Capes, auras oh my

[cotesan]

Hey devs, first thank you for doing all this, best game!

I am an OG player and one thing that I never liked from back in the day is how low level characters look the same as more leveled chars. 
I remember when there were level requirements for capes then auras. For some reason that was undone. Honestly I feel part of the incentive of playing is getting these types of things unlocked. Every comic hero had pretty shabby costumes at first. 
 

i will prob get flamed at for this, but my suggestion is to not allow low level chars to have the same swag as 50+. 
 

I’m not saying to take away capes or auras but am suggesting that moving forward to add content with some requirements and not try to please everyone who whines. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by cotesan

[TheZag]

Costume requirements were removed so players could get the look for their concept without having to grind levels or vanguard merits or whatever other currency was required for costume parts.  It doesnt make sense for HeroMcHeroFace to not have his costume until he reaches full power.

 

'Hang on bad guys,  i just leveled up.  I'll be right back with the rest of my costume and then ill really lay down some justice.'

 

[cotesan]

17 minutes ago, TheZag said:

Costume requirements were removed so players could get the look for their concept without having to grind levels or vanguard merits or whatever other currency was required for costume parts.  It doesnt make sense for HeroMcHeroFace to not have his costume until he reaches full power.

 

'Hang on bad guys,  i just leveled up.  I'll be right back with the rest of my costume and then ill really lay down some justice.'

 

exactly my point. Players should reach a certain level before having access to the more polished looks and pieces of more experienced characters. Like every hero in every comic. It took time. Thanks for your opinion. 

[Rudra]

It's just as @TheZag said. Also, scarves were counted as capes because of how they worked. And there was an outcry about not even being able to have a scarf until level 20. It never made sense for characters to have to wait until level 20 to get a cape, and some character concepts rely on having immediate access to auras.

 

That said, what would you recommend be the added content with some requirements. If you're making a suggestion, let's hear what it is.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, cotesan said:

exactly my point. Players should reach a certain level before having access to the more polished looks and pieces of more experienced characters. Like every hero in every comic. It took time. Thanks for your opinion. 

No, it never took time. If a new character in a comic was supposed to wear a cape or have an aura? Then (s)he would make his/her debut with a cape and/or aura.

[cotesan]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

No, it never took time. If a new character in a comic was supposed to wear a cape or have an aura? Then (s)he would make his/her debut with a cape and/or aura.

not true at all. Heroes started out wearing hand knit customes, onsies and even pots and pans. I did make suggestions. Thanks for your opinion 

[Excraft]

5 minutes ago, cotesan said:

exactly my point. Players should reach a certain level before having access to the more polished looks and pieces of more experienced characters. Like every hero in every comic. It took time. Thanks for your opinion. 

 

For the idea, no thank you.  Bad ideas are bad.  As for the rest, which heroes didn't have their complete look from the beginning?  Most all of them had complete outfits from the get go.

 

Superman had a cape from the beginning

 

So did Batman.  Had his utility belt too.

 

Thor always had his hammer from the start

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, cotesan said:

not true at all. Heroes started out wearing hand knit customes, onsies and even pots and pans. I did make suggestions. Thanks for your opinion 

The only time new heroes wear hand-knit costumes, onsies, or other poor equipment is when the character is portrayed as coming form a poor background. And even then? Only for flashback origin stories. If a character is added to a comic, (s)he is wearing whatever the character designer wants him/her to be wearing. Every time. If that is a onesie or homemade costume? Then it is a onesie or homemade costume. If it is a bedazzled, caped, illuminated, radioactive mess? Then it is a bedazzled, caped, illuminated, radioactive mess.

[cotesan]

I appreciate your opinions on my suggestion. 
And excraft if I wanted to spend the time finding countless heroes with not as polished looks as when they matured, I could. 

i still submit my suggestion and feel it would add much value and would not harm a thing, but be a great addition. Peace

Edited November 2, 2022 by cotesan

[Excraft]

4 minutes ago, cotesan said:

And excraft if I wanted to spend the time finding countless heroes with not as polished looks as when they matured, I could. 

 

Please do.  Would love to see your list of "countless" numbers of heroes.  Like it or not, most if not all heroes (and villains) have had their finished, polished look from the start.   I don't think anyone should have their creativity limited when creating a new character.

[El D]

47 minutes ago, cotesan said:

i still submit my suggestion and feel it would add much value and would not harm a thing, but be a great addition. Peace

 

This would absolutely harm the increased creative freedom that players have been given via the removal of now pointless restrictions like this one. Also, given that HC has allowed all available costume pieces and weapon models from character creation rather than requiring badge or level unlocks, this would run directly counter to how both the devs want HC to be engaged with as well as how players actively engage with it.

 

The costume creator being open to everyone and not being arbitrarily gatelocked by level/badge requirements is one of the few things the vast majority of players see as a good thing. If someone wants 'exclusive swag' for a level 50, that's what fully IO'ed builds, end game content & badge titles, Incarnate powers, hard mode rewards, and the new hologram costumes are all for.

