The tragedy of the Brute Fury nerf. A timeless lament

BrandX · October 9, 2022

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky. But when I do it's because he's right.

Here's another example: The IO system. What's the easiest thing to get using set IOs? Defense. You know what's really hard to get with set IOs? A noticeable increase in damage output.

So Blasters (and other squishies) can increase their durability to at least Scrapper levels, but can a Tanker increase their damage output to Scrapper levels? Nope. It's almost like the entire IO system was deliberately designed to allow squishies to increase their durability but to prevent anyone from challenging Blaster's and Scrapper's damage output.

I'm curious to see these Blasters that feel like Scrapper level defense, because S/L Defense alone does not make Scrapper level defense imo.

BrandX · October 9, 2022

2 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Capping S/L Res helps quite a bit.

It does, Scrapper level defense, I did not feel tho

Snarky · October 9, 2022

15 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

I find this a little too much. I doubt a Blaster will have Scrapper survivability. They can try to stay at range (sometimes) to be more survivable but the damage will suffer.

I do agree that it is easier to increase survival than damage though with IO's. Fire/cold, defense/resist seems one of the easiest to increase favoring some sets. The +damage in IO sets is certainly not worth chasing. Increasing the +damage in IO's would also just benefit Blasters even more.

Scrappers never really had a hard time surviving but Blasters did. So i guess that is why the IO sets favor them. But what do we do about that now?

Here is a Blaster I/O'd and with certain power picks that I GUARANTEE will survive more than Scrappers, played correctly.

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Blanker: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lightning Bolt

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Time Wall

(A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge
(7) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize
(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance
(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
(11) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
(11) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy

Level 2: Ball Lightning

(A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage
(13) Artillery - Damage/Endurance
(15) Artillery - Damage/Recharge
(15) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(17) Artillery - Accuracy/Recharge/Range
(17) Artillery - Endurance/Recharge/Range

Level 4: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(19) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 6: Charged Bolts

(A) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Damage/RechargeTime
(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(25) Superior Defiant Barrage - RechargeTime/+Status

Level 8: Charge Up

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
(25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 10: Chronos

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(31) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 12: Zapp

(A) Executioner's Contract - Accuracy/Damage
(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Endurance
(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Interrupt
(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Range
(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Recharge
(33) Executioner's Contract - Disorient Bonus

Level 14: Fly

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
(34) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range

Level 16: Grant Invisibility

(A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 18: Phase Shift

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 20: Temporal Healing

(A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
(34) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(34) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(36) Endurance Modification IO

Level 22: Time Stop

(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
(36) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
(37) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
(37) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(37) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
(39) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold

Level 24: Kick

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 26: Tough

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(40) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 28: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(42) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 30: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(43) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Thunderous Blast

(A) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage
(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Damage/Recharge
(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Recharge/Chance for Fire Damage

Level 35: Personal Force Field

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 38: Time Lord

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 41: Repulsion Bomb

(A) Bombardment - Damage
(46) Bombardment - Damage/Recharge
(46) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(48) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge/Endurance
(48) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage
(48) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown

Level 44: Temp Invulnerability

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 47: Time Shift

(A) Impeded Swiftness - Accuracy/Slow
(50) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 49: Force of Nature

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 1: Defiance

Level 1: Brawl

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BrandX · October 9, 2022

39 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I just made an S/L farming Blaster, Dual Pistols/Devices. It works REALLY well.

With hover?

Sanguinesun · October 9, 2022

7 hours ago, Snarky said:
Here is a Blaster I/O'd and with certain power picks that I GUARANTEE will survive more than Scrappers, played correctly.

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Blanker: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lightning Bolt

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage

(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance

(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge

(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Time Wall

(A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge

(7) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize

(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance

(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge

(11) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

(11) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy

Level 2: Ball Lightning

(A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage

(13) Artillery - Damage/Endurance

(15) Artillery - Damage/Recharge

(15) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(17) Artillery - Accuracy/Recharge/Range

