Def/res slotted scrapper vs DPS slotted tanker

[Dark Juggernaut]

This was something I was curious about.

 

If you take a tanker and focus your slotting mainly on doing extra damage then you take a scrapper and focus its slotting on defence/resists, which do you think would end up the stronger charecter for solo content?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Dark Juggernaut

[PoptartsNinja]

This is too definition-dependent to be answerable, so: it depends. I'm assuming you're looking for a mix of survivability and damage, and the ability to solo at +4/x8?

 

In that case, the answer becomes powerset dependent but scrappers, tankers, and brutes are all pretty equally capable of running solo +4/x8 if they feel like it.

 

Defense sets tend to be stronger on scrappers since they have the same soft cap as tanks, while resist sets tend to be stronger on tankers because 90% is more than 75%. There are a small number of attacks in the game that are auto-hit that negate defense-based sets; and there are a small number of attacks that deal untyped damage that bypass all resistances; but both are only really common in endgame team- or league-based content and aren't things you'll usually encounter solo.

 

The key to remember is that building a tank for damage doesn't preclude the tank from having strong defenses; and building a scrapper for defense doesn't mean it's not also built for damage. Ideally you want to be doing both.

 

What's more important than looking at attack and defense values are looking at and comparing the utility tools in the sets you're considering soloing with. Powersets with built-in health and/or end-management tools tend to be more solo friendly than powersets without. For example: Due to its higher innate defense debuff resistance, Super Reflexes is probably the stronger powerset in teams that can help SR manage endurance; while Ninjutsu's built-in end management and heal means Nin has an easier time recovering from an unlucky streak when soloing. Likewise, Electric Armor's ability to casually cap all resistance types except Negative and Toxic is very powerful, but the long cooldown on Energize means it has a harder time recovering from chip damage than Radiation Armor which has much stronger and faster-recharging health management tools.

[biostem]

46 minutes ago, Dark Juggernaut said:

If you take a tanker and focus your slotting mainly on doing extra damage then you take a scrapper and focus its slotting on defence/resists, which do you think would end up the stronger charecter for solo content?

I don't think you could blanket-answer this, as powerset selection greatly influences the outcome.  Also, you need to consider things like APPs/PPPs, IOs, and even ATOs.  Also, depending upon the sets, the increased AoE size for tankers and their inherent taunt may actually make fighting groups of enemies (vs single more powerful ones) a lot easier...

Edited January 11, 2023 by biostem

[Yomo Kimyata]

My vote is going in based on if the primary/secondary of one is the same as the secondary/primary of the other and that Soul Mastery/Dark Obliteration is off the table, because that's an insta-win no-kill-me for the tanker, imo.

[Dark Juggernaut]

5 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

My vote is going in based on if the primary/secondary of one is the same as the secondary/primary of the other and that Soul Mastery/Dark Obliteration is off the table, because that's an insta-win no-kill-me for the tanker, imo.

 

Idea is the exact same powersets, whatever they may be.

 

I deliberately left the question open ended because I wanted to see the reasoning people came up with.

[Dark Juggernaut]

17 minutes ago, biostem said:

 Also, depending upon the sets, the increased AoE size for tankers and their inherent taunt may actually make fighting groups of enemies (vs single more powerful ones) a lot easier...

 

This is a very interesting take to be honest, I didn't even think of the increased AoE size but it's a very good point.

[Snarky]

Better at what?   What Armor and Attack sets?   Throw Brute into the mix…not a suggestion.   If you ignore Brutes and do not specify content and sets the thread is pretty much pissing up a rope and asking about rainfall levels…

[Erratic1]

Do not listen to Snarky. Invoking Brutes means an inevitable devolvement of the thread into how Tankers can't go back...NO WAY! WE SUFFERED LONG AND HARD AND DESERVE EVERYTHING WE HAVE NOW!!!

 

Scrappers still manage to come ahead of tankers for damage done and can be made plenty tough.

