht a LTO onthe market because there are people out there that HAVE TO HAVE all the NPC costumes and badges NAOW!  ... and they paid for them. 

 

I think most everyone saw the bottom dropping out on the market of these as more Aethers hit the market.  And the price of them will continue to plummet - even with new additional NPC costume items being added later.  Not everyone wants these and I am only collecting them (slowly as they happen to come) on my badger for the badges.  Once I get my 4 shinies, I'm done.  As I collect them after that, i might sell them on the market or save them for a goof costume an alt - maybe.  But, they'll eventually sit in my inventory like all the Halloween salvage and candy canes I have.  

 

I have no problem with the Devs putting this in the game.  It's something new, something different, and some people really like it.  Just 'cuz it's not my jam doesn't mean i'm gonna hate on it.  It does nothing to impact my game play or what i do other than give me 4 more badges to collect - which i enjoy doing.  

 

So again, not sure what the big issue is about Aethers.  Collect them if you want - many paths to get them.  Or don't collect them if you don't want them - and sell them or in a month or so, buy a rando NPC costume on a lark with all that you saved up. 

[biostem]

32 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

So again, not sure what the big issue is about Aethers.  Collect them if you want - many paths to get them.  Or don't collect them if you don't want them - and sell them or in a month or so, buy a rando NPC costume on a lark with all that you saved up. 

It's not so much what they can unlock that's the issue, IMHO - it's that they could have adapted/expanded one of the existing currencies instead of introducing yet another one...

[Grouchybeast]

8 hours ago, huang3721 said:

IMO, that guy who bought it for 180M was a moron. Although rare, PAP has no value compared to other things (enhancement, booster, etc). Why would they do that? 

 

I'm guessing they were a badger who wanted the new badge right now.  And why not?  It's only play money.  What are they supposed to do with it, save it for their retirement?

[Astralock]

9 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

I said in the beta feedback threads I think we need FEWER currencies, not more. This will almost certainly never again be a retail game, yet we seem to be acting like it. I doubt it goes away, but I honestly hope it does.

 

6 hours ago, biostem said:

It's not so much what they can unlock that's the issue, IMHO - it's that they could have adapted/expanded one of the existing currencies instead of introducing yet another one...

 

Here's the deal.  Homecoming has been hemorrhaging players for the past two+ years.  75% of its player base compared to summer 2020 is gone.  Part of the problem (and yes, it's a problem), is that, compared to live, Homecoming gives you everything.  Costumes, (up until now)?  Given to you.  Capes?  Given to you.  Auras?  Given to you.  Supergroup bases?  Given to you.  Incarnate abilities?  Given to you.  Heck, purple IO enhancements, ATOs, PvP IO enhancements, and winter enhancements are practically given to you compared to live.  There was nothing to work towards.  For some casual players, that's great.  But it's a double-edged sword.  There's no stickiness, no investment.  There's nothing to earn to keep people around, and Homecoming has lost players as a result.  Now, we can debate how many of the 75% gone are because there was nothing in game to earn, but it's a fact that at least some of them left because of that.  I suspect a number sizable enough to matter.

 

Homecoming developers tried to put something new in game for people to work towards.  Give them something to earn, something for them to stick around and earn, without negatively impacting casual players.  Letting the costumes be purchased with reward merits or another of the existing currencies would entirely defeat the purpose.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Astralock

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, Zhym said:

And incarnate shards are right there, sitting around with nothing to do after you've built all the Alpha slot powers you need.

What are you on about? I ALWAYS use shards. Why not? Using threads for Alpha is just ..inefficient. I can always get my t-3 using alpha the first day I'm 50. It only takes a few TFs and an MSR and a hami raid. 

I will never understand why some of you bypass shards, and burn threads, making it take even longer for you to get the rest of your incarnate slots finished. But, I guess you folks are running iTrials instead of the other content. For me it's always the opposite. I get more shards than I need, and not enough threads. 

I can see the case for burning some emps to t-3 the alpha asap, but after that...I don't see why you'd do it. But hey, you do you. 
But leave my shards alone. 