[Cancrusher]

3 hours ago, cotesan said:

Hey devs, first thank you for doing all this, best game!

I am an OG player and one thing that I never liked from back in the day is how low level characters look the same as more leveled chars. 
I remember when there were level requirements for capes then auras. For some reason that was undone. Honestly I feel part of the incentive of playing is getting these types of things unlocked. Every comic hero had pretty shabby costumes at first. 
 

i will prob get flamed at for this, but my suggestion is to not allow low level chars to have the same swag as 50+. 
 

I’m not saying to take away capes or auras but am suggesting that moving forward to add content with some requirements and not try to please everyone who whines. 

 

Firstly, welcome back to the game. 😁👋

 

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with making a suggestion.  No one should flame you for something that the Devs have invited us to do.

 

But, thirdly, you should know that Homecoming has departed rather broadly with the Live game features and the loyal fanbase that Homecoming has tends to like it that way (including opening up most of the costume options for everyone, from level 1).

 

Homecoming is very much about allowing each player to (within certain limits) enjoy the game the way that each player wants to enjoy it.

 

The CoH character creator is very robust, making it quite easy to craft a costume that makes your character distinct from everyone else.  I would argue that it's really your own creativity in costume design that will make your character different from all the others.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Cancrusher

[lemming]

For those who want an unpolished look, maybe we should have a terry cloth towel cape?

[weewoozesty]

I do the complete opposite here.  As my hero gets more powerful he has less clothes until I have a nearly naked man completely obliterating everything in his path at level 50.

[JasperStone]

41 minutes ago, weewoozesty said:

I do the complete opposite here.  As my hero gets more powerful he has less clothes until I have a nearly naked man completely obliterating everything in his path at level 50.

 

As it should be

 

Also ...

You can choose not to have a cape or aura at the start.

Then do the cape mission; it is still available. Level 20?

and then the Aura mission ...wait, was there one for that? level 40?

 

I need more rum...

Edited November 2, 2022 by JasperStone

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

and then the Aura mission ...wait, was there one for that? level 40?

Yes. Available at level 30 from the same contact that gives the cape mission. The Goldbricker red side and the City Hall rep blue side.

[Alchemystic]

As far as I know, this isn't a change made by the Homecoming team.

 

Before the live client of City of Heroes came to a close, the game dipped into the world of microtransactions and subscription rewards, amongst them was a purchasable 'Cape Access' and 'Aura Access' upgrades to your account, making these costume items accessible on any character from level 1 onwards.

 

Now, considering that HC and any other server aren't permitted to profit from the City of Heroes IP, it was decided that all items from the Veteran Awards scheme and the Paragon Market must be made available to the player as default to avoid any potential legal issues down the line, and to ensure people didn't feel cheated out of purchases they may have made while on the live client.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Tyrannical

[Zeraphia]

6 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

As far as I know, this isn't a change made by the Homecoming team.

 

Before the live client of City of Heroes came to a close, the game dipped into the world of microtransactions and subscription rewards, amongst them was a purchasable 'Cape Access' and 'Aura Access' upgrades to your account, making these costume items accessible on any character from level 1 onwards.

 

Now, considering that HC and any other server aren't permitted to profit from the City of Heroes IP, they chose to make all items from the Veteran Awards scheme and the Paragon Market available to the player as default to avoid any potential legal issues down the line, and to ensure people didn't feel cheated out of purchases they may have made while on the live client.

This is what I thought happened as well, and for this exact reason, I think this alone should probably warrant shutting down the suggestion in addition to the well... obvious unpopularity...

[cotesan]

2 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

This is what I thought happened as well, and for this exact reason, I think this alone should probably warrant shutting down the suggestion in addition to the well... obvious unpopularity...

youre funny. And you are who?

either way I came back after receiving notifications. Wow make a suggestions and the trolls arise. Anywhooo. 
read my post BEFORE commenting please. 
I said I’m not advocating taking away anything, I said moving forward… i still think its a good idea, would only add to the game and would not harm anything. Submitting , peace and trollmeat. No more from me. Thanks again devs. 

[Zeraphia]

56 minutes ago, cotesan said:

youre funny. And you are who?

either way I came back after receiving notifications. Wow make a suggestions and the trolls arise. Anywhooo. 
read my post BEFORE commenting please. 
I said I’m not advocating taking away anything, I said moving forward… i still think its a good idea, would only add to the game and would not harm anything. Submitting , peace and trollmeat. No more from me. Thanks again devs. 

Uh...

 

Okay, assuming no ill intentions here and this isn't in fact a troll post/account yourself, what I'm referring to is basically if the devs decided to keep the P2W features accessible to the community and removed paywalls (by definition of the structure of HC, they cannot receive profits), reinstalling a paywall feature could potentially violate the contract they'd have. That in fact sir, does harm things. 

