Suggestions around Staff Fighting Set

[-Kobi-]

Now that page 5 has passed and corrected what for me was a priority, namely sentinel/mastermind, and brought its share of interesting ideas on sets like fire/axes, I would like to discuss with you on a line that has been close to my heart for a long time, namely staff fighting.
I'll mainly talk about the tank/brute/scrap line, as i'm not a stalker player, but stalker set got really interesting idea to improve the line.

 

General comment

Staff fighting is, according to my interpretation, a relatively defensive line: no build up, rather weak ST attacks, a lot of AOE, mitigation with KD/KU a system of combos allowing to buff the player or debuff the enemy. The line is now mainly played by tanks who take advantage of the enlarged aura of attacks to do damage over a large area and taunt on the way, and stalkers, who have their own version, more focused around ST damages.
The set is currently poorly represented by its damage below several lines, and the frigidity of its gameplay. However, some improvements are possible in my opinion.

Redraw

The forced redraw is the main problem of the line currently. Just like the soldiers of arachnos, this makes the line horribly fixed around its attacks without being able to count on other pools and in particular the epic ones. Unfortunately this contributes greatly to the lack of damage in the set and makes the gameplay quite poor if you don't want to lose a second between each switch. Currently, speaking of Epics,  only physical perfection or darknest night seem to be "correct" choices in view of a fluid game without delay in the attack cycle

On the armor set, it forces player to favor lines without clicky powers or a few (Stone/Invul/WP/Dark/SR), always with the aim of losing a minimum of time. In the end the gameplay remains quite frigid at present.

Would be a good thing to obtain a "no redraw" version of animations, considering the few animations related to this set in the game (hi Dream doctor)

 

Staff Mastery

Staff mastery is the line's own combo system, which you can choose to skip or not on Tank/brute/scrap version, and allows you to choose a bonus whose nature will vary according to the finisher of the combo.

Form of the body: - res enemy, +damage +res for the player
Form of the soul: - enemy def, +stamina reduction +regen/recovery for player
Form of the mind: movement penalty for the enemy, recharge reduction and accuracy bonus for the player

It also bring some extra damages at the end of the combo.

In theory, this system makes it possible to adapt to each situation according to the context, bonuses and needs of the team. In practice, of the few players I know playing the set, 99% use the form that gives damage and lowers enemy resistance.

I personally used form of the soul during my leveling but after that most players are looking for extra damage to compensate for the lack of base damage in the set

My suggestion: take inspiration from the stalker set and make the power inherent by adapting the bonuses to the AT that uses it. tanks and brutes could have a more defensive version with a slight absorb bonus. stalkers/scrappers might get extra %crit.

Build-up : 

If Staff mastery become inherent, adding Build Up instead for tank/brute/scrap seems a good option to increase damage set.

Overall damages:

The line lacks damage, especially on its single-target attacks. a slight dps boost would make the line more popular. We could enjoy the new mechanics implemented on the Axe set like the attraction.
For example, serpent's reach is assumed to be the long range attack in the set. why not add a component to attract the enemy towards you? somewhat in the style of Scorpion in Mortal Kombat "get over here!"

 

I think these few adjustments could go a long way towards improving the set and its popularity. Far beyond breakdancing on commande
I will be delighted to discuss with you the vision you have of the set and how you can improve it. Also having stalker returns, knowing that I don't play the AT.
 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Kobiboom

[Astralock]

I agree with the redraw.  However, I definitely do not agree with making Staff Mastery inherent.  I like the flexibility it currently provides.  One build of mine skips Hasten, and so I use Form of the Mind for the extra +recharge.  Taking that option away would limit choice.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Astralock

[-Kobi-]

I understand your point about flexibility. Myself in my build I do not use hasten. But considering the value of the buff (+15% with 3 stacks), is it really  worth   in your playstyle?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Kobiboom

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Kobiboom said:

The forced redraw is the main problem of the line currently.

 

The effects of redraw are purely psychological.  BAB revised the animation system more than ten years ago, so animation times with and without a weapon drawn are identical.  It was tested and proven to work back then, and it was tested on these servers and proven to still be true recently.