(17) Artillery - Endurance/Recharge/Range

Level 4: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

(19) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 6: Charged Bolts

(A) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage

(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Damage/RechargeTime

(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime

(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

(25) Superior Defiant Barrage - RechargeTime/+Status

Level 8: Charge Up

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff

(25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge

(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance

(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance

(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance

(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 10: Chronos

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

(31) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 12: Zapp

(A) Executioner's Contract - Accuracy/Damage

(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Endurance

(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Interrupt

(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Range

(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Recharge

(33) Executioner's Contract - Disorient Bonus

Level 14: Fly

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

(34) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range

Level 16: Grant Invisibility

(A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 18: Phase Shift

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 20: Temporal Healing

(A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

(34) Preventive Medicine - Heal

(34) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod

(36) Endurance Modification IO

Level 22: Time Stop

(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold

(36) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge

(37) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold

(37) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold

(37) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

(39) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold

Level 24: Kick

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 26: Tough

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance

(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge

(40) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 28: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge

(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

(42) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 30: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

(43) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Thunderous Blast

(A) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage

(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Damage/Recharge

(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Recharge/Chance for Fire Damage

Level 35: Personal Force Field

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 38: Time Lord

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 41: Repulsion Bomb

(A) Bombardment - Damage

(46) Bombardment - Damage/Recharge

(46) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(48) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge/Endurance

(48) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage

(48) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown

Level 44: Temp Invulnerability

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance

(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge

(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 47: Time Shift

(A) Impeded Swiftness - Accuracy/Slow

(50) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 49: Force of Nature

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 1: Defiance

Level 1: Brawl
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Just something I want to ask about: Wouldn't the reliance of being in melee to use kick to proc the +recharge have the total recharge at only about 67% if not in melee in that build, so while it does have more survival at range, it lacks damage output due to the slower recharge, especially in a s/l farm context?

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sanguinesun

Sovera · October 9, 2022

On 10/8/2022 at 12:35 AM, Snarky said:

In my opinion.....brutes have been held back because the Devs write for Blaster action. Hence the unavoidable giant damage patches that deal astronomical damage. Hence all the Brute nerfs, hence the Tank Buff (Blasters want one Tank on the team/league)

If you wipe the pieces off the board and just stare at the squares the strategy becomes damn clear. Do not get lost in details. LOOK at the end result. The game is set up for Blasters now, with spots for a few support toons on any team/league.

Are we doing the thing where 'devs play a class/AT and that's why they buff them'? Because it's a favourite conspiracy theory.

I would rather look at it as meleers are a crushing percentage of the population because they are immune to CC, do good damage, are sturdy enough to make ranged cry. Thus the content is made thinking that meleers will stroll in like mini demi gods.

Did the knob get turned too far and now ranged are preferred? Yeah, maybe, that's the nature of metas, they seldomly are static and will shift according to new variables.

Snarky · October 9, 2022

1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

Just something I want to ask about: Wouldn't the reliance of being in melee to use kick to proc the +recharge have the total recharge at only about 67% if not in melee in that build, so while it does have more survival at range, it lacks damage output due to the slower recharge, especially in a s/l farm context?

I never use the kick power lol. The thing is there as a stepping stone to Tough. Slotting the proc is just a builders habit.

This thing is light on damage (for a Blaster). It was built as my response to the tragedy of the Sentinel AT. Played correctly (staying at range, using the two invulnerable to damage clickys) this is an insanely survivable build. Which, at the end of the day, does a great amount of damage. Low for a glass cannon, but a glass cannon wrapped in bubble wrap that disappears right before hitting the floor

Snarky · October 9, 2022

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Are we doing the thing where 'devs play a class/AT and that's why they buff them'? Because it's a favourite conspiracy theory.

I would rather look at it as meleers are a crushing percentage of the population because they are immune to CC, do good damage, are sturdy enough to make ranged cry. Thus the content is made thinking that meleers will stroll in like mini demi gods.

Did the knob get turned too far and now ranged are preferred? Yeah, maybe, that's the nature of metas, they seldomly are static and will shift according to new variables.

I long since learned to give two shakes of a lambs butt about conspiracy theories. In any part of life.

I am saying that if you play the game, if you examine the obstacles and requirements carefully, you will quickly come to the conclusion it is a Blasters game now.

I have no idea if the Devs play Blasters. i honestly think it is a possibility the current Devs wring all their enjoyment from the game writing code and building the game. They are putting out high quality content at a steady pace with a volunteer teem. Get real. They have time to do anything but play test a bit?

Again, just do the math. Or play a Blaster for a couple months on level 50 content. Then try to play anything else. Observe and report.

Gobbledigook · October 9, 2022

11 hours ago, Snarky said:
Here is a Blaster I/O'd and with certain power picks that I GUARANTEE will survive more than Scrappers, played correctly.