[Zhym]

2 hours ago, Astralock said:

Here's the deal.  Homecoming has been hemorrhaging players for the past two+ years.  75% of its player base compared to summer 2020 is gone.  Part of the problem (and yes, it's a problem), is that, compared to live, Homecoming gives you everything.  Costumes, (up until now)?  Given to you.  Capes?  Given to you.  Auras?  Given to you.  Supergroup bases?  Given to you.  Incarnate abilities?  Given to you.  Heck, purple IO enhancements, ATOs, PvP IO enhancements, and winter enhancements are practically given to you compared to live.  There was nothing to work towards.  For some casual players, that's great.  But it's a double-edged sword.  There's no stickiness, no investment.  There's nothing to earn to keep people around, and Homecoming has lost players as a result.  Now, we can debate how many of the 75% gone are because there was nothing in game to earn, but it's a fact that at least some of them left because of that.  I suspect a number sizable enough to matter.

I'd quibble a bit both with the premise that Homecoming losing so many players is a huge problem and with the conclusion that the way to get them back is to add more things to grind for.

 

Yes, Homecoming doesn't have as many players as it had in March 2020.  No surprise there: it was "new" again, and most of us were home all day because of the pandemic.  Homecoming will never have that many players again. 

 

Is that a problem?  Well, I play almost exclusively on Excelsior, where it still doesn't take long for TFs and iTrials to fill.  Hami raids and MSRs are also routinely full.  And of course there's all that content that can be played solo.  If Homecoming's population drops to that of a ghost town, I'll still be incredibly grateful that I could log into that ghost town and play all that solo content that I missed so much after NC Soft took it away.

 

But the loss of players is felt a bit around the edges.  Less popular activities, like Hami Bud "raids" in First ward and Recluse's Victory runs, don't seem to happen as often than they used to.  And we're increasingly reliant on a handful of players who run iTrials on a regular basis.  If @Oklahoman, @STiTcH, and @Confusion got bored with the game and left, parts of the game would practically collapse.  Excelsior would be...well, like most of the other shards.  Fortunately, they don't seem bored with it yet.  And there's plenty of stuff to do even when there isn't a raid or an iTrial going.  By another metric, Homecoming's population is just fine: they're still getting enough donations each month to pay the bills, and getting them fairly quickly.  

 

Homecoming is never going to be the next big thing, even if talks to have legitimate use of the IP eventually resolve.  Maybe it's okay that it's a niche game that a few hundred people love and no one else cares about.

 

But suppose we grant the premise that population loss is bad.  I really don't think it's a lack of locked content or enough things to grind for that's keeping people away.  And adding NPC costumes that are locked behind a new currency isn't going to bring anyone back.  

 

Personally, I think Homecoming's biggest barrier to population growth is that it's gotten kind of unfriendly to new players.  I don't mean "unfriendly" in that we're intentionally hostile and mean when a new player shows up, but the way the game is structured now isn't really newbie friendly.  For example: just yesterday, someone who joined a Hess TF asked how to get to Striga, and it took me a moment to remember the smuggler's submarine and where it is, because what I usually do is use the macro to hop to the Excelsior Transportation Zone base and use a teleporter there.  Until recently, using LFG to get to Cimerora quickly was another piece of arcane knowledge kept from the uninitiated.  And don't get me started again on Homecoming's weird economy, which new players can't possibly be expected to understand unless someone explains it to them.  Someone who wants to try this game they've heard about, where you can be a superhero and fight bad guys, is quickly going to become lost in what Homecoming is now.

 

NPC costumes locked behind a new currency doesn't solve any of that.  In fact, it makes it worse by complicating the game even further. 

 

What would bring more players in?  Beats me, and this post is too long already.  New content is always good, but new content has just turned into the next thing to farm (see: Aeon, which is just full of wonderfulness and challenge but is usually just sped through for the rewards.  The only reason people do the AWESOME Hero 1 fight now is because it rewards Aether...so I guess I'm glad Aether exists, if just for that).  And because I think it's mostly casual players we're losing, adding more hard modes isn't the solution either.  Maybe there isn't a solution.  Maybe that's even okay.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Zhym

[Zhym]

10 minutes ago, Ukase said:

What are you on about? I ALWAYS use shards. Why not? Using threads for Alpha is just ..inefficient. I can always get my t-3 using alpha the first day I'm 50. It only takes a few TFs and an MSR and a hami raid.

