Farm nerfs

[Sneakers]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

Were you running someone else's farm, perhaps one not adjusted to account for the new changes?  The game will change over time, and you either adapt or fall behind...

Yea I was using old maps. 

I have alot of alts now. I enjoy playing my tank the most. 

Don't really have the need to farm anymore.

I do enjoy farming with brutes though. Having a group of brutes setup with fire secondary in a farm was always good fun. Especially the outdoor maps. 

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Sneakers said:

Yea I was using old maps. 

I have alot of alts now. I enjoy playing my tank the most. 

Don't really have the need to farm anymore.

I do enjoy farming with brutes though. Having a group of brutes setup with fire secondary in a farm was always good fun. Especially the outdoor maps. 

I don't know to what extent you have tried creating your own farms in AE, but you can still get decent results.  It's not like it was before, but it's still feasible...

Edited October 12, 2022 by biostem

[Ukase]

16 minutes ago, Sneakers said:

I noticed this in game after the patch. I don't fire farm much anymore I had gotten away from it even before the patch.

But I heard the commotion, and I loaded up my fire spines brute. Sure enough I could tell a difference.

Couldn't AFK farm like I used to. Even had to change the way I approached and fought enemies.

 

Don't really matter much to me. I can see how the farmers are upset.

 

I am sure with a bit of build change and even maybe some new AE missions using mobs that don't even have a ranged attack might could solve these new challenges.

Once I altered my attack pattern, I didn't have a problem fire farming myself.

I've experimented in the past with enemies that don't have a ranged attack. It's difficult to max the exp on them but its possible with the right power sets.

 

Glad you don't have the need to farm. 
I really don't farm anymore myself, although sometimes, I do prefer to afk the vet levels, rather than suffer through the same itrials or DA arcs over and over. 

I understand the reason for the changes. But I still would have preferred they just left it alone. In the overall scheme, I don't think the reason was really anything to worry about - but I guess snowballs can build in size if you let them roll down a snow covered mountain. It's weird. I get it, but at the same time, I think it was much fuss over nothing. (the reason for the change)

As for the difference between a page 4 AE map and pre-page 4 maps, the XP differences can be quite startling comparing the two types of maps, particularly if you're looking at multiple maps over time. 

 

[Sneakers]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

I don't know to what extent you have tried creating your own farms in AE, but you can still get decent results.  It's not like it was before, but it's still feasible...

I've made a few. I experimented quite a bit with different powersets trying obviously to make the easiest mobs possible with maximum exp. 

I ended up using regeneration powers as a way to boost their exp without increasing their defense or resistance.

Have no idea how well it worked since I didn't do extensive testing but have mobs with no ranged attack but still have 100% exp bar at level 50.

Not sure if the changes they have made would affect those settings in AE creator or not, haven't created anything recently

 

[Sneakers]

3 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Glad you don't have the need to farm. 
I really don't farm anymore myself, although sometimes, I do prefer to afk the vet levels, rather than suffer through the same itrials or DA arcs over and over. 

I understand the reason for the changes. But I still would have preferred they just left it alone. In the overall scheme, I don't think the reason was really anything to worry about - but I guess snowballs can build in size if you let them roll down a snow covered mountain. It's weird. I get it, but at the same time, I think it was much fuss over nothing. (the reason for the change)

As for the difference between a page 4 AE map and pre-page 4 maps, the XP differences can be quite startling comparing the two types of maps, particularly if you're looking at multiple maps over time. 

 

I agree with you.

From the fire farmers perspective....

There was a aspect of the game that players were enjoying very much and the recent changes are seemingly destroying it.

 

I don't know all the details why they are changing it so I can't really speak on it much ?

 

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Sneakers said:

I've made a few. I experimented quite a bit with different powersets trying obviously to make the easiest mobs possible with maximum exp. 

I ended up using regeneration powers as a way to boost their exp without increasing their defense or resistance.

Have no idea how well it worked since I didn't do extensive testing but have mobs with no ranged attack but still have 100% exp bar at level 50.

Not sure if the changes they have made would affect those settings in AE creator or not, haven't created anything recently

I hear ya.  In the case of a "Fire Farm", it really shouldn't matter if you pile on the fire attacks to get them to 100% XP, since theoretically, you should be using a character with maxed, (or nearly), fire resist.  If you're speaking in general, I've found a combination of savage leap and either a throw knife or archery attacks makes for a good S/L enemy, but that's only in my experience...