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.6
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Blanker: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lightning Bolt

(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage

(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance

(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge

(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Time Wall

(A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge

(7) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize

(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance

(9) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge

(11) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

(11) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy

Level 2: Ball Lightning

(A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage

(13) Artillery - Damage/Endurance

(15) Artillery - Damage/Recharge

(15) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(17) Artillery - Accuracy/Recharge/Range

(17) Artillery - Endurance/Recharge/Range

Level 4: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

(19) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 6: Charged Bolts

(A) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage

(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Damage/RechargeTime

(21) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime

(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(23) Superior Defiant Barrage - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

(25) Superior Defiant Barrage - RechargeTime/+Status

Level 8: Charge Up

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff

(25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge

(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance

(27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance

(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance

(29) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 10: Chronos

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

(31) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 12: Zapp

(A) Executioner's Contract - Accuracy/Damage

(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Endurance

(31) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Interrupt

(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Range

(33) Executioner's Contract - Damage/Recharge

(33) Executioner's Contract - Disorient Bonus

Level 14: Fly

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

(34) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range

Level 16: Grant Invisibility

(A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 18: Phase Shift

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 20: Temporal Healing

(A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

(34) Preventive Medicine - Heal

(34) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod

(36) Endurance Modification IO

Level 22: Time Stop

(A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold

(36) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge

(37) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold

(37) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold

(37) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

(39) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold

Level 24: Kick

(A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 26: Tough

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance

(39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge

(40) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 28: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

(40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge

(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

(42) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 30: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

(43) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Thunderous Blast

(A) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage

(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Damage/Recharge

(43) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

(45) Superior Blaster's Wrath - Recharge/Chance for Fire Damage

Level 35: Personal Force Field

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 38: Time Lord

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 41: Repulsion Bomb

(A) Bombardment - Damage

(46) Bombardment - Damage/Recharge

(46) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

(48) Bombardment - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge/Endurance

(48) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage

(48) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown

Level 44: Temp Invulnerability

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance

(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge

(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 47: Time Shift

(A) Impeded Swiftness - Accuracy/Slow

(50) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 49: Force of Nature

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 1: Defiance

Level 1: Brawl
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Not seeing it. I have Scrappers that will out survive that. But it all depends on the mobs and if there is a Tank around etc. I think @Linea has a Scrapper that survives well in the 801 which i doubt a Blaster could do.

The ranged defence is nice but without DDR can soon drop. PFF is handy but then that means no Dps. It also takes a set that has all Ranged attacks including the T9.

Snarky · October 9, 2022

8 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Not seeing it. I have Scrappers that will out survive that. But it all depends on the mobs and if there is a Tank around etc. I think @Linea has a Scrapper that survives well in the 801 which i doubt a Blaster could do.

The ranged defence is nice but without DDR can soon drop. PFF is handy but then that means no Dps. It also takes a set that has all Ranged attacks including the T9.

This build uses a set with all ranged attacks, including the tier 9.

I mention this because I think you are missing out on the basic premise of the build. Just blowing past it like you did that fact.

This build is not meant to be active 100% of the time. It can jump into a very hard fight if there are Tanks, etc. When it does draw splash agro it can then use either of the two click powers that grant complete protection. That includes if Defenses start to drop. When it is safe it comes out and rains down hell from on high. This is designed as a A10 Warthog. It only picks fights it can win, then kills shit. If it cannot win the fight it has more than enough tools to get out of ANY CoX situation. That is why it can out survive (and out damage) a Scrapper. You have to play the toon.

If you count "as tough as" by meaning walk up to the mobs and see how long you can keep punching before they cut through your defenses, armor, and health. then NO, The Scrapper will win at that.

This setup uses another path altogether. Something I like to call Strategy. It sounds catchy, and I hope people start to use it.

Gobbledigook · October 9, 2022

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

This build uses a set with all ranged attacks, including the tier 9.

I mention this because I think you are missing out on the basic premise of the build. Just blowing past it like you did that fact.

This build is not meant to be active 100% of the time. It can jump into a very hard fight if there are Tanks, etc. When it does draw splash agro it can then use either of the two click powers that grant complete protection. That includes if Defenses start to drop. When it is safe it comes out and rains down hell from on high. This is designed as a A10 Warthog. It only picks fights it can win, then kills shit. If it cannot win the fight it has more than enough tools to get out of ANY CoX situation. That is why it can out survive (and out damage) a Scrapper. You have to play the toon.

If you count "as tough as" by meaning walk up to the mobs and see how long you can keep punching before they cut through your defenses, armor, and health. then NO, The Scrapper will win at that.