Did you miss the part where I said "after you've built all the Alpha slot powers you need?"

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Astralock said:

 

 

Here's the deal.  Homecoming has been hemorrhaging players for the past two+ years.  75% of its player base compared to summer 2020 is gone.  Part of the problem (and yes, it's a problem), is that, compared to live, Homecoming gives you everything.  Costumes, (up until now)?  Given to you.  Capes?  Given to you.  Auras?  Given to you.  Supergroup bases?  Given to you.  Incarnate abilities?  Given to you.  Heck, purple IO enhancements, ATOs, PvP IO enhancements, and winter enhancements are practically given to you compared to live.  There was nothing to work towards.  For some casual players, that's great.  But it's a double-edged sword.  There's no stickiness, no investment.  There's nothing to earn to keep people around, and Homecoming has lost players as a result.  Now, we can debate how many of the 75% gone are because there was nothing in game to earn, but it's a fact that at least some of them left because of that.  I suspect a number sizable enough to matter.

 

Homecoming developers tried to put something new in game for people to work towards.  Give them something to earn, something for them to stick around and earn, without negatively impacting casual players.  Letting the costumes be purchased with reward merits or another of the existing currencies would entirely defeat the purpose.

 

75% of the player base is gone? oh really? 
While I'm sure some folks have left, others have joined in. I have no way of knowing the numbers, and I'm curious where you're getting them from, and how accurate they are. 

Something new in game for people to work towards...what? The prismatic? Who cares about those? The only reason to care about those is the three badges. You think that's what the devs were after? To get us to work towards those three badges? 

While that's possible, that doesn't mean it makes sense or was a good move. 

The reason Jack Emmert wanted people to team up when they played CoH was in hopes that people would form friendships, so that when the game didn't necessarily fill their needs for adventure or fun - the friendships would. 

That's the reason why so many SGs use Discord. Sure, it's a fine tool for challenging content - but the real reason is the leaders of those groups are hoping the goofy jokes or conversation about some strange character called pokeman will keep the people coming back. (I have no interest in this porn character called Pokeman, and I cannot understand why my SG has a channel in the discord just for that. But hey, if that's your kink, no shaming here. ) 

Beyond the people, the single best thing to keep people engaged aren't things to earn, it's new content. Which is tough, really tough, because once you do new content, it's not new anymore. 
After that, the next best thing is a new powerset. 

New currency? Do I have stacks of these? I certainly could - but because I can buy them. But now is not the time for that, because the price is too high - meaning, I can get them more cheaply in the coming days. I wouldn't use them as a store of value like I might a converter or a hero pack. 

Again, while this new currency may have been introduced so that everyone was on even footing, it's flawed logic. I have billions and could have been one to spend all that inf for 150 of those prismatics to get the badges. That's not even footing. I've got the inf. If it weren't for the badge fighting the two robots in the hardmode itf - the only reason to do it is because it's new. Once I get that badge...there's no motivation. It only took 5 runs of 4*Aeon (going for combat dummy) to get those three costume badges. 

So..um...no. It wasn't really a great move. Reward merits would have done the same thing. 

[Oklahoman]

57 minutes ago, Zhym said:

If @Oklahoman, @STiTcH, and @Confusion got bored with the game and left, parts of the game would practically collapse.

 

I appreciate the callout, but I have been really encouraged of late to log in and find new people running a lot of the stuff we tend to run. @BlackSpectre and I cross paths in Ouro a lot, too, both recruiting for different stuff. We have, and will continue to need, current and new leaders running everything from DFBs to sewers to Posis to ITFs to iTrials (and tours to unlock each zone on your Zone teleport) to keep the player base engaged.

 

[Frozen Burn]

41 minutes ago, Ukase said:

75% of the player base is gone? oh really? 
While I'm sure some folks have left, others have joined in. I have no way of knowing the numbers, and I'm curious where you're getting them from, and how accurate they are. 

Something new in game for people to work towards...what? The prismatic? Who cares about those? The only reason to care about those is the three badges. You think that's what the devs were after? To get us to work towards those three badges? 

While that's possible, that doesn't mean it makes sense or was a good move. 

The reason Jack Emmert wanted people to team up when they played CoH was in hopes that people would form friendships, so that when the game didn't necessarily fill their needs for adventure or fun - the friendships would. 

