AM&TW: Quantumania

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

 

Here we go. The new era begins... with Epic Trailer Elton John?

Spoiler

• Scott is enjoying being an Avenger. Including, it seems, going to (Marvel?) movie premieres. It just doesn't seem to sit right with him.
• Oh you darn kids, messing with Primal Forces You Do Not Understand...
• Wasp I / Janet Van Dyne (Pfeiffer) ran into bad things in the Quantum Realm. But what...or who?
• Lots of aliens/otherdimensional creatures, plus Pathfinder from Apex. And a cantina. Of course.
• And... Bill Murray? Apparently as a mid-level boss bad guy.
  (EDIT: from the SDCC trailer, Janet/Pfeiffer knows him). But that's just a taste of the threat, before we get to...
• ...our first proper look at Jonathan Majors' Kang The Conqueror, his palace/base, and multidimensional invasion fleet. Shiny.
• Kang needs help from our heroes. But what exactly? In a quote from the SDCC-only trailer, as reported: "You're an interesting man, Scott Lang. You've lost a lot of time. But time, it isn't what you think... It's not a straight line. But I'm sure that's not exactly important to you right now. You more-than-likely want to know why I'm here, and most of all, what I want with you. I have need of your...particular skill. You've been regarded, both lauded and reviled, as a thief. And believe it or not, that's what I have need of right now. You see, someone has stolen something from me. And you, my friend, are the only one who could steal it back. So...have we an accord, Mr. Lang?"
• What does Kang mean by that? Is Scott dying? Does all that messing around with Pym Particles leave some permanent problems? Or is he referring to the years he spent trapped in the Quantum Realm while his daughter grew up?
• Also from SDCC, that quote:
  "You don't scare me. I'm an Avenger."
  "An Avenger... have I killed you before?"
• Finally... I wonder if any of the designers ever played COH, since I'm getting a lot of Shadow Shard vibes here...

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

Okay, I've known for some time that Quantumania would have a lot to do with...what else?...the quantum realm, and that HE would be in the movie (no not Mephisto).  But this trailer went off in a hugely different direction than I was thinking.

 

I suppose I should mention up front that I've not seen every work in Phase 4 of the MCU, so there may be details in the overall story arc of the MCU of which I'm not currently aware.

 

Responses in hidden field in orange.

20 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Here we go. The new era begins... with Epic Trailer Elton John?

 

  Hide contents

• Scott is enjoying being an Avenger. Including, it seems, going to (Marvel?) movie premieres. It just doesn't seem to sit right with him.
• Oh you darn kids, messing with Primal Forces You Do Not Understand...  I'll comment more on that in my own hidden box
• Wasp I / Janet Van Dyne (Pfeiffer) ran into bad things in the Quantum Realm. But what...or who?  I'll comment more on that in my own hidden box
• Lots of aliens/otherdimensional creatures, plus Pathfinder from Apex. And a cantina. Of course.  Getting a serious Guardians of the Galaxy vibe with all these weird aliens and weird environments.
• And... Bill Murray? Apparently as a mid-level boss bad guy.  The big question here is how they got him to agree to the part.  I've gotten the understanding from things I've read over the past few years that Murray has become selective (a nice word for "picky") about parts. But then they say "every man has his price".
  (EDIT: from the SDCC trailer, Janet/Pfeiffer knows him). But that's just a taste of the threat, before we get to...
• ...our first proper look at Jonathan Majors' Kang The Conqueror, his palace/base, and multidimensional invasion fleet. Shiny.  Is it Kang?  Or one of his warlord alternates?  This one bears a prominent slightly-ragged scar down the left side of his face, which as near as I can tell by looking at a lot of comic panels, Kang doesn't have.  Kang instead has clean vertical lines one per side of his face, each crossing an eye.  Tattoos?  I don't know, but it is an iconic part of his look.  They may interpret this as some sort of facemask for the MCU, perhaps.  We know from He Who Remains that the various alternates were battling each other until he gained the upper hand, sealing everything into a single timeline.  More on that in my hide box.
• Kang needs help from our heroes. But what exactly? In a quote from the SDCC-only trailer, as reported: "You're an interesting man, Scott Lang. You've lost a lot of time. But time, it isn't what you think... It's not a straight line. But I'm sure that's not exactly important to you right now. You more-than-likely want to know why I'm here, and most of all, what I want with you. I have need of your...particular skill. You've been regarded, both lauded and reviled, as a thief. And believe it or not, that's what I have need of right now. You see, someone has stolen something from me. And you, my friend, are the only one who could steal it back. So...have we an accord, Mr. Lang?"  If this is the case, I like the possibility.  We were given a demonstration that, although Lang is a bit of a man-child, he has a brilliant mind when it comes to heists.  I'd like to see that in action again, this time fighting for his family.
• What does Kang mean by that? Is Scott dying? Does all that messing around with Pym Particles leave some permanent problems? Or is he referring to the years he spent trapped in the Quantum Realm while his daughter grew up?  I suspect Kang is aware that Lang lost years in prison, and that is what he's referencing by lost time. He's holding out a carrot to Scott by suggesting Scott's perception of time as linear is wrong.  "Work for me, and your life will be extended", that sort of thing.
• Also from SDCC, that quote:
  "You don't scare me. I'm an Avenger."
  "An Avenger... have I killed you before?"
• Finally... I wonder if any of the designers ever played COH, since I'm getting a lot of Shadow Shard vibes here...  Actually, I had to wonder if they played No Man's Sky.  This guy, whom you called Pathfinder from Apex Legends, also looks modeled on some of the looks in No Man's Sky.