Edited October 12, 2022 by biostem

[Sneakers]

Just now, biostem said:

I hear ya.  In the case of a "Fire Farm", it really shouldn't matter if you pile on the fire attacks to get them to 100% XP, since theoretically, you should be using a character with maxed, (or nearly), fire resist.  If you;re speaking in general, I've found a combination of savage leap and either a throw knife or archery attacks makes for a good S/L enemy, but that's only in my experience...

Yea if I farm now a days I just do that huge outdoor map with council. Why not ?

 

[Uruare]

Everything comes full circle eventually.  Get a two good story missions worth farming in your quest log and flip-flop between them.  Never finish either, but exit and reset to preserve them.

Not as convenient as AE was, but hey, it was how we did things pre-AE and it still works.  Now, if only we could aggro entire maps on tanks again...

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Uruare said:

Everything comes full circle eventually.  Get a two good story missions worth farming in your quest log and flip-flop between them.  Never finish either, but exit and reset to preserve them.

Not as convenient as AE was, but hey, it was how we did things pre-AE and it still works.  Now, if only we could aggro entire maps on tanks again...

The nemesis and family map from the Television in GV was quite popular.

[DrunkFlux]

Honestly I don't mind farms as long as players can be active in them(in fact, the biggest beef I have AE farms is how they often discourage active participation, getting exp by just sitting, doing nothing while someone else does all the work used to be seen as leeching in the day, when I described AE farm power leveling to my father he stated "sounds like cheating".)

 

I had a long conversation just now with someone who was defending fire farming zealously, all the while I was making numerous points as to why it cannot and should not be the only way to play, why specifically it being overpowered is bad for the game, as it slowly turns into the only way to play from existing as being to powerful.  I mean, they nerfed E merit to merits on veteran levels being easily grinded up to 100, and then the toon being discarded after the E merits and merits were exhausted.  That was probably done by a scant few players, but it was enough the devs felt they had to nerf that feature, it was probably AE to blame for it.

 

That took away a key part of my strategy for funding my toons, I wasn't happy at all losing E merits to merit conversion, and I was left looking at AE as the culprit.  Like i'm slowly being forced to only play AE to fund my toons, which I really rather not be doing, I want to enjoy the rest of the game.  I prefer my income through trade, not having my toons sit around doing nothing while someone else(or me on another account) destroys mobs with a toon who's effectively immune to the only damage type on the entire map.

 

Complacent Gaming Syndrome - TV Tropes

 

So I was thinking of peoples reaction to the fix to AE experience bug that happened, and then came to past personal experiences ect, and I end up thinking of that trope.  Players get very complacent towards only one way to play, and I also came to another conclusion about AE, that it remaining powerful for to long it left me worried and bothered its existence can end up slowly rendering and removing all other aspects of the game.  I think the last thing we should want is to see AE become the literal only way to get a lot of experience and/or influence.  We saw that happening to a degree on live, in fact I'd even say AE saw the decline of CoH, and before we blame the devs we have to remember, it's players using it and abusing it that also didn't help the situation with AE. 

 

Many players in mmorpgs don't see content as anything else but a way to get lots of experience and influence, and don't care at all about the games content or it's story.  So devs had to nerf AE multiple times, I'm sure some players left even with the first nerfs out of frustration they were bound to experience when it'd be nerfed the first times, like enemies have to be given attacks ect.  I'm sure some players went to a diff private server exclusively so they could have pre-shutdown AE experience levels, *shrug*.  But theres a massive amount of content in the game that i'm positive just never gets played, at all, by 100% (not 99%, 100%) of the player base.  Some of it may be due to it's quality being low, but then theres content I'm sure is only played by 1-2 people at all due to AE and PI+4.  I know I certainly hadn't played Croatoa or faultlines story archs since homecoming started(even though they are some very fun archs).

Edited October 12, 2022 by DrunkFlux

[DrunkFlux]

I think I should repost it a bit here so it's now drowned out by my last paragraph in the post above to reiterate:  AE should NOT become the only way to play the game either, but if it remains to good it could easily become that.  When enough of a majority of players only play AE, it hurts everyone else who doesn't use AE, slowing and removing there ability to get any teams formed ect when everyone else is waiting around for an AE farm to form or is getting on board with an AE farm.  That can be just as destructive.  Plus AE has always had a hard impact on the economy, including especially on non-AE farmers.  Because it's where a lot of influence gets printed(and the prices thus effected by it, in fact I worried quite a bit about inflation effects when E merit-merit nerf hit, i'm shocked the prices didn't skyrocket everywhere yet).