That's the reason why so many SGs use Discord. Sure, it's a fine tool for challenging content - but the real reason is the leaders of those groups are hoping the goofy jokes or conversation about some strange character called pokeman will keep the people coming back. (I have no interest in this porn character called Pokeman, and I cannot understand why my SG has a channel in the discord just for that. But hey, if that's your kink, no shaming here. ) 

Beyond the people, the single best thing to keep people engaged aren't things to earn, it's new content. Which is tough, really tough, because once you do new content, it's not new anymore. 
After that, the next best thing is a new powerset. 

New currency? Do I have stacks of these? I certainly could - but because I can buy them. But now is not the time for that, because the price is too high - meaning, I can get them more cheaply in the coming days. I wouldn't use them as a store of value like I might a converter or a hero pack. 

Again, while this new currency may have been introduced so that everyone was on even footing, it's flawed logic. I have billions and could have been one to spend all that inf for 150 of those prismatics to get the badges. That's not even footing. I've got the inf. If it weren't for the badge fighting the two robots in the hardmode itf - the only reason to do it is because it's new. Once I get that badge...there's no motivation. It only took 5 runs of 4*Aeon (going for combat dummy) to get those three costume badges. 

So..um...no. It wasn't really a great move. Reward merits would have done the same thing. 

 

Dude, you're getting butt hurt over something SO minor here.  So what if a new currency was added in?  It's mostly useless unless you want the new NPC costumes.  You don't want the costumes - then why do you care so much that they didn't use an existing currency?  And I for one, would NOT want reward merits to be chewed up to use for these.  It's like Halloween Salvage and Candy Canes... would you really want Reward Merits to be used for those un-necessary / frivolous items you buy with them as well?  I do NOT.  Reward Merits are too precious for me as they are how I get all ATO/Event enhancements as a good number of purples, as I refuse to pay the stupid prices on market for these things and purples rarely drop for me.  (I am a casual player who doesn't farm and doesn't have billions of influence lying around.)

 

But nevertheless, at the end of the day... these Aethers impact you 0 (zero).  They do nothing but give some people something to strive for and collect.  And you can see by how they are traded on the market that those people are enjoying them and others are enjoying selling them.  If you want no part of it, that's fine.  The game still plays like it did before and you can continue to enjoy it.    

 

I feel like you're getting all stressed out over something that is SO minor and negligent.  

 

Plus, you're also treating the Dev team like they are paid employees of a company to build out and develop this game like it used to be.  These are VOLUNTEER devs... give them a break.  They ARE producing new content and new powersets as they can.  They are also producing some new events, and yeah, new frivolous costume thingies that were requested by players and was a low-hanging fruit to implement because the system was ALREADY in place from a previous event.  Give them a break, dude.  And give yourself a break - I feel like you're giving yourself an ulcer over this and I don't want you ending up in the hospital - we need all the people in-game that we can get!  😄

 

[Zhym]

12 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

 

I appreciate the callout, but I have been really encouraged of late to log in and find new people running a lot of the stuff we tend to run. @BlackSpectre and I cross paths in Ouro a lot, too, both recruiting for different stuff. We have, and will continue to need, current and new leaders running everything from DFBs to sewers to Posis to ITFs to iTrials (and tours to unlock each zone on your Zone teleport) to keep the player base engaged.

 

Fair point.  I'm probably thinking more in terms of badge runs, which do seem to have a more limited set of people who run them—probably because badge runs must be a PITA to run given how susceptible many of them are to griefers.

 

Speaking of which, I know you don't do Keyes and Underground trials.  Am I right that it's also been ages since you ran a TPN, or have I just not been on at the right time?

[Ukase]

14 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Plus, you're also treating the Dev team like they are paid employees of a company to build out and develop this game like it used to be.  These are VOLUNTEER devs... give them a break.  They ARE producing new content and new powersets as they can.  They are also producing some new events, and yeah, new frivolous costume thingies that were requested by players and was a low-hanging fruit to implement because the system was ALREADY in place from a previous event.  Give them a break, dude.  And give yourself a break - I feel like you're giving yourself an ulcer over this and I don't want you ending up in the hospital - we need all the people in-game that we can get!  😄

 

So, no need to worry. I don't even know what stress is, really, unless it's on the erg. 
And this is where text loses something when someone like me is writing. Intonation, pitch, etc - without it, some things get lost. 