 

 

Some of my own thoughts:

Spoiler

• Primal Forces You Do Not Understand...  This one bugged me right out of the gate.  Cassie, who has been, apparently, on her own trying to survive for 5 years of the blip is suddenly a doctorate-level quantum physicist?  I realize she's got the two most knowledgeable quantum scientist as teachers (and the two second-most quantum-knowledgeable people as backups) but one has to go through years of foundational training to reach that level.  That is, unless one belongs to the MCU, apparently.
• Did Janet Van Dyne originally run into bad things in the Quantum Realm, or was that part of the reset that a pair of Lokis unleashed on MCU existence? I find it very odd that she didn't at least tell Hank Pym that there was a terrifyingly powerful army on one of the levels of the quantum realm waiting for a chance to reach the surface world.  "Don't go there again" might be something one would need to communicate...quickly.
• Assuming for the moment that this is indeed THE Kang, it makes a lot of sense to park and build your massive army and armada on a plane of the quantum realm.  Your enemies will be far less likely to find you, and with the MCU interpretation of "quantum", one would be able to jump to different times, and presumably therefore, different alternate timelines/universes with relative ease.  I guess the MCU is interpreting the quantum realm as an underlying mesh or web that connects the alternate existences.
• Cassie has her Pym armor.  I'm not sure why they created it for a teen, except for story necessity, but she's now primed for becoming Stature/Sting.
• Ant-Man stories always play fast and loose with physics, but they've previously stated that part of the reason for the suits is oxygen.  Changing size means you have to have something to change the size of oxygen molecules or you cannot breathe, as the size doesn't match.  Of course this whole story is the massive quantum magic handwave in action here, so everyone can breathe in the quantum realm.
• Where did they all get their Pym armor? Everyone in the room when the quantum event sucked them in were wearing casual clothes.  I suppose the answer is a handwave that they all had their armor shrunk and in their pockets, but still...
• We're going to get Michelle Pfeiffer as Janet Van Dyne for a full movie this time.  Seriously looking forward to that.
• Michael Douglas is looking pretty fit for a 78-year-old actor.  I'm wondering if his contract specifies top-knotch health care and Captain America-level workout training so that he will be around and kicking for a while.  Of course, being one generation from a centenarian probably helps, too.  I do wonder, though, what Marvel-Disney plans are for the character should Michael be unable to continue.  I would hope they would not retire the character like they did T'Challa, but would recast with an actor closer to Michelle Pfeiffer's age.  Then again, if Pym went out heroically like Tony Stark, fans could at least appreciate the loss.  And this is the quantum realm.  Who's to say there's not an alternate Hank Pym floating around down there? 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, Techwright said:

If this is the case, I like the possibility.  We were given a demonstration that, although Lang is a bit of a man-child, he has a brilliant mind when it comes to heists.  I'd like to see that in action again, this time fighting for his family.

 

This could indeed be fun. Current fan theory is that Scott is going to have to do something very bad to help his family. And what resembles Kang's tech most - at least visually... is/are the Ten Rings. There's also a rumour that Ms. Marvel's power bangle could be involved, though I thought that only awoke her latent mutant special abilities...

 

[Techwright]

Yet another new trailer dropped, and man, it has me more excited than anything since Endgame, with the possible exception of Spider-man: No Way Home!  The villain is clearly the big man himself, and not one of his variants. I've no idea now if all the Ant-Man family survives.

 

And is that...is that...

Spoiler

M.O.D.O.K.??  A really scary M.O.D.O.K. at 01:46, not a goofball?

 

[Ulysses Dare]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:16 PM, Techwright said:

Spoiler

M.O.D.O.K.??  A really scary M.O.D.O.K. at 01:46, not a goofball?

 

That was certainly what I thought when I saw it.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

18 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

That was certainly what I thought when I saw it.

Spoiler

MODOK is played by Corey Stoll - who played Darren "Yellowjacket" Cross from the first movie. As he got stuck in the Quantum Realm in that flick, I wonder if they're the same character, or MODOK is a Variant?