This setup uses another path altogether. Something I like to call Strategy. It sounds catchy, and I hope people start to use it.

Honestly you do not need to be antagonistic in every post you do not agree with dude.

Yes a Blaster can drop their nukes etc then run to safety for a bit. Scrappers tend to Scrapperlock lol. Playstyle i guess.

A well built Scrapper will continue the dps when the Blaster has run. They also have the tools to survive. T9's, barriers etc.

Running away and popping PFF or Barrier etc is ok if you wish to play that way lol. Everyone is different.

Still does not convince me though.

Snarky · October 9, 2022

45 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Honestly you do not need to be antagonistic in every post you do not agree with dude.

Yes a Blaster can drop their nukes etc then run to safety for a bit. Scrappers tend to Scrapperlock lol. Playstyle i guess.

A well built Scrapper will continue the dps when the Blaster has run. They also have the tools to survive. T9's, barriers etc.

Running away and popping PFF or Barrier etc is ok if you wish to play that way lol. Everyone is different.

Still does not convince me though.

That Blaster can also keep a full barrage on Battle Maiden while that Scrapper survives??? runs? dodges? but let us just agree to disagree.

roleki · October 9, 2022

13 hours ago, BrandX said:

I'm curious to see these Blasters that feel like Scrapper level defense, because S/L Defense alone does not make Scrapper level defense imo.

Am I the only person who builds for positional defense over typed? Using cheapass Artillery and Thunderstrike, it is ridiculously easy to get a ranged character to the Ranged def cap. Since Blasters have sustain and can fire through mez, and/or support characters often have a self-heal or other survival implements at their disposal, it's pretty easy to get a ranged character that keeps up (or surpasses) with Scrapper-level survivability.

Sanguinesun · October 9, 2022

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Honestly you do not need to be antagonistic in every post you do not agree with dude.

Yes a Blaster can drop their nukes etc then run to safety for a bit. Scrappers tend to Scrapperlock lol. Playstyle i guess.

A well built Scrapper will continue the dps when the Blaster has run. They also have the tools to survive. T9's, barriers etc.

Running away and popping PFF or Barrier etc is ok if you wish to play that way lol. Everyone is different.

Still does not convince me though.

Take their faux misanthropy with a grain of salt. Since Snark was framing a good portion of his post in relation to survival with smashing lethal farms (most of them) and similar flying tactics contextually in the discussion, his build can farm without much concern, albeit slow.

An Ice/Tactical/with invuln from epic can survive even more effortlessly and with more damage/aoe output, much better recharge and never seeing their endurance become an issue to use insp or ageless. This is because the only damage incoming potential to such a blaster is ranged in those cases. A scrapper though gets it all incoming due to being on the ground and encountering melee. Statistically this means damage gets through much more and thus the scrapper has to have more management there of. Does that mean a scrapper cant handle it? No they can, but they're going to be more active in their needs to do so. This I believe is the point snarky is trying to make, that the blaster has advantages the scrapper cannot partake of(unless they want to make a flying scrapper with range abilities 😛 then). it'd be on par with the slowness of his proffered build probably.

And as snarky said, there are play choices (ie flat footing with a pack of mobs) that of course a blaster would not be suited to. I don't think anyone disputes that unless we're talking maybe a widow-in-blaster's- clothing (as long as they dont encounter a defense cascade either mind you). 😛

1 hour ago, roleki said:

Am I the only person who builds for positional defense over typed? Using cheapass Artillery and Thunderstrike, it is ridiculously easy to get a ranged character to the Ranged def cap. Since Blasters have sustain and can fire through mez, and/or support characters often have a self-heal or other survival implements at their disposal, it's pretty easy to get a ranged character that keeps up (or surpasses) with Scrapper-level survivability.

That was part of the point too in snarky's build since they're running a 40-50% ranged defense with their 75% cap s/l resistance.

BrandX · October 9, 2022

2 hours ago, roleki said:

Am I the only person who builds for positional defense over typed? Using cheapass Artillery and Thunderstrike, it is ridiculously easy to get a ranged character to the Ranged def cap. Since Blasters have sustain and can fire through mez, and/or support characters often have a self-heal or other survival implements at their disposal, it's pretty easy to get a ranged character that keeps up (or surpasses) with Scrapper-level survivability.