 

I read your post, it's not long or hard to read. People simply do not like this suggestion. I cannot find even a single post of support for this suggestion. 

 

We are not trolling you, we are not calling you names, we are simply disagreeing with your suggestion. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Zeraphia

[biostem]

6 hours ago, cotesan said:

I feel part of the incentive of playing is getting these types of things unlocked. Every comic hero had pretty shabby costumes at first.

You are fully able to run those cape and aura missions as you see fit, limiting your own characters' costumes until they complete those tasks.  It is also not always the case that all heroes have shoddy costumes at first - a lot depends upon that character's background.  Further, it doesn't necessarily fit that each character would need to take part in the particular tasks given to unlock capes or auras...

[cotesan]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:37 PM, Excraft said:

 

Please do.  Would love to see your list of "countless" numbers of heroes.  Like it or not, most if not all heroes (and villains) have had their finished, polished look from the start.   I don't think anyone should have their creativity limited when creating a new character.

I decided to reply to your comment and will give you the only example needed. Statesman. 

[El D]

17 minutes ago, cotesan said:

I decided to reply to your comment and will give you the only example needed. Statesman. 

 

 

More seriously though, this is one of those 'self imposed' things. As @biostem and @JasperStone said, if someone doesn't want their character to have a polished hero costume at level 1, a cape before level 20, or aura before level 30 then they can just... not use them until after they run those missions, which still exist and are freely accessible by everyone. That's a perfectly serviceable way to interact with and play the game if that's what a player chooses to do, which was the entire point - this is deliberately offered up to individual player choice rather than left as a blanket restriction on everyone because not every player would want to play that way.

 

IMO, there's never really been a sense of accomplishment to earning a cape or an aura anyway. It's a single, one-off mission players were forced to do to unlock access to, as far as superhero designs are concerned, two incredibly standard arrays of options. At least, until the Paragon Market came around and you could buy a pass to have capes/auras at level 1. Sure, there was a lore justification for it but that was just put in to explain why the Live devs required a mission to 'earn' them in the first place (and explain why capes/auras didn't exist when the game first came out, because they didn't have the tech until Issue 2).

[Zect]

One of the charms of CoH in its early days was the idea of the "hero's journey" - that you start off as a rookie, grow in stature and experience, and become a renowned champion. The hero that started off fighting street toughs and gang bangers would go on to discover megacorp misdeeds, unravel ancient conspiracies, battle ever mightier foes, and save the world.

 

In time, that concept was gradually chipped away by the relentless focus on powerlevelling, on rushing to endgame, on skipping to this and that. Eventually, it was abandoned entirely, and the playing field was instead given to people who would rather play dress-up. The dress-up faction is so politically powerful now that they constrain the game - I suspect one reason HC does not offer cosmetic bragging rights rewards, for example, is because the above faction demands access to every costume piece from the moment of character creation.

 

As someone who enjoys both, I'm frankly ambivalent. I appreciate the possibilities of having capes and auras, and other costume pieces, at character creation. A lot of my designs wouldn't look right at level 1 without something as simple as a scarf or aura (try making a convincing ghost without one, for example). And thankfully I no longer have to do all my costume brainstorming on the one specific alt that has every piece unlocked. At this point, restoring the old requirements would just further disadvantage people who are not powerlevelling and take more than 1 run of an AE farm to get their desired look. It shouldn't be done.

 

However, I'd also support restoring the game experience of those who enjoyed the hero's journey. A game mode that gives extra rewards for players who play under the old restrictions, perhaps also with restrictions on leveling speed or the order the content must be done in, would help them enjoy their desired playstyle without being excessively disadvantaged. It was taken from us, and we'd like it returned.

[cotesan]

1 hour ago, El D said:

 

 

More seriously though, this is one of those 'self imposed' things. As @biostem and @JasperStone said, if someone doesn't want their character to have a polished hero costume at level 1, a cape before level 20, or aura before level 30 then they can just... not use them until after they run those missions, which still exist and are freely accessible by everyone. That's a perfectly serviceable way to interact with and play the game if that's what a player chooses to do, which was the entire point - this is deliberately offered up to individual player choice rather than left as a blanket restriction on everyone because not every player would want to play that way.

 

IMO, there's never really been a sense of accomplishment to earning a cape or an aura anyway. It's a single, one-off mission players were forced to do to unlock access to, as far as superhero designs are concerned, two incredibly standard arrays of options. At least, until the Paragon Market came around and you could buy a pass to have capes/auras at level 1. Sure, there was a lore justification for it but that was just put in to explain why the Live devs required a mission to 'earn' them in the first place (and explain why capes/auras didn't exist when the game first came out, because they didn't have the tech until Issue 2).

I appreciate your opinion but this suggestion of mine did not include necessarily revoking auras or capes, it was moving forward with additional costumes etc. this way the instant gratification crowd could continue as is as well as the people who are into the journey that @Zect mentioned, which many of us do enjoy. Anyway thank you again devs for listening. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by cotesan