 

It's probably a good thing recipies (including purple) can drop in AE now, otherwise we'd have half billion price tags on purple IO's like on live.

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

I think I should repost it a bit here so it's now drowned out by my last paragraph in the post above to reiterate:  AE should NOT become the only way to play the game either, but if it remains to good it could easily become that.  When enough of a majority of players only play AE, it hurts everyone else who doesn't use AE, slowing and removing there ability to get any teams formed ect when everyone else is waiting around for an AE farm to form or is getting on board with an AE farm.  That can be just as destructive.  Plus AE has always had a hard impact on the economy, including especially on non-AE farmers.  Because it's where a lot of influence gets printed(and the prices thus effected by it, in fact I worried quite a bit about inflation effects when E merit-merit nerf hit, i'm shocked the prices didn't skyrocket everywhere yet).

 

It's probably a good thing recipies (including purple) can drop in AE now, otherwise we'd have half billion price tags on purple IO's like on live.

If AE becomes crap it wouldn't be great either. I won't, don't at least anymore, PUG to 50 in this game so long as I have an account. I know if AE died, I would simply find another farm tactic. If anything, getting rid of AE would simply laterally shift farming. Oh and I would assume most farmers would(and at that point, should) charge for farms again.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Seed22

[Seed22]

21 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

Honestly I don't mind farms as long as players can be active in them(in fact, the biggest beef I have AE farms is how they often discourage active participation, getting exp by just sitting, doing nothing while someone else does all the work used to be seen as leeching in the day, when I described AE farm power leveling to my father he stated "sounds like cheating".)

"Cheating"? Ehh not really.

 

 

21 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

Many players in mmorpgs don't see content as anything else but a way to get lots of experience and influence, and don't care at all about the games content or it's story.  So devs had to nerf AE multiple times, I'm sure some players left even with the first nerfs out of frustration they were bound to experience when it'd be nerfed the first times, like enemies have to be given attacks ect.  I'm sure some players went to a diff private server exclusively so they could have pre-shutdown AE experience levels, *shrug*.  But theres a massive amount of content in the game that i'm positive just never gets played, at all, by 100% (not 99%, 100%) of the player base.  Some of it may be due to it's quality being low, but then theres content I'm sure is only played by 1-2 people at all due to AE and PI+4.  I know I certainly hadn't played Croatoa or faultlines story archs since homecoming started(even though they are some very fun archs).

Edited 20 hours ago by DrunkFlux

The content here imo isn't worth taking what will probably be my 70 something 50 through. I think you've failed to understand this:

 

This community has been around FAR longer than HC. We have ALL PLAYED ALL OF THE CONENT ALMOST in COH, hence why lot's of folks farm nowadays. Plus, I mean, literally 66%(Praetorian and Redside) isn't played anymore, not because of AE, but because people have grievances w/redside or praetoria for one reason or another, so AE nerfs wouldn't fix this. Folks want to blame everything including tectonic plates on Farming, but fail to understand just how outdated, boring, and repetitive CoH leveling content is post your, I dunno, 10th 50 at most?

 

 

*Of course opinions will vary. Some of you play this content like it's candy/it's awesome every single time, to which I say good for you. I

Edited October 13, 2022 by Seed22

[flakoff]

Nerfing farms is plain stupid when currently loads of people are just toting 1 to 50.

Also 54 radio team lfm any lvl welcome, erm see how it happens anyway.

 

 

 

[Black Zot]

7 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

. Folks want to blame everything including tectonic plates on Farming, but fail to understand just how outdated, boring, and repetitive CoH leveling content is post your, I dunno, 10th 50 at most?

 

I find various ways to skip story missions (usually MSR) because every time I try to play story stuff, I'm reminded of why I don't play the story stuff.  Very few arcs in this game have writing worth the space it takes up in the text boxes, and if it was shit the first time, subsequent times are going to suck even harder.  So really, why bother?

[LockeValken]

This is why I love you guys! The OPs concern was totally addressed and I posted on this the other day figuring no one have responded… Just sitting in a waiting room soaking up all this pundit vs professor debate. 
 

