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Stats on TF completion


Gerswin
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I'm not sure if there is any code for this, but I think it would be very useful for personal use. Upon TF or trial completion, in addition to the time spent and player defeats, there would be a link to "Advanced stats"  Here, the following stats would be reported:

-Total damage delivered

-average accuracy (total hits/rolls)

-% of team damage

-HP healed

-total damage taken

-total incoming damage

-# of insps used

-total (team) mobs defeated

-total (individual) mobs defeated

 

If this code could be used, then some bonus rewards/badges could be linked to player achievements.  I just love the idea of creating a "baseball card" that shows off what different types of teams and builds and playstyles are able to do.

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While the stats themselves would be very interesting to see, and could even be useful feedback for fine-tuning a build, I don't like how this could open us up to elitism.  I've been on too many MMOs (and other games) where group leads would look through player stats and/or equipment lists before adding them to a party or raid (one of them even mentioned a specific armor piece as being mandatory for the raid he was forming.  It drops in that raid, and was why I was trying to join it.)

 

If this were implemented, I'd definitely like these stats to be only visible by the player that earned them, with no rewards/badges associated with them.  Definitely no badges. I do *not* want to try to get a primary healer badge on my main (Archery/Ice/Fire Blaster). And on the reward side, could you even balance support rewards for stuff like an Empath vs. a bubbler vs. a controller or dom? 

 

That said, your "baseball card" idea for showing off team accomplishments could be really fun, and there'd likely be some (well-earned) bragging rights threads over them here on the forums. I would also add the following metrics added to your stat spread:

- Damage mitigated (from buffs.)  The game already partially keeps track of this, as we get "Avoided" over our heads whenever an attack misses because of a Luck inspiration.

- Damage prevented (through CCs) <- this would be very hard to code, if not impossible.

- % of Enemies CC'd (by rank, and as a percentage of fight time.) As an example, if there's 3 EBs in the TF, and only one's held for 3/4 of their fight, there would be a 25% here.

- Number of teammates saved (either through retaking aggro, healing, CC, or providing a buff that lets them survive when they wouldn't have.  And yes, defeat is a CC here.)

- Venge bait moments (much more subjective, and just for fun.)  Almost all of us have jumped in at least once when we really shouldn't have. I'd only count this if you jump a group and die very quickly (within 5s of combat starting), and your team doesn't manage to engage within that time. 

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If this were *optional* and *only visible to the player,* maybe. I mean, we do track stats for things (or used to - apparently the kiosks tracking things took more behind the scenes horsepower than we think.)

 

I'm frankly *against* any sort of bonus, other than a badge (which we get already for some of this) being given, as this would discriminate *heavily* against some powersets and/or ATs. Bonus for damage dealt or percentage of team damage? Why would I bring my controller to anything if I knew I had far less of a chance of a reward than the IO'd out brute that goes rushing off to kill the other half of the map? Why would I bring a sonci or rad, when there's no way to "credit" them for lowering enemy resistances (and making them easier to kill) and knowing they'd get less out of the TF?

 

So... yeah, as optional and with no rewards other than potentially badges? Sure.

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Agreed. It should be an option, not an automatic thing. And it should definitely not be visible to anyone else other than the opted in character, and only in relation to the opted in character and what (s)he/it did. No new badges for any of it though. You want bragging rights between characters? Sure. I'm with @Akisan on this. If it is open to others to view, review, and screen for, then you open the game up to elitism. I haven't seen players like that on CoX, at least not since before shut down, but I have in other games.

 

(Not going to get into who I saw being this way back on Live, because that is just a wholly unnecessary argument to be dredging up.)

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I agree that it should only be stats for the character viewing. I really wanted something like this because it would allow the devs to crowdsource some data mining. Personally,  I am very interested in comparing the damage mitigation afforded by soft control like slows and knockdown. As far as badges/rewards I had in mind things like "Defeat 90% of mobs in Aeon TF" for the "Very thorough" badge or something like that.

 

Alternately, I would love a third party type app that can read and organize combat logs into a database where stats similar to the ones above could be calculated. I don't have the time or technical skills to put something like that together by myself, but I have a pretty good idea how it could work.

 

 

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I can't remember what game it was - I wanna say either Champions Online or possibly the first Guild Wars, that used to display damage done by each player at the end of an event - I find that only displaying raw statistics without any context or further details can result in some players/ATs/powersets being discriminated against if others see low rankings in such displays.  For instance, if a kin user is buffing people's damage by a large margin because of fulcrum shift or siphon power, then shouldn't they get at least part of the credit for that damage?  I doubt such stat displays would or could account for those buffs...

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In general this suggestion opens too much for risk to have bad inter-player relations, the data gained from it would be essentially useless or questionable at best since individual interpretation of what the data truly is will vary. Badges for this, not a good idea at all, for the challenge for accomplishment would vary based on the badge and the arch type, would rather not get stressed over this with my Defender trying to get these badges.