 

 

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Krimson said:

 

 

Snarky asked legitimate questions. Tanker vs Scrapper are two completely different animals with different playstyles. Though I think the OPs question can stand without adding Brutes. The real question is the goal of the build. 

 

One wonders if it has become necessary to add, "This is a joke" to comments. 

 

In any event, the person had narrowed their choices down to Tankers and Scrappers (which arguably says something, but I am not getting into that). 

[Snarky]

Fine, I will bow to the lowest common denominator stupidity of the thread.

 

I have no idea what content you want to run.  Therefore advising you in a choice would be premature.

 

Tankers are more survivable by far.  Scrappers do more damage. 

 

Precipitation depends on effort.  Go team!

[biostem]

9 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

One wonders if it has become necessary to add, "This is a joke" to comments. 

I mean, there's no intonation or way to discern intent, short of a heavy dose of skepticism or just taking everything at face value.  *YOU* could always opt to put some form of "Joking BTW" in your replies if you wanted to dispel any ambiguity...

[GM Impervium]

Since this thread is discussing differences between archetypes from a mechanical perspective, moved to the Archetypes forum. 😃

[Bionic_Flea]

I would generally say that tanker is safer and scrapper is faster, but there are builds out there that can do crazy things.

 

I personally prefer tankers and voted accordingly.

[DoctorHugh]

Valid discussion I guess, but you've used two different qualifiers, "better" and "stronger", without describing what you mean by either.

 

Is 'better' more surviveable? Is 'stronger' higher DPS? Is either of them the ability to take down a GM/AV faster, or with less chance of faceplanting?

 

Are you talking about farming speed or soloing TFs or whatever?

 

Basically, answers will boil down to "in general, it's easier to make the tanker more surviveable, and it's easier to make the scrapper do more DPS. With some exceptions. And depending on what you're doing, and how much budget you have."

[Shred Monkey]

I deduce that since you're not playing a blaster, you must be valuing survivability a lot, so therefore the answer is tanker.  (but really the answer is Blaster)

[Dark Juggernaut]

Lots of people seem to be asking what I value as 'better'. This wasn't really the point of the poll. I know very well the strengths and weaknesses of each of the classes.

 

The point was if you solely focus on developing the weaker points of each class, which ends up better off in your opinion?

 

Brutes were intentionally left out because there's too many people arguing about how Brutes are/aren't good at anything in particular right now and I didn't want that whole mess coming into another thread.

[Shred Monkey]

3 hours ago, Dark Juggernaut said:

The point was if you solely focus on developing the weaker points of each class, which ends up better off in your opinion?

 

These numbers are somewhat arbitrary, but this is how I would estimate their relative value:

 

"built for damage" scrapper =  95 damage and 50 survival

"built for survival" tank = 50 damage and 90 survival

 

"built for survival" scrapper = 80 damage and 60 survival

"built for damage" tank =  75 damage and 85 survival <-- almost as good at damage, much better survivability

 

Therefore, I believe the answer to your question is tank.  Scrappers don't close the gap on survival by very much, IMHO and to really get the most survival you're going to give up recharge and procs, which significantly hurts your damage output.  However, tankers have such over-the-top survivability that they don't really have to build for it.  Thus they can get all the damage tricks without giving up much.  I think it also depends on what powersets you choose, but assuming you choose the very best options you can for this endeavor, in my opinion, this will be your result.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Shred Monkey

[Zect]

Define "stronger".

 

That said, tankers currently have a more optimal balance of defense and offense than scrappers do. They lose some offense, but gain a vast amount of defense, compared to scrappers. That in turn allows them to solo things that are impossible or at least very difficult for scrappers to do so.

[Doomguide2005]

The one you enjoy playing more.  And that's only slightly joking.  Both can be made, then played to be very tough by most measures.  But the one that you really like is the one you'll spend the effort and time learning inside out and that investment translates into being even tougher than someone just grabbing the build off the shelf.

[nihilii]

My vote goes to Tanker, in general. I think most combos built for max dam on Tanker and max def on Scrapper would end up roughly in the same ballpark for damage, while the Tanker would still enjoy significantly greater survivability.