 

 

4 hours ago, Kobiboom said:

My suggestion: take inspiration from the stalker set and make the power inherent by adapting the bonuses to the AT that uses it. tanks and brutes could have a more defensive version with a slight absorb bonus. stalkers/scrappers might get extra %crit.

 

My main isn't a Staff/Willpower brute because I wanted more damage mitigation.  I could've gotten that with a different secondary.  And if I wanted Build Up, I would've made a stalker, not a brute, or, again, used a different secondary with another means of increasing damage output.

 

There's nothing wrong with Staff Fighting.  It's a good middle-of-the-road melee set that trades off some single-target damage for more AoE damage.  It's not Energy Melee, but it's also not Kinetic Melee, and it doesn't need to be changed.  Certainly not in a way that would make it almost identical to the stalker variant.  If you want stalker Staff Fighting, play a stalker.

[-Kobi-]

59 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

The effects of redraw are purely psychological.  BAB revised the animation system more than ten years ago, so animation times with and without a weapon drawn are identical.  It was tested and proven to work back then, and it was tested on these servers and proven to still be true recently.

 

 

 

 

 

This is really interesting, i didn't know anything about theses tests. thx for letting me know. Indeed, the psychological aspect is really strong.

[weewoozesty]

Yes, give us staff mastery and give it to ranged classes! I agree!

 

I want to give my water blaster a staff/broom/mop to create the janitor from hell.  A fed up school janitor who's cleaned up one too many clogged toilets.  

[MHertz]

It should really be renamed altogether. I propose we call the set “stickbonking.”

[weewoozesty]

4 hours ago, MHertz said:

It should really be renamed altogether. I propose we call the set “stickbonking.”

I just want the Halberd that is in Staff to be given to Titan Weapons.  As it stands the halberd skin for the weapon does not feel or behave like much of a polearm/poleaxe.  While Titan Weapons would to some degree with the thrusts and sweeps etc contained in the set.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

On 11/6/2022 at 5:51 AM, -Kobi- said:

My suggestion: take inspiration from the stalker set and make the power inherent by adapting the bonuses to the AT that uses it. tanks and brutes could have a more defensive version with a slight absorb bonus. stalkers/scrappers might get extra %crit.

 

I'm definitely noticing a distinct lack of crits on my scrapper. I'm told Dots don't really crit and staff is very dot heavy. A bonus to crit on T9 like other weapon powers have would assist in boosting damage

[Luminara]

56 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

I'm definitely noticing a distinct lack of crits on my scrapper. I'm told Dots don't really crit and staff is very dot heavy. A bonus to crit on T9 like other weapon powers have would assist in boosting damage

 

DoTs don't crit in DoT form, the crits are a single application of damage.  And Staff attacks, including Guarded Spin, Innocuous Strikes and Eye of the Storm, have the same 5% crit chance as other scrapper primary attacks.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

Agree 100%, staff needs just a little more love. I hope this gains more traction.

[BrandX]

I don't feel Staff Mastery should lose it's Masteries.  Stalker lose it, that's fine, it's Stalkers and they lose unique build ups for regular build ups as part of their AT.

 

Could have the one form give more +RCH, to maybe encourage it's use more?  However, I couldn't say what's a good amount to do so, without going to far.

 

I do know, I like the 10% Resist my Stalker is forced to give with Form of Body on auto 🙂

[General Idiot]

The only change I want for Staff is to have the original sound effects back. The current ones sound so wimpy in comparison and I've always wished they never got changed even if the live devs were probably right that originally it sounded too heavy for what it is.

[Spaghetti Betty]

15 minutes ago, General Idiot said:

The only change I want for Staff is to have the original sound effects back. The current ones sound so wimpy in comparison and I've always wished they never got changed even if the live devs were probably right that originally it sounded too heavy for what it is.

Try typing /loudstacking 1 to get the old aoe sounds back

[General Idiot]

2 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Try typing /loudstacking 1 to get the old aoe sounds back

In the case of Staff that's not the issue. For a short while after release way back on live it used to have entirely different sound effects that had way more weight to them than the current ones do. And the current ones are fine, I just liked the old ones better.