 

I would prefer the very limited developer time be invested in something else than this.

 

Hugs

 

Sue

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21 hours ago, Gerswin said:

As far as badges/rewards I had in mind things like "Defeat 90% of mobs in Aeon TF" for the "Very thorough" badge or something like that

 

I could see a few defeat most/all badges being added here and there.  Would definitely have to be careful though, some of those could end up as a real slog to get (like trying that in the MLTF, no thank you...)

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This is a great suggestion on all fronts. Numbers, as objective measurements of truth, are valuable; there should be more of them where possible.

 

That said, the moral panic about "elitism" is amusing. Here's a more rational take: paranoia about elitism is grossly overblown in most MMO's and especially in CoX. Here, you can already see what powers and IO's people have before even starting a TF, and the highest tier of incarnate power they have crafted, yet this elitism is nowhere to be seen. It is far less of a concern than people make it out to be, and not one at all in CoH.

 

More importantly, viewing other players' performance numbers is vital to the utility of this feature. Numbers are worse than meaningless without a scale of reference. I have no idea whether 100 dps is high or low, nor how high nor how low, unless I can compare it against the dps output of other characters.

 

In practice, the real reason people are averse to seeing performance numbers is not "elitism", but egotism: they are afraid that the cold, hard facts will reveal themselves to be less stellar players than their imagination makes them out to be. For the sakes of such players, perhaps an optional feature to hide the facts can be added. This would preserve their ego, while not taking anything away from those of us who value truth and data.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Zect said:

In practice, the real reason people are averse to seeing performance numbers is not "elitism", but egotism: they are afraid that the cold, hard facts will reveal themselves to be less stellar players than their imagination makes them out to be. For the sakes of such players, perhaps an optional feature to hide the facts can be added. This would preserve their ego, while not taking anything away from those of us who value truth and data.

I don't think you have any basis to assert things as strongly as you are.  That being said, why not address the point I brought up - if I buff YOUR damage, then shouldn't I get at least some of the credit for the damage you do?  If I debuff the enemy's damage resistance, thereby allowing YOU to deal more damage, shouldn't I get a nod for that?  If I keep you alive via heals and shields, shouldn't I get some credit for that?  Those are the reasons why raw numbers are not a good measure of things, and would only go to prop-up direct damage dealers over those that bring more to the table...

Edited by biostem
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7 hours ago, Zect said:

In practice, the real reason people are averse to seeing performance numbers is not "elitism", but egotism: they are afraid that the cold, hard facts will reveal themselves to be less stellar players than their imagination makes them out to be. For the sakes of such players, perhaps an optional feature to hide the facts can be added. This would preserve their ego, while not taking anything away from those of us who value truth and data.

In practice, the reason people would mainly want this is for egotism. "How does my damage compare to everyone elses? I didn't do the most damage?! Okay, I need to improve my damage some more." In CO, at the end of whatever they called their version of TFs, they posted the names and damage of every player in the team. And I'd watch as the high score players mocked and belittled the low score players, who by the way, were busy keeping the high score players alive. So it does happen. or at least it did in the game where I saw something like this in use.

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Stats are interesting but there's a lot of areas that ATs do not compete and even within powersets. As mentioned there isn't a way to track extra damage from -res or -def and there can be some radical swings in that area especially before people have enhancements.

 

An alternative I would like to see would be the gold/silver/bronze changed to what completion rates are actually maybe 90th/75th/50th percentile.

 

This is an interesting idea but I don't think it fits the game design very well unlike something like vermintide which everyone is doing the same thing with different flavor.

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I'm not sure how, but there is a method to track this, probably with a 3rd party tracker.  I was once assigned to be the "rock teleporter" in a Hami raid, and a player new to the raid and server was tracking league damage and calling me out as not participating because my damage was at zero.  Minor drama ensued while the league leaders explained my role and this new player argued, and back and forth.  

 

However, lots of other multiplayer games have an end-of-mission scorecard and I've only ever looked at those as a "cool, I did well this round" or "hmm I should pick it up."  You know, personal growth and all.  There's definitely potential for griefing though, and I'm not sure why a volunteer staff would even start down that road.

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Personally I'm a messed up in the head, I love data, it's just the way my brain is wired, so I'm open to the idea of TF Stats.

 

That said as far as elitism goes, I don't mind it because I'm pretty damn competitive. I was in a two expansion battle with another warlock on wowdps back in the day where we stirred each other on to push it ever further. Hell ended up becoming friends with the guy. I train MMA and spar weekly.

 

That said, I get theirs people that don't feed off of competition like me, so I'm alright with the stats being just for the player themselves, but let's face it we all know just playing the in a TF if one or a couple people stand out and can handle the whole TF by themselves so there's no real secret to who may have outperformed who.

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