If anyone feels like no one reads their stuff, rest assured I read even the novels and find it super entertaining and I am totally not judging anything 😄 

[Lines]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:21 AM, Ukase said:

On the other hand, with 2xp(fixed version) giving plenty of XP, I don't want to overact - but still, why would anyone fix this? If they level up their characters, they'd have to appreciate the boost. And if they PL to 50, they'd certainly appreciate the saved time. 

I just don't see it as a win/win fix. More like a lose/lose fix. But that's just my opinion. 

 

If the buff says it will award double xp, then it should award double xp. If it isn't awarding double xp, something is wrong.

 

If you want more, it may be worth putting in a suggestion so that a higher xp multiplier can be implemented properly.

 

[Snarky]

Yes.  My original question has been addressed. Redressed, Dressed Down, Dressed Up and so on

 

I have a topic (that was moved…) to suggestions and feedback as my only follow up on this

 

Enjoying  the chat    Thank you everyone 

[Redletter]

 

On 10/9/2022 at 10:16 AM, Troo said:

Playing on test is sooo easy now.

Insta50 and Incarnates. Can even export an file with all the enhancement shopping in it. I don't know why folks don't play there more. Sure it can get wiped but it's so easy now to spin or re-spin up a character.

 

 

 

THIS IS WHAT I SAID! Like, between this, and Oro basically allowing you to hit up whatever content you want?! It's like, I dunno! I know I would like to actually PLAY on brainstorm more than just use it for testing beta build stuff (which coincidentally is ANOTHER reason to actually PLAY on brainstorm).

 

If nothing else, Brainstorm seems like the ideal PvP environs, due to how you can instantly complete your build, with everyone also having that ability (as opposed to temporal warriors, who need a non-pvp toon to bankroll their pvp exclusivity lifestyle)

[Sneakers]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

 

If the buff says it will award double xp, then it should award double xp. If it isn't awarding double xp, something is wrong.

 

If you want more, it may be worth putting in a suggestion so that a higher xp multiplier can be implemented properly.

 

I don't necessarily agree with you. Traditionally the little hidden things in video games were some of the coolest parts of them. 

Even the original Mario had secret and very profitable areas which you wouldn't know about unless you found them by accident.

 

When Diablo 2 first arrived you could cast bone walls outside of town. Return to town and talk to Akara then wait for the bone walls to break.

When they did they would drop loot like you defeated Daiblo x2. 

Clearly this was not just a bug. Once enough players found out about it they patched the trick and it was gone.

They continued to patch these kinds of things until you couldn't produce items anymore. At that point people began selling them instead for real money.

Why? Because they were not easily obtained and readily available.

The value of them went up and suddenly people were jumping at the chance to buy them for real money.

[Snarky]

Yes, in the movie “Ready Player One” one of the keys was solved by knowledge that the point of video games can be just wandering about in them. 
 

Now, I am not trying to infer whoever fixed this was some soulless corporate policy wonk who despises  people having fun

 

Still, it makes you think about things and wonder about our role in each other’s existences.  
 

Or not

Edited October 14, 2022 by Snarky

[Ghost]

I’m curious - what would the reaction have been if they found out the XP boost was giving just under double XP instead of 3x.

Would those of you who said it shouldn’t be fixed, say the same thing?

[MistressOhm]

45 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I’m curious - what would the reaction have been if they found out the XP boost was giving just under double XP instead of 3x.

Would those of you who said it shouldn’t be fixed, say the same thing?

 

Dingdingding. 

 

Do you know what the gaming industry calls a bug that benefits those that know about it and use it actively without saying anything? 

 

An exploit.

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, Ghost said:

I’m curious - what would the reaction have been if they found out the XP boost was giving just under double XP instead of 3x.

Would those of you who said it shouldn’t be fixed, say the same thing?

Honestly, I wouldn't say a thing. Because the error would be in my favor. 

BUT - if they said, "Hey, we found this error. It's not going to change the way you do anything, should we spend time to fix it?" I'd say "Don't bother". 

Regardless of the rate of XP, people are going to do the same things, they'll just level at a different rate. For most folks, yeah, faster is better. Some days, I'm not so sure what the rush is to get all the XP, and other days, I groan at having to earn another level because I'm having a clear hole in my build, like needing another slot in stamina, or needing more defense or some other attribute. 

[Coyotedancer]

*shrugs*

 

I'm not going to begrudge bug fixes on either side of the issue. Advantage, disadvantage, whatever.  Sorry if that doesn't fit the narrative you want to build about us evil, crybaby farmers, Ohm.