Nope, I've built for ranged defense on some Blasters, still didn't feel like Scrapper level survival in plenty of TFs/Missions. I'm not saying it doesn't feel more survivable than Blasters without, but maybe tough than that Regen scrapper due to that defense, I'll give you. 😛

Linea · October 9, 2022

@Gobbledegook

16 hours ago, Snarky said:

Here is a Blaster I/O'd and with certain power picks that I GUARANTEE will survive more than Scrappers, played correctly.

"Not a chance in %@#%." Solo 801.6 for starters. If you survive that, then try 801.7. If you survive that, then solo a 2-Star ITF. If you survive that, then solo a 3-Star ITF. If by some miracle you survive that, then we'll talk about blasters being as tough as scrappers. I would under normal circumstances start you on 801.2, then upgrade you to 801.5, then 801.6. But as you're pretty confident in your ability, It should be fair to skip the start levels and just to jump straight into 801.6

Sapping with ranged defense IS a very good tactic. Sapping IS considerably more viable now, than even a year ago, due to the electric upgrades, and it's a great addition to team, ... But it doesn't make you more durable than a scrapper.

Damage wise, pretty much any blaster will out AoE any scrapper, that's AT design. ST Damage, you're going to have to crank out 650 to 700 dps to outdamage top tier scrappers. I've not seen any blasters do that yet.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Linea

Snarky · October 9, 2022

8 minutes ago, Linea said:

@Gobbledegook

"Not a chance in %@#%." Solo 801.6 for starters. If you survive that, then try 801.7. If you survive that, then solo a 2-Star ITF. If you survive that, then solo a 3-Star ITF. If by some miracle you survive that, then we'll talk about blasters being as tough as scrappers. I would under normal circumstances start you on 801.2, then upgrade you to 801.5, then 801.6. But as you're pretty confident in your ability, It should be fair to skip the start levels and just to jump straight into 801.6

Sapping with ranged defense IS a very good tactic. Sapping IS considerably more viable now, than even a year ago, due to the electric upgrades, and it's a great addition to team, ... But it doesn't make you more durable than a scrapper.

Damage wise, pretty much any blaster will out AoE any scrapper, that's AT design. ST Damage, you're going to have to crank out 650 to 700 dps to outdamage top tier scrappers. I've not seen any blasters do that yet.

Uh.....Nooooooo

That is not the point of the build at all. I NEVER said this was a toon to solo AE 800s. Like, seriously? WTF?

There are many Scrappers who could not do what you just layed out as the bare minimum before you "talk about Blasters being as tough as Scrappers"

I stated very clearly, for anyone who chose to read, that this Blaster build was designed for a certain strategy. That strategy is NOT to go into a high level AE run solo. A regular semi truck can haul 80,000 pounds, 40k cargo plus itself at 60 mph+. On a freeway. In dry conditions. This Blaster build is as tough as a Scrapper. If, and only if, you play it as designed. Take a semi into wet sand and suddenly it do not go so fast. Does not mean it cannot haul cargo. It means it was not designed to haul cargo over wet sand.

You do understand? Maybe?

Grimm2 · October 9, 2022

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

If it cannot win the fight it has more than enough tools to get out of ANY CoX situation. That is why it can out survive (and out damage) a Scrapper. You have to play the toon.

I think this is where your argument got confused, Snarky. I'm sure that build can survive many CoX situations, but this statement reaches outside the boundaries of the build's stated intention.

Snarky · October 9, 2022

21 minutes ago, Grimm2 said:

I think this is where your argument got confused, Snarky. I'm sure that build can survive many CoX situations, but this statement reaches outside the boundaries of the build's stated intention.

You are correct. i should have specified the conditions I meant. Things like Really Hard Way Magisterium and the Battle Maiden fight from the Tinpex would be where this would (in my opinion) outshine a Scrapper. I am (relatively) sure that in a Farm (with a Brute/Tank tanking) the fire support this Blaster would provide would be more constant than a Scrapper in the same farm. With less deaths (over time) due to the ability to fully disengage and the re engage at Blaster's chosen time. (this specific Blaster, not any Blaster)

Edited October 9, 2022 by Snarky

Snarky · October 9, 2022

While I love these trips into the weeds (and I actually do) to determine whether or not this weed is or is not in the same classification as another weed it is important to state that the point of mentioning Blasters or Scrappers in this Brute thread was to illustrate the ugly spot Brutes are currently in.

Brutes have slowly but surely been lowered in power since the creation of the AT. Now the game is being designed to unduly punish melee ATs with AoE mechanics that seem to be borrowed from WoW raid mechanics. Which, crappy yet true, affects Brutes even more because they are the least suited to hit and run tactics of all the melee classes.