I'm really not that upset over the prismatic. The only thing that I'm finding a bit annoying was the rush to publish. Got a day when you think an issue/page is ready to go? Wait another 60 days. If they had waited, I could have seen more stuff in brainstorm and expressed my concerns. Heck, it was only a couple of days ago, my obtuse brain learned how to actually see what was new on Brainstorm to know what to test. 

It is true, the prismatic is a minor thing for me. But what's also true is I still need a lot more of them for various badge characters. It bugs me that because of poor planning on the devs part (it's my thinking - not an absolute truth) I get a penalty for doing more than one iTrial on any given character. I find it so obvious that this isn't a good idea, that I'm struggling to understand why they went about it in this fashion. 

With that, opinions vary. Mine isn't going to always be based on logic. Sometimes, it's just because I'm irritated. I did a BAF after a Lambda, and no prismatic. Not the end of the world. But it's damned petty. 

So, I'm not going anywhere. But even if I did, pretty sure nobody would even know I was gone until they tried to buy some pvp IOs and saw the prices creeping up. 

[Oklahoman]

1 hour ago, Zhym said:

Speaking of which, I know you don't do Keyes and Underground trials.  Am I right that it's also been ages since you ran a TPN, or have I just not been on at the right time?

 

I run BAF, LAM, DD, and MAG, as far as iTrials go. I just don't enjoy playing in the other iTrials, so I don't even try to run them. TFJ and others do a wonderful job with those.

[Frozen Burn]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, no need to worry. I don't even know what stress is, really, unless it's on the erg. 
And this is where text loses something when someone like me is writing. Intonation, pitch, etc - without it, some things get lost. 

 

The assumed stressed is perceived from all your lengthy posts and well, this thread in general.  There is a lot of back-and-forth over something so minor like Aethers.  That typically is a sign of stress - even if you don't think you are stressed, you may be.  Stress is a silent and hidden killer.  (Ooo... maybe a new Stalker name!  "Stress"  😄 )

 

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

I'm really not that upset over the prismatic. The only thing that I'm finding a bit annoying was the rush to publish. Got a day when you think an issue/page is ready to go? Wait another 60 days. If they had waited, I could have seen more stuff in brainstorm and expressed my concerns. Heck, it was only a couple of days ago, my obtuse brain learned how to actually see what was new on Brainstorm to know what to test. 

It is true, the prismatic is a minor thing for me. But what's also true is I still need a lot more of them for various badge characters. It bugs me that because of poor planning on the devs part (it's my thinking - not an absolute truth) I get a penalty for doing more than one iTrial on any given character. I find it so obvious that this isn't a good idea, that I'm struggling to understand why they went about it in this fashion. 

With that, opinions vary. Mine isn't going to always be based on logic. Sometimes, it's just because I'm irritated. I did a BAF after a Lambda, and no prismatic. Not the end of the world. But it's damned petty. 

 

I don't think Page 4 was rushed at all, we had 6 weeks with it on Brainstorm.  And that is certainly plenty of time for even a casual player like myself to get on and test it out.  I'm sorry you missed your chance.  

 

And there is purpose to making these Aethers not as readily accessible and that is to give their worthless value some longevity.  The Devs didn't want to drop something new and have everyone be able to get all their characters the new shiny at once - because then people would be bored with the new shiny sooner.  It would be poor implementation to use a current currency (that most people have stockpiled and would instantly get all the goodies at once) and/or make the new currency SO easy to get that people have all they need within a week or so of the release.  ...this is NOT poor planning on the Devs part.  You just seem to be in a rush to get all the badges on all your alts... but embrace the journey.  🙂  

 

I casually play.  I am 13 Aethers away from getting the last badge on my main from running content (never purchase off market).  I'm not pushing to get the remainder and I'm certainly not buying any of them... I'll get them as they drop.  iTrials are not the only way to get them (Running TPN and UG first is best so you get 3).  Running hardmode ITF or ASF is the best way to get them.  That is how I got most of mine at 1-2 stars, ran couple 3 stars and one 4-star ASF) and since they are transferable, I can play whatever character I want and then give them to my badger.  Running the WST with a lvl 50 is a good way to get them, while you may only get a couple at a time, they add up since typically one runs the WST multiple times a week on many different characters.