(I also like how the Kang and MODOK face shields pay tribute to the comic versions while adapting them for the movie.)

 

Not sure how this one's gonna play out, but to demonstrate Kang's power - and set up his Dynasty, we're talking a loss, pyrrhic victory, or skin-of-the-teeth temporary escape. Perma-deathing Paul Rudd (who is, of course, technically immortal) doesn't seem like a great option. But one hell of a gambit for a Marvel movie if they go for it. Then again, if you're playing around with multiple universes, alternate timelines and the fundamental wossnames of reality now, who is still dead?

 

Should be fun - and might make more sense with Loki S2 sketching in the details around it.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:34 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

  Hide contents

MODOK is played by Corey Stoll - who played Darren "Yellowjacket" Cross from the first movie. As he got stuck in the Quantum Realm in that flick, I wonder if they're the same character, or MODOK is a Variant?  That's very interesting.  With that info, I went back and re-watched the Yellowjacket "death" scene (and I never thought he was dead, just out of control) and though it is very quick, everything but his head shrinks first.  I wonder if they had this planned, or if it was just one of those inserts we've heard they do that they later go back and build upon.

Also, MODOK is usually depicted as head of A.I.M., but that group, or at least a small version of it, was used in Iron Man III.  I wonder if MCU MODOK will revive A.I.M. as a deep science wing of Kang's army.

(I also like how the Kang and MODOK face shields pay tribute to the comic versions while adapting them for the movie.)  I like that, too.  I wasn't thrilled when I saw they were using the actor's face.  Kang should be blue and with vertical lines on his face.  When I saw the face shield though...perfect.

 

Not sure how this one's gonna play out, but to demonstrate Kang's power - and set up his Dynasty, we're talking a loss, pyrrhic victory, or skin-of-the-teeth temporary escape. Perma-deathing Paul Rudd (who is, of course, technically immortal) doesn't seem like a great option. But one hell of a gambit for a Marvel movie if they go for it. Then again, if you're playing around with multiple universes, alternate timelines and the fundamental wossnames of reality now, who is still dead?  It's the timeline bits that interest me.  Depictions of Kang that I've seen before show him using a lot of time travel.  That may be one way to "dispose" of Scott: throw him into a different time.  He's a smart and resourceful master's degree engineer, but he doesn't have Hank Pym's genius level.  Putting him in a future time gives Kang the opportunity to conquer this time, then prepare to meet Ant-Man when he arrives.

 

I'm still thinking Hank will make the sacrifice play.  While his feelings on Scott remain awkward, there's no way Hank Pym is going to let Janet make the sacrifice play a second time, and no way he's going to let his daughter do it either.  That leaves Hank, Scott, and Cassie, and Hank probably sees Cassie as a surrogate granddaughter by now.  From the trailers, he appears to be training her and built her a suit after all.  It would make sense, a growth in character, a closing of a story point, if Hank finally sees Scott as family, and the one who can remain with Hope.  At that point, his decision would be clear, and his growth towards fully accepting Scott would be complete.

 

Should be fun - and might make more sense with Loki S2 sketching in the details around it.

 

Responses in orange.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Techwright

[DougGraves]

I so wish the microverse had the Micronauts.

[Hyperstrike]

Okay, I liked the first two Ant-Man films a lot.  A LOT.

So, my verdict on this?

SAVE YOUR MONEY!

FIND ANYTHING ELSE TO DO WITH YOUR TIME!

 

The thing's overloaded with CGI to the point where there's NO investment in the story.
You may as well be watching a cartoon.
The visuals are a mess.
The narrative is a mess.
The messaging is a mess.

The "Marvel Humor" has been cranked to 11 and then hooked into a stadium-sized amp (like Thor Ragnarok).

Basically if you want to just sit there, ooh and ah, and blink at various flashy lights, yeah, maybe you'll have a good time.

It's not really suitable for anything else.

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

So, my verdict on this?

Learn to use spoiler tags please!

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Learn to use spoiler tags please!

What, SPECIFICALLY, did I "spoil".

 

Quote

A spoiler is an element of a disseminated summary or description of any narrative that reveals plot elements, with the implication that the experience of discovering the plot naturally, as the creator intended it, has been spoiled. Typically, the details of the conclusion of the plot, including the climax and ending, are especially regarded as spoiler material. Plot twists are also prone to spoilers.

I revealed no plot elements, revealed characters known to be in beside those already known to be in the cast, or specific scenes.

Saying "I didn't like it" with a general breakdown of WHY, is NOT a "spoiler".

Thank you for your response.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Hyperstrike

[Greycat]

Yeah. that's not spoilery.