Gobbledigook · October 9, 2022

Ranged will always have an advantage over melee by being at range. They get hit less, avoid AoE's and can more easily run as you say. But for Peregrine to say they are as durable Scrappers is wrong, even if you mean under certain circumstances. What they mean is they get hit less with possibly better chances of escaping, so may survive longer, Occasionally in certain builds/powers, in certain content, under the right conditions during a full moon standing on one leg, whilst reading Harry Potter they may be more survivable 😛 J/K

Is that not true of any ranged class though? A defender could do the same. Less damage obviously but they bring buffs etc.

Maybe with the new hard mode being in the thick of the fight as opposed to hiding at the back may be too much for some Scrappers/power sets. Perhaps the Scrapper needs a max health boost or something, i dunno. But with Barriers that can be chained, T9s and even Fade etc they are pretty tough and imo more fun than hanging at the back ready to bolt if some Bozo gives you a funny look.

Brutes get 90% resist cap and better max health and when in a team with the right build/buffs is easy to achieve and makes them Tanks with fairly decent damage.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Gobbledegook

Snarky · October 9, 2022

1 minute ago, Gobbledegook said:

Ranged will always have an advantage over melee by being at range. They get hit less, avoid AoE's and can more easily run as you say. But for Peregrine to say they are as durable Scrappers is wrong, even if you mean under certain circumstances. What they mean is they get hit less with possibly better chances of escaping, so may survive longer, Occasionally in certain builds/powers, in certain content, under the right conditions during a full moon standing on one leg, whilst reading Harry Potter they may be more survivable 😛 J/K

Is that not true of any ranged class though? A defender could do the same. Less damage obviously but they bring buffs etc.

Maybe with the new hard mode being in the thick of the fight as opposed to hiding at the back may be too much for some Scrappers/power sets. Perhaps the Scrapper needs a max health boost or something, i dunno. But with Barriers that can be chained, T9s and even Fade etc they are pretty tough and imo more fun than hanging at the back ready to bolt if some Bozo gives you a funny look.

While I agree with your reasoning as a whole I think I actually winced when you wrote buff Scrappers health.

You're killing me smalls.

The point of this thread....the point....well....uh.

O F it. nvm

BrandX · October 9, 2022

6 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Ranged will always have an advantage over melee by being at range. They get hit less, avoid AoE's and can more easily run as you say. But for Peregrine to say they are as durable Scrappers is wrong, even if you mean under certain circumstances. What they mean is they get hit less with possibly better chances of escaping, so may survive longer, Occasionally in certain builds/powers, in certain content, under the right conditions during a full moon standing on one leg, whilst reading Harry Potter they may be more survivable 😛 J/K

Is that not true of any ranged class though? A defender could do the same. Less damage obviously but they bring buffs etc.

Maybe with the new hard mode being in the thick of the fight as opposed to hiding at the back may be too much for some Scrappers/power sets. Perhaps the Scrapper needs a max health boost or something, i dunno. But with Barriers that can be chained, T9s and even Fade etc they are pretty tough and imo more fun than hanging at the back ready to bolt if some Bozo gives you a funny look.

Brutes get 90% resist cap and better max health and when in a team with the right build/buffs is easy to achieve and makes them Tanks with fairly decent damage.

Yeah, I feel the higher HP and 90% resist caps being achieved by Brutes, gets forgotten because they think "Not doing Scrapper damage"

When last I recall, don't they still equal or surpass Scrappers in DPS with some builds, while also making better use of all defense sets over Scrappers?

I recall when it was all about Brutes doing more damage than Scrappers and the heavy Brute players balking at the idea of taking a 5% resist reduction. I don't know where that good balance between Tanks and Scrappers is supposed to be, but doing same if not more damage than Scrappers while having better survival doesn't seem it.

Yes, I recall the "Why take a scrapper on the team when a brute can be buffed to tanker defenses and do scrapper damage" 😛

Gobbledigook · October 9, 2022

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

While I agree with your reasoning as a whole I think I actually winced when you wrote buff Scrappers health.

You're killing me smalls.

The point of this thread....the point....well....uh.

O F it. nvm

Lol.

I am not totally against what you are saying. I said Max health, that which could be achievable as capping it out is very easy for some builds, could be a possibility but it's just an idle suggestion .

Snarky · October 9, 2022

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

When last I recall, don't they still equal or surpass Scrappers in DPS with some builds, while also making better use of all defense sets over Scrappers?

no

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