 

Anyway, sorry you feel disappointed in the release.

 

PS - thanks for the decently priced PVP IOs.... when they don't drop, they are the only special IOs I purchase off market and not with reward merits.  👍

[Mopery]

I think we all agree that we could use more stuff and things.

[Ukase]

34 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

we had 6 weeks with it on Brainstorm.

Just my point. That's not nearly enough time. Heck, that's enough time to get the word out - not enough time to test things and consider how the changes will impact things. At least, not enough time for folks who only play a few hours a week, with some of that time already ear-marked for specific events. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

The Devs didn't want to drop something new and have everyone be able to get all their characters the new shiny at once - because then people would be bored with the new shiny sooner.

That's just my point. Making them available on the AH was just stupid. Not complaining - as I bought them at just about the lowest point because I could for my primary badge character. Still have 4 more badgers that aren't in a rush. I just don't think it was a good idea. We'll just disagree on that, and it'll be okay. 

 

38 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Anyway, sorry you feel disappointed in the release.

I hope that's not the takeaway. I'm not disappointed in the release. I'm disappointed in the diminishing returns on different content, something I'd have pointed out if it had been on Brainstorm for more than a minute. (yeah, that's exaggeration. Still, 6 weeks isn't enough time. Granted, just my opinion, but 3 months would be better.  Why the rush? ) 

 

I fully recognize that I'm a guest here. And the GMs are volunteers and the HC devs are also volunteers. 
I've also given proper kudos and thanks for them actually listening (and acting) on the vet rewards in the AE maps. 

Generally, the only thing I look for when I come to the forums is insight into the "why".  When I know "why", it makes the "what" a lot easier to digest, and I really wish they would lead with the "why". 
Heck, 30 pages of AE squabbling could have been prevented if they just led with "why". (well, at least a couple of my posts, anyway) 

And remember (or realize, if you haven't heard) I can be obtuse. I want things spelled out by HC. I don't want to read between the lines.  

And no, thank you! I made a billion inf over the weekend selling the pvp IOs! Damned tedious, but it only took 4 sets of 15 minutes. Now if I could just get my competition to stop outbidding me on the recipes, I could lower the price some more! 

[Ironblade]

18 hours ago, huang3721 said:

IMO, that guy who bought it for 180M was a moron. Although rare, PAP has no value compared to other things (enhancement, booster, etc). Why would they do that? 

Oh, it wasn't just 'that guy' buying one for 180M.

My girlfriend was on one of the early hard mode runs and sold *FOUR* PAP at 200M *EACH*.

[Oklahoman]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I'm disappointed in the diminishing returns on different content, something I'd have pointed out if it had been on Brainstorm for more than a minute.

 

It is an odd award schedule, and it is causing some people to ask why everyone else got one and I didn't. The only way I found to know when the CD period ends is to look through log files. Also, when I've stepped onto Brainstorm in the past there's, like, no one there, so it's hard to test what a regular "day" for me might be like.

 

Anyway, more back to your original point, it has impacted my decisions on how I play. I've been rotating through alts and leading MoDDs more because it's a single run for Masters, and it awards 2 of those darned things which, up until several hours ago, were going for at least 20 million each. I resisted the urge to alt between each of the 3 runs necessary for MoLAM, though, even though financially that would have been a better choice.

 

Now that they are trading at 10 million and probably heading south from there, it's easier to sort of not care. Honestly, how much influence does anyone need in this game, anyway? (Not talking about capitalism in general, but works there, too.) And I still haven't tapped into the extra Reward Merits I've been picking up along the way.

[STiTcH]

8 hours ago, Zhym said:

I'd quibble a bit both with the premise that Homecoming losing so many players is a huge problem and with the conclusion that the way to get them back is to add more things to grind for.

 

Yes, Homecoming doesn't have as many players as it had in March 2020.  No surprise there: it was "new" again, and most of us were home all day because of the pandemic.  Homecoming will never have that many players again. 