 

Honestly, what I'm going to say is probably more spoilery than what Hyperstrike did:

 

Yeah. Movie is supposed to be a big setup for future stuff. We know this. But ... ok, some is interesting, the rest *feels* like "We're setting things up."

 

Mind you, I enjoyed the 2 1/2 hours of diversion.  It wasn't mindblowing. It didn't *really* leave me feeling "Oh, that was awesome!" or whatnot. It gave me an excuse to kick back and eat popcorn (well, pretzel bites in my case.)

 

One character is both "Hey, look, it's him! Kinda cool!" and one step away from being the humor equivalent of a fart joke. That character should've either been treated better (with more of a backstory,) or held off on and put in somewhere else. They ended up being utterly disposable as far as movie plot, or even subplot. They kind of fell seriously flat.

 

Honestly, so did the post-big-fight bit. Watching it will make which "post fight bit" obvious.

 

Verdict - not bad. not my favourite. Certainly better than the ... what was it, eternals was it? but that's *not* a high bar.

[Hyperstrike]

48 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Verdict - not bad. not my favourite. Certainly better than the ... what was it, eternals was it? but that's *not* a high bar.

See illustration for "low bar".

I think 96 straight hours of dental work WITHOUT PAINKILLERS would be better than The Eternals.

[biostem]

I just miss the absurdity of everyday objects being made very small or much larger than we're used to seeing them, like the Thomas the Tank Engine toy in the first movie, or the ant being made dog-sized...

[Techwright]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:06 PM, Hyperstrike said:

See illustration for "low bar".

I think 96 straight hours of dental work WITHOUT PAINKILLERS would be better than The Eternals.

I am SO GLAD I opted not to watch The Eternals.  Your stated opinion matches a host of others I've read.  Phase 4 already has felt largely flat to me, though with a few great moments, notably the Spiderman movie, but others as well.   I didn't need it to go into a deficit.  Marvel largely did fantastic with the first 3 Phases, so I'm a bit puzzled why they've felt so off in Phase 4.

 

I do wish someone would compile any bits from The Eternals that will have an impact in the overall MCU storyline and post a YouTube vid of them. Solely because I don't want to be blindsided if something related comes up later.

 

I wonder how long it will be before The Film Theorists take Quantumania to the woodshed like they did the DCEU?

 

On 2/18/2023 at 9:38 PM, biostem said:

I just miss the absurdity of everyday objects being made very small or much larger than we're used to seeing them, like the Thomas the Tank Engine toy in the first movie, or the ant being made dog-sized...

My personal favorite was the tank keychain.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

...that was the one that got me. A classic train-top fight, but on a model railway: the villain landing on the tracks, screaming in fear at his CERTAIN DOOM, under the wheels of... Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

AM&TW was... fun but didn't really go the places it could have done, especially with Hannah-John Kamen's Ghost and the mighty Laurence Fishburne on board.

 

I dig that Feige's trying to build a multiverse here and set up the arc, but the individual films still need to be fun. You can build up the plot points quite successfully yet subtly within those, giving hints that behind everything, behind the Secret Invasion, the quantum disturbances, the timeline alterations, lies the guiding hand of Lord Ne - cough - Kang. Yes. Definitely Kang. Nobody else. Couldn't be.

 

...now where did I put those TPS reports...

Edited February 20, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[InvaderStych]

4 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

AM&TW was... fun but didn't really go the places it could have done, especially with Hannah-John Kamen's Ghost and the mighty Laurence Fishburne on board.

 

All they did with HJK for Ghost was take the least interesting 1/3 of her character from Killjoys and say, "Just do that, the angsty-fighty stuff and we'll make the backstory kinda similar to what you've already been doing, we don't need the other two thirds, you know the depth, character, sardonic humor, or general confidence and capability."

 

Was really disappointed by that movie. I like HJK, she deserved a better written role.

 

But maybe that's just me. 🤣

Edited February 21, 2023 by InvaderStych

[Greycat]

20 hours ago, Techwright said:

I am SO GLAD I opted not to watch The Eternals.  Your stated opinion matches a host of others I've read. 

 

 

The Eternals is a movie that should've been a series instead. I'm not sure how they thought it would work as a movie. Big cast of characters nobody had seen before in the DCEU rushed through so nobody had time to get to know or care about who or what they were, rushing to fight off another threat nobody really had time to get any sense of build up or threat about, and done... If someone asked me to write a movie with an eye towards having it fail? It'd be The Eternals.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

The Eternals is a movie that should've been a series instead. I'm not sure how they thought it would work as a movie. Big cast of characters nobody had seen before in the DCEU rushed through so nobody had time to get to know or care about who or what they were, rushing to fight off another threat nobody really had time to get any sense of build up or threat about, and done... If someone asked me to write a movie with an eye towards having it fail? It'd be The Eternals.

DCEU?

NO WONDER THE TONE WAS SO OFF!