 

Is that a problem?  Well, I play almost exclusively on Excelsior, where it still doesn't take long for TFs and iTrials to fill.  Hami raids and MSRs are also routinely full.  And of course there's all that content that can be played solo.  If Homecoming's population drops to that of a ghost town, I'll still be incredibly grateful that I could log into that ghost town and play all that solo content that I missed so much after NC Soft took it away.

 

But the loss of players is felt a bit around the edges.  Less popular activities, like Hami Bud "raids" in First ward and Recluse's Victory runs, don't seem to happen as often than they used to.  And we're increasingly reliant on a handful of players who run iTrials on a regular basis.  If @Oklahoman, @STiTcH, and @Confusion got bored with the game and left, parts of the game would practically collapse.  Excelsior would be...well, like most of the other shards.  Fortunately, they don't seem bored with it yet.  And there's plenty of stuff to do even when there isn't a raid or an iTrial going.  By another metric, Homecoming's population is just fine: they're still getting enough donations each month to pay the bills, and getting them fairly quickly.  

 

Homecoming is never going to be the next big thing, even if talks to have legitimate use of the IP eventually resolve.  Maybe it's okay that it's a niche game that a few hundred people love and no one else cares about.

 

But suppose we grant the premise that population loss is bad.  I really don't think it's a lack of locked content or enough things to grind for that's keeping people away.  And adding NPC costumes that are locked behind a new currency isn't going to bring anyone back.  

 

Personally, I think Homecoming's biggest barrier to population growth is that it's gotten kind of unfriendly to new players.  I don't mean "unfriendly" in that we're intentionally hostile and mean when a new player shows up, but the way the game is structured now isn't really newbie friendly.  For example: just yesterday, someone who joined a Hess TF asked how to get to Striga, and it took me a moment to remember the smuggler's submarine and where it is, because what I usually do is use the macro to hop to the Excelsior Transportation Zone base and use a teleporter there.  Until recently, using LFG to get to Cimerora quickly was another piece of arcane knowledge kept from the uninitiated.  And don't get me started again on Homecoming's weird economy, which new players can't possibly be expected to understand unless someone explains it to them.  Someone who wants to try this game they've heard about, where you can be a superhero and fight bad guys, is quickly going to become lost in what Homecoming is now.

 

NPC costumes locked behind a new currency doesn't solve any of that.  In fact, it makes it worse by complicating the game even further. 

 

What would bring more players in?  Beats me, and this post is too long already.  New content is always good, but new content has just turned into the next thing to farm (see: Aeon, which is just full of wonderfulness and challenge but is usually just sped through for the rewards.  The only reason people do the AWESOME Hero 1 fight now is because it rewards Aether...so I guess I'm glad Aether exists, if just for that).  And because I think it's mostly casual players we're losing, adding more hard modes isn't the solution either.  Maybe there isn't a solution.  Maybe that's even okay.

Thank you much for the shout out. Personally I would do about anything to help the community thrive. I am glad to see others running trials and teaching new folks the game as well. @dragynmaster and PK run great trials and content. Awesome to see all the communities out there so willing to help others.

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Ukase said:

I will never understand why some of you bypass shards, and burn threads, making it take even longer for you to get the rest of your incarnate slots finished. But, I guess you folks are running iTrials instead of the other content. For me it's always the opposite. I get more shards than I need, and not enough threads. 
 

some of us are just living life shard outta luck

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

Running regular content, and doing nothing else, you will get enough Threads and Empyrean Merits to get all of your Incarnates to Tier 3 by Vet Level 12. Not might. Not maybe. Will. It's a preset amount. 

 

Generally I do get enough Shards to get Alpha to Tier 3... On the second pass. Waiting on Shards is inefficient and slow. 

But that's t-3. I go to t-4. 
When the RNG doesn't show favor, the number of emps for the t-4 (30 for the VR) is obviously a larger requirement. I'm on my tank right now, ready to t-4 my alpha, and I did it all with shards. All of it. I will need two more Notices, tho, and will have to wait a couple of weeks - 1 notice from kahn, 1 from Mortimer Kal (prometheus conversion) ...and I'll see what the weeklies are the next couple of weeks. 

The threads I save from using shards saves me a fair number of threads to go towards the t-4s. 
And I'm sure we all do things our own way - but I am in the habit of t-3ing Destiny, Lore and Alpha before even bothering with any of the others. Then I'll t-3 the rest, and then t-4 Lore, then destiny and the others - and by that time, I generally have enough shards to finish t-4ing alpha, but will need the Notices. 

 

[BlackSpectre]

Not to mention that BAF now gives 80% less Reward Merits than it used to, and yet in the Dev notes it states that an equivalent amount of reward merits will be earned after Page 4. What they didn't say is that the equivalent amount only applies to the first run, every one thereafter takes an 80% cut from what it was before Page 4. Not cool.

 

I don't know about the other iTrials, but I suspect they're in the same boat.

 

It really does seems like doing many of the same iTrial is being discouraged, while doing only one of many different iTrials is being encouraged. The problem is that not all iTrials are equal in enjoyment, efficiency, or in returns for time spent. BAF and the DA mission are the most popular iTrials by far... and both take 20 min to complete. Efficiency is key. But this new reward system is discouraging efficiency in favor of diversity, and frankly diversity will always lose. So the question you need to ask yourself is, if players do not buy in to the idea of spreading out their iTrial portfolio, what will they do instead? What will the new reward system encourage and discourage players to do? I think @Ukase has a good answer to these questions...

Edited September 16, 2022 by BlackSpectre

[biostem]

17 hours ago, Ukase said:

I will never understand why some of you bypass shards, and burn threads, making it take even longer for you to get the rest of your incarnate slots finished. But, I guess you folks are running iTrials instead of the other content. For me it's always the opposite. I get more shards than I need, and not enough threads.

Bypass shards?  No.  But threads are much easier to come by, in my experience, and you can get 120 a pop from some vet levels.  For some of my characters, that alpha ability is a real game-changer, so if I have a bunch of threads lying around, and in some cases, don't even have the other slots unlocked yet, advancing that alpha *now* over one of the other slot abilities later, is of more value to me...

Edited September 16, 2022 by biostem

[biostem]

3 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

It really does seems like doing many of the same iTrial is being discouraged, while doing only one of many different iTrials is being encouraged. The problem is that not all iTrials are equal in enjoyment, efficiency, or in returns for time spent.

Well, there are diminishing rewards for running the same trial or TF again within the same time frame.  I wonder if people would be accepting of a system that, instead of returning fewer results on repeated runs of the same content, simply permitted X runs of *any* content at full value, then started reducing them from there, globally...

Edited September 16, 2022 by biostem

[Frozen Burn]

10 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Not to mention that BAF now gives 80% less Reward Merits than it used to, and yet in the Dev notes it states that an equivalent amount of reward merits will be earned after Page 4. What they didn't say is that the equivalent amount only applies to the first run, every one thereafter takes an 80% cut from what it was before Page 4. Not cool.

 

I don't know about the other iTrials, but I suspect they're in the same boat.

 

It really does seems like doing many of the same iTrial is being discouraged, while doing only one of many different iTrials is being encouraged. The problem is that not all iTrials are equal in enjoyment, efficiency, or in returns for time spent. BAF and the DA mission are the most popular iTrials by far... and both take 20 min to complete. Efficiency is key. But this new reward system is discouraging efficiency in favor of diversity, and frankly diversity will always lose. So the question you need to ask yourself is, if players do not buy in to the idea of spreading out their iTrial portfolio, what will they do instead? What will the new reward system encourage and discourage players to do? I think @Ukase has a good answer to these questions...

 

iTrials never rewarded Reward Merits before page 4.  Not sure where you got that from.  But all Reward Merits received for an iTrial now are ON TOP of normal existing rewards.  I run all iTrials every weekend and all my rewards are the same, but now I get bonus Reward Merits and Aethers.  

 

And, like other Trials, TFs, SFs, Hami-raids - there are diminishing returns for Reward Merits for repeating content, which includes iTrials.  This is normal.  

 

And sorry if you don't like all the iTrials or running all of them - but that's on you.  I like every single one.  And I team with a lot of people that also like to run every single one.  But still... like anything else... if you run a BAF many times over and over again, you'll only get the reward merits for the one - BUT you still get all your Emp, Astrals, and components like normal.  So you still get everything you got before page 4, but you get bonus Reward Merits for at least 1 BAF.  

 

Nothing is being lost with the iTrials in Page 4 and there is only gains.